I think if God bothered to leave us a book about it, that would make it worthy enough of study, even if we don't exactly understand it.
Is The Antichist Here Yet?
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Cart said that all the man hours studying books on different points in the Bible....just pick one.....takes time away from being out helping the poor. Go back and read my comments. He has no idea what people do/don't do for the Lord. That's when I commented on Rev. Billy Graham, his son, Dr. Adrian Rogers, who all 3 writes books, for which I am thankful for they have a deeper understanding of Almighty God and can help us lay people learn and pass on the info. I believe that if we can get a clearer understanding through books written by men or women I trust, then we can pass that on to people while they are out doing what they can for others. I asked him twice if he's out helping the poor and sick. That has yet to be answered.
I guess I didn't explain what I meant as plainly as I thought I did. Sorry. The 2nd Coming will set up the 1000 year reign by Jesus as stated in Scripture. What I was trying to get to was look how many unsaved there will be. It's not going to be a pretty sight. I am not looking forward to this in my present human form....it will be horrific ....nothing like anything ever seen or witnessed by man. Am I looking forward to this? Is God looking forward to this? No and no! However, Jesus' enemies are our enemies. Am I looking forward to the peaceful time of the millenium? You bet! To be able to enjoy being around Jesus each and every day.....it's almost like a dream come true! To me, that is the ULTIMATE of what life is all about. My heart longs and yearns to be with my Savior each and every day. Have just got to be a bit more patient as even though we are very very close to the rapture, I don't think it will be today.....but I could be wrong.
what does any of that have to do with the time spent on pre-postism?......and what question.....you mean am I helping the sick and poor?.....yes I believe I am, not that it has anything to do with my comment that if all the time spent on pre-postism was spent on helping the sick and the poor it would have been more productive......Well, why don't you either send a letter or call Billy Graham. He was the 20th century's world wide evangelist, man of God. You can only imagine the souls that were saved because he obeyed God's calling. And, he wrote a bunch of books to explain much of what he preached. But I guess he hasn't helped the world any. It takes donations to help support the crusades. Franklin has started Samaritan's Purse, helping children worldwide. This is just one man. If you ever ask yourself what one man can do....look at Rev. Graham.
Now lets look at the life of Dr. Adrian Rogers. He was a preacher, teacher, author. Since I don't get out much anymore, and even though the man died several years ago, his sermons can still be heard on TBN every Sunday morning, and people are still getting saved. If you don't grasp it when he tells it, then you just don't grasp it.
My point is, the ones who get saved.....radically saved, like me, do what they can. My mom and sister helped out in Love's Kitchen in this city many years ago, and volunteered to deliver meals on wheels. My mom and daddy delivered tapes to the shut ins. Do you really want me to go on and on? How does it help humanity? One soul at a time.
You never answered my question.
Cart said that all the man hours studying books on different points in the Bible....just pick one.....takes time away from being out helping the poor. Go back and read my comments. He has no idea what people do/don't do for the Lord. That's when I commented on Rev. Billy Graham, his son, Dr. Adrian Rogers, who all 3 writes books, for which I am thankful for they have a deeper understanding of Almighty God and can help us lay people learn and pass on the info. I believe that if we can get a clearer understanding through books written by men or women I trust, then we can pass that on to people while they are out doing what they can for others. I asked him twice if he's out helping the poor and sick. That has yet to be answered.
no....I didn't....I was referring to one issue and one issue only and that is an issue that has no focus on better understanding God......
Obviously every culture in the world has tried to address the big questions. They are all different paths to the same end. The problem I have with Christianity is not Christianity itself, but a tendency in its adherents to exhibit a fanatical lack of intelligence when any doctrine outside of the Christian realm enters the conversation. It is arrogant to think that Christians enjoy the only ticket to salvation. You've chosen a path. You believe. It is the right path for you. Fine, just have an open mind when entering into a dialogue where someone says something that you can't reconcile with your belief system.
I keep seeing comments like "the living word of God" and realize that many of you feel that God wrote the bible. It probably makes you angry when someone like me comes along and talks about Irenaeus, the Council of Nicea, and religion as a historical means of gaining and maintaining power. The term Judeo-christian mythology probably also rubs you the wrong way. Look, it's a discussion. You can open your mind to an intellectual discussion about metaphysical issues without having it affect your faith. If your faith tells you that the Bible is the living word of God, I have no problem accepting that. If I point out that scripture was written and assembled by men, and that men often have imperfect motives, is it possible for you to accept that the message may very likely have been tampered with, and regardless of an imperfect bible there is still truth to be found within? Is it a big stretch from there to open your mind to the possibility that the Christian bible does not have a monopoly on the truth in regards to our relationship with God and our place in the universe?
