Knock off rant

[SissySpike]

Why do we support Knock offs? Something like the Lava tube we thought was a knock off is juts a cheeper version but not really the same is one thing. But the clones that are a blatant rip off why do so many people have no integrity what so ever? It seems to me If we continue to support the design thieves the people who make better and innovative products will go away. Why would you try to be in a field who rewards your hard work, time, and investment with buying cheap substandard copy's of your product.
To the person who says availability I say have patience. 6 months ago Zen stuff was almost unobtainable unless you wanted to drop a truck payment on a mod but now are easy to obtain at less than cost used prices now.
Why pay a hundred dollars when you can get the same thing for 20? Well for one it is not the same I have yet to see a clone that preformed like original.
Why should I pay you X amount of dollars when I can hire an illegal alien to do your job for a quarter of the price? Same principal applys here.
I just wish there were more people with values and integrity maybe Im just foolish to think this!

 

[Plumes.91]

If I had to buy a Zen or a DID I wouldn't have a rebuildable at all. I have no job. A lot of people want to be able to rebuild but we dont want to pay for a designer genesis tank. Same thing with my underwear. I like boxer briefs but I'm not paying Target $15.99 for 3 pairs of Fruit of the Loom, I'd rather go to Walmart and buy 6 pairs made in china for $5.99 If it weren't for knock offs there wouldn't be Vision Spinners AND Joye Twists, and the majority of the people on these forums like the Spinners better, which is a knock off. Same thing with the original eGos. Same thing with cartomizers.. We all want to be able to afford vaping and knock offs allow me to be able to afford vaping. I see your point completely though and if it weren't where Zens were 200 bucks I'd definitely support Zen instead of buying my Aga-T..... but if I had to spend 200 bucks on a rebuildable tank I wouldn't have one in the 1st place.

 

[meli.]

I appreciate the argument and totally agree, but at the same time I ask this:
Why do we say it's ok for e-liquid producers to name and in some cases copy the trademarks of known cigarette brands and then get Angry with the Tobacco companies when they raise objections to the mis-use of their Brands?

 

[MF DOOM]

It's the root of all evil.

 

[SissySpike]

If I had to buy a Zen or a DID I wouldn't have a rebuildable at all. I have no job. A lot of people want to be able to rebuild but we dont want to pay for a designer genesis tank. Same thing with my underwear. I like boxer briefs but I'm not paying Target $15.99 for 3 pairs of Fruit of the Loom, I'd rather go to Walmart and buy 6 pairs made in china for $5.99 If it weren't for knock offs there wouldn't be Vision Spinners AND Joye Twists, and the majority of the people on these forums like the Spinners better, which is a knock off. Same thing with the original eGos. Same thing with cartomizers.. We all want to be able to afford vaping and knock offs allow me to be able to afford vaping. I see your point completely though and if it weren't where Zens were 200 bucks I'd definitely support Zen instead of buying my Aga-T..... but if I had to spend 200 bucks on a rebuildable tank I wouldn't have one in the 1st place.

Im changing my comment after some thought This is IMO exactly the problem if you cant afford something then you should not have it. Ive been unemployed I went out door to door and earned cash for doing odd jobs to supplement My unemployment and while this is a good excuse its still just that an excuse to support those who steel.

 

[Izan]

Why do we support Knock offs? Something like the Lava tube we thought was a knock off is juts a cheeper version but not really the same is one thing. But the clones that are a blatant rip off why do so many people have no integrity what so ever? It seems to me If we continue to support the design thieves the people who make better and innovative products will go away. Why would you try to be in a field who rewards your hard work, time, and investment with buying cheap substandard copy's of your product.
To the person who says availability I say have patience. 6 months ago Zen stuff was almost unobtainable unless you wanted to drop a truck payment on a mod but now are easy to obtain at less than cost used prices now.
Why pay a hundred dollars when you can get the same thing for 20? Well for one it is not the same I have yet to see a clone that preformed like original.
Why should I pay you X amount of dollars when I can hire an illegal alien to do your job for a quarter of the price? Same principal applys here.
I just wish there were more people with values and integrity maybe Im just foolish to think this!

CAPITALISM : Ain't it great!!!!

 

[Pete54]

I actually totally agree with you buzzlove. It drives me crazy. So you'd rather buy the knock-off because you can't afford the higher quality original device? In the vast majority of products, buying quality ends up costing less. I bought a Provari two years ago and it's still works as good as the day I bought it. Look around these threads and you'll find numerous people complaining about their Vamo's not working properly. Over time, buying a quality device will cost you less than having to buy 4 cheap knockoffs. Also, how much were you spending on cigarettes? Probably at least $6 a day or $180 per month. Sorry, but I think the "I can't afford quality" is just an excuse for what ends up being a poor decision in the long run.

