Lemon Juice And Salt Test

[Sun Vaporer]

I would hope no-one would use a cleaning agent and not wash it out.


I understood the meaning behind the words.

Perhaps a clearer statement would be advisable,
possibly there should be a forum header, as Kinabaloo suggests,
maybe something like:

'If you wish to suggest a cleaning agent, please find out what it contains
[I]before[/I] posting it here as a recommendation to other users.
If dangerous chemicals, such as strong acids, are involved, you [I]must[/I] 
include a clear statement that the cleanser should be regarded as potentially
dangerous, and add that safety precautions are necessary.

That way you could categorise posts into 'candidates for deletion' and
'abiding by the common sense rules'

Exogenesis--It would be great if you wrote it up and I will make it a stickey--Thanks--Sun

 

[exogenesis]

OK, I'll discuss it with Kinabaloo & between us get the wording as
strong/common-sense as possible

(ready for a PM-athon Kinabaloo ?)

 

[kinabaloo]

Exogenesis: Yes, this part should be added:

"'If you wish to suggest a cleaning agent, please find out what it contains
before posting it here as a recommendation to other users."

There could be dangerous posts along the lines of "I recommend X, it works great cleaning my boiler/car engine/local incinerator. I used it and now I get big smoke. Try it!"

But I don't remember any post like that. It is more likely to be "How about X, it works great in my diesel engine?" Then we can reply to it.

 

[kinabaloo]

As a header, not a sticky. I didnt read any sticky, so I guess most people don't. Add the disclaimer too! And make a header so it 'can't be missed' (legally a better position I'd say).

I reccommend Exogenesis to write a draft. Get Smokey to sign it off and use as a header with added disclaimer (absolving website, owner and participants in th event of damages arising).

 

[Sun Vaporer]

As a header, not a sticky. I didnt read any sticky, so I guess most people don't. Add the disclaimer too! And make a header so it 'can't be missed' (legally a better position I'd say).

I reccommend Exogenesis to write a draft. Get Smokey to sign it off and use as a header with added disclaimer (absolving website, owner and participants in th event of damages arising).

Kinablaoo--PM it to me when you are done and I will talk to Smokey to get it done--Thanks--Sun

 

[kinabaloo]

Interestingly, a post about the popcorn-maker cleaner might have been deleted as the ingredients are unknown

A disturbing sounding acid might have a special property that makes it effective and might not be required in a high concentration; and even if it could never be used by the wider public, discussing it might lead to something safer after following the lead.

And don't forget that a small of bottle of juice can kill 5 people (according to a post by TropicalBob today).

... working on the header wording now ...

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Interestingly, a post about the popcorn-maker cleaner might have been deleted as the ingredients are unknown

A disturbing sounding acid might have a special property that makes it effective and need not be required in a high concentration; and even if it could never be used by the wider public, discussing it might lead to something safer after following the lead.

And don't forget that a small of bottle of juice can kill 5 people (according to a post by TropicalBob today).

kinabaloo--The Popcorn Cleaner is used on food processing devices, the Ice Cleaner solution is used on Food processing Devices, vingear is eaten as well as lemon, Hydogen Peroxide is used as a mouth wash, citric acid is used as a food perseravitve--and so on---there is nor will there ever be a food application of the use of the acids we spoke of earler--So I think you know were we are coming from-----Sun

 

[radiokaos]

kinabaloo--The Popcorn Cleaner is used on food processing devices, the Ice Cleaner solution is used on Food processing Devices, vingear is eaten as well as lemon, Hydogen Peroxide is used as a mouth wash, citric acid is used as a food perseravitve--and so on---there is nor will there ever be a food application of the use of the acids we spoke of earler--So I think you know were we are coming from-----Sun

Sun, thank you so much for taking an active stance on this. I only have a few semesters of organic chem and reading some of the posts I was ready to explode. It seems like the last two weeks people have been coming up with all sorts of weird ideas to clean atomizers (sea foam, muratic acid, etc). As I mentioned in a different post I would hate to read that some member killed themselves because they were desperate to clean a atomizer.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Sun, thank you so much for taking an active stance on this. I only have a few semesters of organic chem and reading some of the posts I was ready to explode. It seems like the last two weeks people have been coming up with all sorts of weird ideas to clean atomizers (sea foam, muratic acid, etc). As I mentioned in a different post I would hate to read that some member killed themselves because they were desperate to clean a atomizer.

Thanks Radokaos--that is what I am trying to do and do not know why I am getting such resistance--makes no sense???---Sun

 

[kinabaloo]

I think the point about food use is a good indicator. But it is important to be able to discuss other things, but not reccommend them.