See, the problem I have with someone who can't intellectually separate trying to further their understanding of the incomprehensible with their faith is the same problem I have with Islam. From a straightforward interpretation of the Quran, there is only one true path. Everyone must accept this path. There is ZERO tolerance for anything but what the Quran tells you. The Quran actually goes so far as to prescribe death for non-believers. We're better than that in 2010, aren't we?
I'm not a Christian, but Christianity is a part of my belief system. It has to be, I was raised Catholic. After years of looking elsewhere for the answers (Kundalini Yoga, Soto Zen Buddhism), I kept coming back to the intuition that there is a creator and that Christian scripture played a part in trying to come closer to him. I have many aspects of my belief system that my gut tells me are correct, and I also have a lot of empty spaces. Look, this stuff is beyond our physical plane, and equally beyond the capacity of our fleshy brains to understand while in physical form. It is enjoyable to discuss, both for historical reasons and because we all seek these answers. People feel very strongly about what they've chosen to believe. I respect that, I would like the same respect in return.
Belief in God requires blind, unquestioning faith, because he's left us here to sort this stuff out on our own with no evidence that he's really there. I don't think that means we're intended to shut down our brains and blindly take what someone else tells us is the path. He gave you the ability to think, and the point is that we each have to find and walk our own path to him. That doesn't exclude any faith, nor does it exclude being able to accept that someone else's faith isn't exactly like yours.
Ashoka (304-232BC) For all these virtues there is a common source, modesty of speech. That is to say, one must not exalt one’s creed discrediting all others, nor must one degrade these others without legitimate reasons. One must, on the contrary, render to other creeds the honour befitting them.
Probably a bad idea to make this post in a Christian forum. I am NOT trying to stir things up, but I've been following the conversation and just wanted to add my thoughts. I'm sure those of you who can't reconcile what I've expressed with your faith will pray for me
I keep seeing comments like "the living word of God" and realize that many of you feel that God wrote the bible. It probably makes you angry when someone like me comes along and talks about Irenaeus, the Council of Nicea, and religion as a historical means of gaining and maintaining power. The term Judeo-christian mythology probably also rubs you the wrong way. Look, it's a discussion. You can open your mind to an intellectual discussion about metaphysical issues without having it affect your faith. If your faith tells you that the Bible is the living word of God, I have no problem accepting that. If I point out that scripture was written and assembled by men, and that men often have imperfect motives, is it possible for you to accept that the message may very likely have been tampered with, and regardless of an imperfect bible there is still truth to be found within? Is it a big stretch from there to open your mind to the possibility that the Christian bible does not have a monopoly on the truth in regards to our relationship with God and our place in the universe?
See, the problem I have with someone who can't intellectually separate trying to further their understanding of the incomprehensible with their faith is the same problem I have with Islam. From a straightforward interpretation of the Quran, there is only one true path. Everyone must accept this path. There is ZERO tolerance for anything but what the Quran tells you. The Quran actually goes so far as to prescribe death for non-believers. We're better than that in 2010, aren't we?
I'm not a Christian, but Christianity is a part of my belief system. It has to be, I was raised Catholic. After years of looking elsewhere for the answers (Kundalini Yoga, Soto Zen Buddhism), I kept coming back to the intuition that there is a creator and that Christian scripture played a part in trying to come closer to him. I have many aspects of my belief system that my gut tells me are correct, and I also have a lot of empty spaces. Look, this stuff is beyond our physical plane, and equally beyond the capacity of our fleshy brains to understand while in physical form. It is enjoyable to discuss, both for historical reasons and because we all seek these answers. People feel very strongly about what they've chosen to believe. I respect that, I would like the same respect in return.
Belief in God requires blind, unquestioning faith, because he's left us here to sort this stuff out on our own with no evidence that he's really there. I don't think that means we're intended to shut down our brains and blindly take what someone else tells us is the path. He gave you the ability to think, and the point is that we each have to find and walk our own path to him. That doesn't exclude any faith, nor does it exclude being able to accept that someone else's faith isn't exactly like yours.
Ashoka (304-232BC) For all these virtues there is a common source, modesty of speech. That is to say, one must not exalt one’s creed discrediting all others, nor must one degrade these others without legitimate reasons. One must, on the contrary, render to other creeds the honour befitting them.
