is vaping really an "epidemic" among teens?

[Letitia]

All consequences affect the parent/parents. If you ground them you are grounded with them. Then there is the constant arguing about how it's not fair. Of course if you allow your children to act out it's the price you pay for allowing it from the beginning.

 

[Letitia]

Only childless adults and older adults are the victims. Besides they won't outlaw vaping, just tighten regulations.

 

[Letitia]

Well per the FDA, they're going to take vaping options away from adults (us) because kids are breaking the law. So that makes the kids committing the crime and adults (us) the victims. Now according to the FDA, the vaping community (us) is committing the crime by having flavors and the kids are the victims.

Except it isn't actually about the kids is it?

 

[Walee]

But doesn't the fact potatoes were gone within 2 days also prove that potatoes are more addicting than nicotine? Just trying to further illustrate my point about the scientific value of arguments used by those who go as far as to describe vaping among teens as "epidemic".

Potatoes and many other vegetables have a natural form of nicotine in them. It is a natural insecticide. Low levels of nicotine in human testing are often attributed to this.

 

[Uncle Willie]

We are becoming a country of it isn't my fault, don't blame me, you're hurting my feelings......where's my safe space.

There is no "We are becoming .." .. it is "We are Now .."

And all the rhetoric that gets dished out is a waste of energy, since the paradigm shift has already happened .. some time back, in fact ..

 

[papergoblin]

I would not advocate a record following a teen around unless the offense was of a violent or destructive nature. Those records aren't as "sealed" as one would think. Besides the still an idiot teen would blab it all over fb.

I get that but that is also why they are saying it's easier to punish adult vapers than stop underage users. So it only leaves the option of punishing the majority for the acts of a minority. Too many are making noise about the poor children, to leave status quo.

In the end it leave the FDA 2 options, strip the vaping community to it's bones or outlaw it completely, as they can't/won't leave it as is. It's a catch-22 situation, someone has to lose. The bad part is nothing they do will actually stop underage smoking or vaping. Teenagers experiment, they always have and always will.

We as vapers are becoming the proverbial whipping boy.

 

[Uncle Willie]

There is a very simple solution to the entire issue .. pattern the enforcement of age requirement after the "legal substance" market ..

 

[Letitia]

Or be intelligent and take 0nic out of the equation entirely. Studies are showing more kids are using 0nic than those that are using nic. Those that are using nic throw it the parents lap where it belongs.

 

[Letitia]

I get that but that is also why they are saying it's easier to punish adult vapers than stop underage users. So it only leaves the option of punishing the majority for the acts of a minority. Too many are making noise about the poor children, to leave status quo.

In the end it leave the FDA 2 options, strip the vaping community to it's bones or outlaw it completely, as they can't/won't leave it as is. It's a catch-22 situation, someone has to lose. The bad part is nothing they do will actually stop underage smoking or vaping. Teenagers experiment, they always have and always will.

We as vapers are becoming the proverbial whipping boy.

Again it isn't about the save the kids. They are also the whipping boy here.

 

[LAwaters]

Besides lost tax revenue, there is the Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement (TMSA). States receive money from tobacco companies. According to the CDC’s Smoking & Tobacco Use Fast Facts, in 2018 states will receive a record $27.5 billion in legal settlement money. The CDC is upset because less than 3% of that will be spent on cessation and prevention measures.

CDC - Fact Sheet - Fast Facts - Smoking & Tobacco Use

States sell bonds that are secured by future funds they will get from the TMSA. Around a month or two ago, financial analysts were raising the alarm because these bonds were in danger of defaulting if smoking rates continued to drop.

The FDA announced this “epidemic” and tobacco stocks soared.

The chain of events is not likely to be an accident, eh?

Embedded in the announcement was Gottlieb’s mention of new, innovative medical NRT’s that the FDA was involved in developing. He was excited about these new approaches. Does this mean Big Pharma is developing their own version of vape devices? We don’t know yet. But the whole thing is fishy.

 

[LAwaters]

Here’s why “epidemic” is being constantly tossed about:

https://lbbonline.com/news/anti-vaping-ad-from-darren-aronofsky-is-sure-to-get-under-your-skin/

This ad was already in the can by the time of Gottlieb’s statement. It’s directed by Darren Aronofsky. Beware if you go read the article - it will raise your blood pressure.

All of this was clearly planned. Whatever their endgame is, the vaping community needs to find ways to keep the discussion away from these straw man, buzz word infested debate swamps. They are outmaneuvering us by controlling the parameters of the debate.

 

[HauntedMyst]

is vaping really an "epidemic" among teens?

No. Some people saw their tobacco stocks going down and waved a flag on vaping as a way to raise them.

 

[HauntedMyst]

Here’s why “epidemic” is being constantly tossed about:

https://lbbonline.com/news/anti-vaping-ad-from-darren-aronofsky-is-sure-to-get-under-your-skin/

I love these lines in the article " and educate the 10.7 million teens who have used e-cigarettes or are thinking about trying them." Only an ad man or a politician could come up with advertising negatives to people thinking about something. "by educating them about the harmful and addictive chemicals they may be inhaling" I would imagine breathing in NYC is more dangerous than vaping. I wonder if they will put out ads about that?

 

[AttyPops]

^^ Related to those above:
FDA's new anti-vape campaign targets teens with snark

Vaping Madness!
(Using nic distorts their skin/looks/image. Because teens are more sensitive to image distortion than they are to health warnings...being "invincible" and all. Pure psyops.)

 

[AttyPops]

P.S.