 

[martinc]

Being around for a few years already,seeing what's available and what will come in the futur,I think this type of discussion wont have its place anymore...we have smalls (eGo type) box PVs and APVs and tube PVs and APVs,hell,even keyring PVs.

Now that most forms exists,they can all be some type or form of copies from now on!

But yeah,direct copies (i.e. China and affordable at 10x less) are disturbing but what can we do really?
Those are here to stay and even if they are cheaper (in both senses) people will buy them for a reason or the other (like those who ''need'' 6 wont certainly buy 6XDiD)

And with the ridiculous prices offered in the numerous co-ops every day...

In the end,one has to equip himself/herself and be content with what he has and stop hunting for the graal

 

[SissySpike]

I appreciate the argument and totally agree, but at the same time I ask this:
Why do we say it's ok for e-liquid producers to name and in some cases copy the trademarks of known cigarette brands and then get Angry with the Tobacco companies when they raise objections to the mis-use of their Brands?

Good point and I agree 100% There should not be juice named Marlboro Red

 

[Plumes.91]

I do make money. How else would I afford my knock offs? I shouldn't have a rebuildable tank because I couldn't afford a Zen? You aren't making sense to me at that point. I love your reviews but this is a little too wonky for me. Try telling a mother of 7 she should just buy a 25 pound ham for Xmas instead of buying the prepackaged slices. A real ham isn't in her price bracket but if she can't afford it they might as well not have christmas dinner. lol. A Zen or Cobra or Penelope just isn't a smart buy for me. I SHOULD NOT be spending my 200 dollars on a rebuildable atomizer system. Its NOT normal to spend that much on nicotine delivery for someone that makes as little as I do. For someone as young as I am! And I'm not the only one that makes less than 200 a week or is under 25 here. Minimum wage is 8.25/hour and anyone under 30 doesn't get a full 40 hours a week even when they have a job. Why shouldn't I buy something that china has created to allow me the experience of building my own atomizer (which appeals to me... because it will save me money by the way, lol) Why should I choose to go without a system that will save me money? Buying knock off rebuildable atomizers has allowed me to save up to buy a new US made mod and US made Kick microchip this past week. I put the mod and microchip higher priority than a US made rebuildable atomizer. If I had gone with saving up for the Zen it'd take me forever and I'd have an expensive rebuildable tank instead of two cheap rebuildable tanks and a new mod and kick with money to spare because I've been rebuilding


Speaking of rebuildable genesis tanks solely now... I look at them differently from you. I don't really look at them from a performance standpoint. I don't care if they have a few quirks that make them perform a bit under par when compared to a more expensive genesis system. Performance in a genesis system comes AFTER the fact that it will save me money because it will last longer and cost less to rebuild as opposed to buying new cartomizers. I'm only speaking for those of us (namely those who will allow me to speak for them first and foremost, but..) that see genesis atomizers in this way. We like the design. We like tanks, but we really like that they will save us money. Spending $30 on my GV Birkshire was a big investment for me. $30 is basically over a quarter of my weekly pay. So looking at this from a price perspective, some of us need knock offs to vape comfortably in the 1st place. I want to be a part of the new technologies too. Just because I don't make enough money to afford a US made genesis doesn't mean I should bite my tongue and go on as a vaper that doesn't get to try the new systems. I'm happy that there are Bolts for the people that can't afford Silver Bullets. I'm very happy that there are EA mods for people that can't afford GGs. I'm very very happy that there are DID clones for people that can't afford DIDs.

 

[MikeA5]

Buzz, There's only one instance that I can think of, at the moment, that I agree with you. Thats with the Terminator RBA that blatently copies the GG Ody in short mode and dripping mode. In that instance, by in large, the parts are interchangable. But in most other cases I respectively disagree. For example the ProVari Vs the Lavatube or other variences thereof. In that case the parts are not interchangable etc. Both mods use DC to DC converters to achieve variable volts but DC to DC converters have been around for decades and were not invented by ProVape or the Lavatube or other variences thereof. The idea of using them in a APV may or maynot have been originally implemented by ProVape but that doesn't mean they have exclusive rights to the "idea". I watch many of your reviews and enjoy many of them, so don't take this criticism personally. Take care and hope you find a full or part time job soon.

 

[meli.]

...This is IMO exactly the problem if you cant afford something then you should not have it....

I have difficulty with this quote. I'll explain,
I need a torch, Maglite is Thee torch to have, I really don't want to drive my Humvee over it, when I do I'll buy a Maglite but for now all I really need is a torch that Lights my way in the Dark.

So, I can spend a lot of money and buy a Maglite or I can buy a torch that Looks like a Maglite, that doesn't mean people will Stop buying Maglites, or that torches shouldn't look like one another - it means there is a Market for both.

Those that want an Aspirational Handcrafted item like a GG or similar will still buy it, in the same way Rolex still sell watches irrespective of the many knock offs out there.

Those that cannot afford to buy them would never have bought them in the first place and even if there is a knock off that still doesn't count for anything because it isn't an Original Handcrafted piece and that is what Handcrafted is all about.