Probably a bad idea to make this post in a Christian forum. I am NOT trying to stir things up, but I've been following the conversation and just wanted to add my thoughts. I'm sure those of you who can't reconcile what I've expressed with your faith will pray for me
There are many Christians out there, including myself, that spent most of their lives searching, researching, studying, and searching for answers in other religions, other books, other theories, and finally were drawn to the Bible and Christianity because that's where the truth is.
I wasn't born a christian, I didn't become a real believer until fairly recently if you take my entire life into consideration. I went on a life long search, and this is where it led me.
Don't assume that all christians haven't questioned, and looked elsewhere first because that's simply not the truth. I was a New Ager, an Agnostic, a JW, and went through periods that just read anything metaphysical that I could get my hands on, literally hundreds of texts. Also read tons of books on quantum physics, the occult, everything and anything. I delved into all of it, but was led to the Bible and Jesus in the end through alot of heart felt sincere prayer, searching and digging.
I wasn't born a christian, I didn't become a real believer until fairly recently if you take my entire life into consideration. I went on a life long search, and this is where it led me.
Don't assume that all christians haven't questioned, and looked elsewhere first because that's simply not the truth. I was a New Ager, an Agnostic, a JW, and went through periods that just read anything metaphysical that I could get my hands on, literally hundreds of texts. Also read tons of books on quantum physics, the occult, everything and anything. I delved into all of it, but was led to the Bible and Jesus in the end through alot of heart felt sincere prayer, searching and digging.
Never said that. Said its adherents exhibited a tendency toward closed mindedness. That is not a condemnation of the entire group. Obviously there are Christians who are brilliant theological scholars, far more intelligent than I.
It probably makes you angry when someone like me comes along and talks about Irenaeus, the Council of Nicea, and religion as a historical means of gaining and maintaining power. The term Judeo-christian mythology probably also rubs you the wrong way.
Truth shouldn't make folks angry but it sometimes does. If one considers the writings of the apostolic fathers and we should, then we would understand that the practices of today's church does not resemble very much of what was taught and believed back then. Most folks do not realize the struggle especially in the 1st century. We look at Paul (apostle) and think of all the great faith and works. Little is understood concerning Paul's need to plea to Caesar as it was a political move to have Christianity moved from under the Jewish umbrella. There are things in the Bible that are manipulated for the western mind and even some verses that do not exist in original manuscripts. We need to know these things as Christians and I agree with your statement. I do know these things and yet I still believe it contains the words needed unto salvation but I don't consider myself a blind faither. It would take a fool to look at all the writings of the world as you've mentioned and say there is no good or truth in them. The choice then becomes "which do you follow" and here is where the line is usually drawn in the sand.
Truth shouldn't make folks angry but it sometimes does. If one considers the writings of the apostolic fathers and we should, then we would understand that the practices of today's church does not resemble very much of what was taught and believed back then. Most folks do not realize the struggle especially in the 1st century. We look at Paul (apostle) and think of all the great faith and works. Little is understood concerning Paul's need to plea to Caesar as it was a political move to have Christianity moved from under the Jewish umbrella. There are things in the Bible that are manipulated for the western mind and even some verses that do not exist in original manuscripts. We need to know these things as Christians and I agree with your statement. I do know these things and yet I still believe it contains the words needed unto salvation but I don't consider myself a blind faither. It would take a fool to look at all the writings of the world as you've mentioned and say there is no good or truth in them. The choice then becomes "which do you follow" and here is where the line is usually drawn in the sand.
I really appreciate that response. I really feel every Christian should expose themselves to the Gospels that didn't make the bible, particularly the Gospel of Thomas.
Rather, the Kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and
you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty
and it is you who are that poverty.
How can you not embrace that? Beautiful. I would think that passage would resonate with any person seeking God.
Yep, me too Lisa Lisa... Maitreya.. one of His many names because he is Legions.
Wow! This is quite a thread. I didn't know about it until tonight so I started from the beginning and went all the way through. There are some interesting ideas expressed here and some that I do not embrace, but that is just speaking for myself. while some posts said that man wrote the Bible and was influenced by political motivations (I am paraphrasing here) I would disagree with. While it is true the Bible was written by man I believe those men were divinely inspired and guided as to what to write, how it should be written and included in His Book. Right or wrong these are my beliefs. As for the anti-christ living among us and the comment about George Soros, he could certainly be one of satan's mouth pieces. I do not spend most of my time looking for signs of Christ's second coming, I believe it will happen when only God is ready for it to happen.
I had to go back and reread some of the posts about pre, post and "a" millennium beliefs, I am not sure I still understand what an "a" millennium believer believes in. There were lots of quotes and posts but I still find that particular belief confusing. Maybe I am just slow or something.