But I think some PSA's are a good idea. Better than just vilification and lies and panic. But content matters.
The message wasn't all that bad. They can have trace formaldehyde and acrolein. The graphics are B.S. of course. But supposed to be metaphorical.
Meh. Most anti-smoking commercials are also psyops. They usually come on while I'm eating dinner...

But I think that some PSA's are effective deterrents. And those of us making the switch need to just keep on keeping on...

This was interesting (in link above):

Crosby said the ads were shown to focus groups, including a group of adult smokers who want to quit. She said they made these smokers cautious about trying e-cigarettes as an aid to stop smoking combustible cigarettes, so the FDA will not be running the ads on mainstream media such as television.

 

[stols001]

30 days spent in a room with nothing but a pillow, blanket, and a stack of books makes an impact.

That would be considered child abuse in today's age and better make sure it is not during SCHOOL TIME.

Also what if the kid's a smoker? Should they be denied the right to harm reduction measures because they completed an initial illegal act?

Should methadone patients be detoxed of methadone while in jail because the government doesn't want to pay for it?

These are all reasonable, valid measures in my opinion but @Letita, unless you are willing to take unpaid FMLA to incarcerate your child (which I doubt you would be) then you'll have to handcuff him to the radiator and leave him alone and that FOR SURE IS CHILD ABUSE and child endangerment. Imagine if the house burns down?

Look, these are simplistic EASY solutions to a problem that has been plaguing parents for decades and only worsening as life speeds up. We aren't in the middle ages any more you can't punish your kid for being an ... by apprenticing him to the local blacksmith, I'm sorry, you just can't.

To a certain extent teens will act out ALWAYS it is a function of their BRAIN development. The harsh draconian measures make things worse.. Prevention education are all fine but have their limits.

Whenever I hear something like that, I say to myself "That person has never parented a teen and has forgotten BEING A TEEN.

Big tobacco could just take over vaping but they are failing and yes that is a problem.

BLAMING the teens only has a certain amount of merit in my eyes. They can't help it and many parents will not know, not want to deal and under and overreact.

The fact is, saying it's the teens fault does not solve ANY problem and my parents did the equivalent "Locking me in rehab for 30 days at 17" and I did the regular and expected act out MORE when I got out.

That is how it WORKS for some teens, and I needed some hard knocks to grow up, but not really from my .parents OR legally, I had to just live with my wrong decisions and let my brain mature and deal with the fallout.

IF TEENS ARE ALL getting addicted to vaping, we may have a problem. But the reality is the regular subset of teens are getting into trouble, their parents are doing their best, and well, life continues.

And, my mom DEFINED Helecopter parenting. She was NO MATCH FOR MY ADDICTIONS ever, I had to get well on my own like many teens with addiction issues.

Teen addiction and impulsivity are NORMATIVE. It is the fact that they are being USED that I find obnoxious and for a non parent to say "I would just lock mine UP for 30 days IS EASY TO SAY.

I sent mine to rehab, mainly so he'd have a safe place to detox off 16 hits of ACID but chaining him to the radiator would have been cruel and Inappropriate. I wouldn't do that to my worst ENEMY let alone my kid.

Come on, now. THIS IS NOT ABOUT TEENS (good or bad) parents (good or bad) and honestly if you haven't faced those issues maybe it's time to take a long hard look at why you'd say that. That type of discipline usually teaches a teen nothing besides "I hate my parent and I can't wait til I get out."


If you want to address our stressed out SOCIETY that's one thing, but frankly it is not about which punishment works and that one would at least get you the same as the TEEN-- LOCKED UP for child endangerment and the kid is going to hate you and not learn from you.

That is how it went in my household growing up. Things were going badly, and all of us kids eventually grew up.

I will say, my kid got "sane and sober" before I did, and I consider that a victory because my mom BEAT ME REGULARLY and I never once laid a hand on my kid, and if anything his teen genetics were WORSE than mine. He got discipline, but also support, negotiation and I've studied a LOT of child theory. I agree with some of it but not ALL, and I most certainly don't support harsh or illogical consequences like ARRESTING a teen for wanting to try adult things. That is nonsense unless it is a violent crime it should be treatment not harsh punitive consequences of course I kind of think that about many adults frankly,

Anna

 

[Letitia]

Get over yourself. I never said lock the door or keep them from school. Taking away electronics and creature comforts is not child abuse. Neither is making them earn such things back.

 

[stols001]

I agree with you.

That is not what you said though. You said, "30 days spent in a room with nothing but pillows a blanket and books." I was kind of surprised you didn't include "Bucket in the corner."

If you meant something different, why not specify that? Being grounded at home is a perfectly reasonable consequence but I'm relieved to hear it, because once one gets into those types of black and white statements it is quite easy to jump to that conclusion.

"Grounded after school" is quite different than "30 days spent in room with nothing but..." etc.

So I'm glad you feel otherwise to be frank, because that is not the way that statement came across although certainly I apologize for misinterpreting it.

Anna

 

[Letitia]

Drop it. Good night everyone.

 

[United States]

Kids are going to find ways to obtain things they aren't supposed to have.

Epidemic? No more than dirty magazines under teenage boys mattresses or matches in a top dresser drawer.

Grown ups are acting like "GASP!! OH MY GOSH" like kids doing the forbidden is a new thing.

Nope, this is all a money grab by ghestapo bureaucrats. Nothing more, nothing less. Any time they say "it's about the children" the odds in Vegas are 99:1 it aint got nuttin' to do with the kids.