When someone with a knock off can Afford the Real deal then they will make the necessary purchase.

 

[Plumes.91]

There are people vaping that are less fortunate than I. There are people vaping that can barely afford to put food on their table. Maybe vaping is the one thing that they spend on themselves. Just like back in the 20s and 30s tobacco pipe smoking was the one thing grampa spent on himself that made him feel good, that perked him up, because even though he was eating potato soup every single night, at least he could smoke his pipe after work and before bed. I am very happy with the vape supplies that I have worked for. My meager little collection is nothing compared to the real mod collectors that have 2 GGs and 2 Zens and 2 Ihybrids, but at least I get a taste of what those are like. And I enjoy my Aga-T to no end. I love my Bolt, my telescope, I love them all. I am proud that I can say I own a Provari and a Reo. But I can't own them all. So I pick and choose and in order to be able to try a rebuildable, I am glad that there are Aga-Ts and phoenix clones out there. I don't even look at it like I am buying a knock off. I see them as trophies. I am proud that I could afford my Aga-T and my Bolt and my Telescope. I do a lot of research and watch/read a lot of reviews and pick and choose which foreign made devices I spend my money on so that I DON'T buy a dud. That is why I own a provari. Because I know the track record of vv foreign made mods. But the Bolt has been getting rave reviews and that is why I own a Bolt. That is why I own a vented Telescope. That is why I own an Aga-T. They are all fine devices in my book and I love each of them. So with that I'm out of here because I gave MY perspective. Please add to this if you agree with me. thanks!

 

[Orobas]

well when you can tell me whose the innovator and whose the imitator maybe I'll know better next time. Because from where I am sitting right now with two busted GENUINE FROM TEH FACTORAYYYY Kanger T3s it almost looks as if the knockoff is better than the original in some cases.

I just want something that freaking WORKS and I don't want to sell my rhetorical firstborn to be able to afford it.

 

[chuckie]

Didn't the Chinese invent E-cigs?

 

[Nurzrachit]

Making a good living, but I am sitting down after a long night of work vaping on a vivnova perched atop a gripper. I do own an Ihybrid, and love it, but to me those that buy only expensive mods are foolish and egotistical. This argument has been going on since the 70's as far as I can remember with various products. The economy is going to drive the market, and very few people want to spend over $100 dollars on a device. Who can blame em.

 

[nameless73]

Im changing my comment after some thought This is IMO exactly the problem if you cant afford something then you should not have it. Ive been unemployed I went out door to door and earned cash for doing odd jobs to supplement My unemployment and while this is a good excuse its still just that an excuse to support those who steel.

All this tells me is I have to be an elitest or wealthy to vape. I'm 40 & work a full time job, support 2 children as a single dad sorry but a provari or a genuine DID is not in my budget. So does that mean I cant vape? I can't afford an Ipad does that mean I can't have an android tablet? B.S.

 

[meli.]

Indeed and in defense of Buzzlove, I think if you went and bought your iPad and then opened it up and found out it was an Android you would be rather upset.
This where I see two arguments arising, with clearomisers, atomizers like vivi nova's stardusts etc. continuously being ripped off and knocked off as well as with mods - spending a lot of money with a vendor who is naughty enough to sell you a GG when it's actually a ChiChi.

I think the above is tantamount to fraud and would make anyone angry, but selling an item that's an Obvious Imitation and Not an Exact Replica and it is so Stated leaves the Moral Dilemma to the Buyer.

 

[Plumes.91]

I know Buzz to be a very smart guy. I don't think he was talking to those of us that have low budgets. I think he was more so talking on a technical standpoint, and a moral one. Try to support the original makers of US mods and dissuade copy-cats from ripping them off if you can. Perhaps Buzz did not look at it from someone who truly cannot, at any time, look at the price of a 200 atomizer and set out to purchase it. I could be wrong of course, but I think hes just trying to say that if your truly just trying to SAVE money then you should just save up for the original device because we should support the original inventors. But like I said, I don't see rebuildables as something I should buy because I want high performance first and foremost. 1st and foremost I see rebuilding as a way to save money and I will never see a 200 rebuildable genesis device worth spending on. Buzz is just trying to be the moral one. But where he sees communism in the way Zen's ideas were stolen from the Chinese and "distributed" to Zen's prospective customers, I see communism in demanding that we stick to one product. Marxism Vs. Communism

 

[wonderland]

Im changing my comment after some thought This is IMO exactly the problem if you cant afford something then you should not have it. Ive been unemployed I went out door to door and earned cash for doing odd jobs to supplement My unemployment and while this is a good excuse its still just that an excuse to support those who steel.

You can't "supplement" your unemployment. Any income must be reported to the unemployment office and they accordingly lower the amount of unemployment benefits you receive. If you don't, it's fraud which is a bit ironic considering this topic.


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