I am glad I came across this thread because I had not received an email for the Bible thread and thought perhaps I had not checked the box to be notified of new entries. Was there a decision made on how the Bible study we have been doing is now going to be posted and responses made to them? I may have missed that among these posts too.
Thank you for any answers you can give me, I appreciate it.
Kelly
In God We Trust
I had to go back and reread some of the posts about pre, post and "a" millennium beliefs, I am not sure I still understand what an "a" millennium believer believes in. There were lots of quotes and posts but I still find that particular belief confusing. Maybe I am just slow or something.
I am glad I came across this thread because I had not received an email for the Bible thread and thought perhaps I had not checked the box to be notified of new entries. Was there a decision made on how the Bible study we have been doing is now going to be posted and responses made to them? I may have missed that among these posts too.
Thank you for any answers you can give me, I appreciate it.
Kelly
In God We Trust
As you know, a millenium is 1000 years. Once Jesus comes back to the earth and steps on earth, he will take care of all the enemies of His and set up a reign for 1000 years. During that time, those who lived through the Tribulation time are having babies which are still born under the original sin. It is from these children that an unrest crops up, that once satan is released from his chains, he gathers these followers to make one last stand against Jesus. He doesn't make it. satan is then thrown in the lake of fire to be tormented forever. You see, satan won't be running the lake of fire....he won't have any power greater than the regular folk. And, that makes me laugh! 
SC,
I did know that a millennium is 1000 yrs but my question was what does a person who is "a-millennium" believe. I know what the "pre-millennium" and "post-millennium" people believe just not what the other one does. That was what I was and still am confused about. Does an "a-millennium" person believe that there is no rapture of Christ's Church? With all the posts it was never explained clearly, at least not to me, what this particular group of people believe about the second coming of Christ.
Kelly
In God We Trust
I did know that a millennium is 1000 yrs but my question was what does a person who is "a-millennium" believe. I know what the "pre-millennium" and "post-millennium" people believe just not what the other one does. That was what I was and still am confused about. Does an "a-millennium" person believe that there is no rapture of Christ's Church? With all the posts it was never explained clearly, at least not to me, what this particular group of people believe about the second coming of Christ.
Kelly
In God We Trust
Yea, I still don't understand it either. I need things explained really simply too. LOL! I feel dumb even saying that, but it's true~!
in short, an a-millennialist believes that Christ is going to return, Judgment Day will occur and his Kingdom will commence for eternity ......they believe that all the debate about how or when this is going to happen is irrelevant and at best, a waste of time.....perhaps the best understanding of the rapture is how your kids rush to the door to greet you when you come home from work......the fact that they rise up and greet you doesn't mean you're going back to work again for a while before you REALLY come home.....
Pre-Millennialist - This view holds that Jesus will physically come back to earth before the 1,000 reign. That He will set up His Kingdom from the throne of David and reign from a rebuilt Jerusalem ........they also believe that God will bestow upon Israel all of the unconditional promises and covenants He made with them, which will include the church (grace age) believers and the tribulation believers since we are adopted sons of Abraham.
A-Millennialist - This teaches that there will be no 1000 year reign of Christ on earth and no earthly Kingdom of God. They believe that when Jesus comes back to earth, He will take out all of the believers and eternity will begin at that moment. They also believe that Jesus bound satan when He was here the first time and that every time a believer overcomes a temptation, it is a reaffirmation of that binding. There is no Scripture that states that satan was bound by Jesus when He was here on earth. All you have to do is look around at all of the evil.
Post-Millennialist - This teaches that Jesus will not set up His earthly Kingdom until after the 1000 years as by spreading the gospel will just make the world a better place. However, this is flawed by all the wars....the world is not a better place as one can just open their eyes and see.
So, those are the differences. I personally am a pre-tribulationist and a pre-millennialist, but do your own study on the subject. This should get you started.
A-Millennialist - This teaches that there will be no 1000 year reign of Christ on earth and no earthly Kingdom of God. They believe that when Jesus comes back to earth, He will take out all of the believers and eternity will begin at that moment. They also believe that Jesus bound satan when He was here the first time and that every time a believer overcomes a temptation, it is a reaffirmation of that binding. There is no Scripture that states that satan was bound by Jesus when He was here on earth. All you have to do is look around at all of the evil.
Post-Millennialist - This teaches that Jesus will not set up His earthly Kingdom until after the 1000 years as by spreading the gospel will just make the world a better place. However, this is flawed by all the wars....the world is not a better place as one can just open their eyes and see.
So, those are the differences. I personally am a pre-tribulationist and a pre-millennialist, but do your own study on the subject. This should get you started.
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