 

[kinabaloo]

No, not resistance. I actually pushed for both a warning and disclaimer as a header. But we need to be able to discuss things that we would not recommend.

 

[exogenesis]

Sun Vaporer, why do you think there's any 'resistance' to this?
We're all singing from the the same hymn sheet here.

Kinabaloo, don't know if this is possible,
maybe there should be a special 'member only' forum for discussion
of dodgy new chemical cleaner ideas, that is open to people who 'sign' a real
disclaimer understanding ?

Then the useful/sensible ideas could migrate to the general forum.

 

[kinabaloo]

That can be done by pm - as we do already sometimes, so i don't see a need for it.

 

[sbuck]

sbuck - "2) Finding a way to get a little pressure to an assembled atomizer without breaking it." Just vaping with it again would probably cause the deposit to flake off - that happens after it has been weakened.

B-brite seems quite harmless. It's main active ingredient, the percarbonate, is an active oxygen cleaner, not unlike hydrogen peroxide.

A nice idea to mix the powder into vinegar and lemon juice rather than water.

Thanks kinabalo. I was wondering if getting it hot again by vaping would remove the gunk. I was trying to throw everything "safe" at the device, thus mixing the lemon juice, vinegar and cleaning solution. I need to try it on a dirty atomizer. Just wish I could see down in there to know if it is really going to work. I'm using a RN4072

 

[sbuck]

I think the report is very promising. I was considering suggesting it when I was looking into citric acid as used in coffee equipment descalers and looking into keg tap cleaner recommended by another member. Based on your experiment I think we should consider how the combination of elements may have contributed to your results. I probably should use b-brite on my own brewing equipment instead of bleach, although I don't do much brewing anymore and have focused on what I call mini-brewing (1 gallon batches). Would the softened carbon have washed away with a simple water rinse?

Here's a book I wrote if anyone wants to know how to do every kind of professional home wine brewing. It includes instructions on about everything including champagne. My own invention is a home brewed wine cooler that is both carbonated and sweet without resorting to artificial carbonation and without any risk of exploding bottles I just love my hard lemonade and fuzzy navels.

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If all of the links get broken and anyone is still interested, PM me.

Thanks for sharing the info on the wine. I'm going to read about the wine cooler. Sounds yummy. Hubby makes a great raspberry beer. Incredible flavor. I will definitely give this to him to read.

As far as cleaning the atomizer, the water wash did not remove the carbon. I simply pinched it a little to see if it had gotten soft or mushy from the solution. It was not soft. It was really brittle and when I lightly pinched it it cracked in two an completely fell off.

 

[sbuck]

"Would the softened carbon have washed away with a simple water rinse?"

I doubt it as it would just come off while in the cleaner. Seems to be heating (and cooling) of the coil that does the final removal.

ps: wouldn't you rather sell your winemaking book? Is this like a draft for proofreading/feedback. I was into this years ago, and as an avid consumer of the red stuff might go back into it one day.

The carbon did not come off with a water rinse. Also, It was not softened. When I pinched it, it just cracked and fell off. I need to give it a try on a dirty "working" atomizer.

Interestingly enough, out of the 3 solutions I tried with the foil, this was the only one, that when swished around in the cup, you could visibly see the stuff just flaking/swishing off the foil. Whatever did not swish off, came off easily with just a light swipe of the finger.

 

[sbuck]

Wow, I just had an atomizer for my supermini that I'd been using for a few days without any maintenance burn up and then it went totally cold. By burn up I mean I took the cartridge off and observed it as it was happening. It looked like it was super heating and glowing like a supernova.

Just to be sure it was cold I thought I'd try to clean it. Here was an interesting experiment: I put it in a bowl with some vinegar, lemon juice, a little salt and a little hydrogen peroxide all mixed together and heated gently on a coffeemaker hotplate for up to 10 minutes, soaked in clean water, rinsed thoroughly blew it out and dried. Still cold.

Something about this combo corroded the visible copper contacts and threads turning them a sort of brass color with grey oxidation and the threads are no longer smooth but rough and ragged.

Something to think about.

Interesting. With the atomizer I used I never saw any copper parts. Everything(before cleaning) was a grey/silver metal color, even the wires. I used a RN4072

 

[kinabaloo]

sbuck - a good clean in say vinegar or lemon juice does not soften the deposit in the sense of squeezy, it makes it more fragile in the sense of brittle, such that starting to vape again is often the time when the gunk actually comes off.

Presumably, with some of the gunk dissolved by the acid (the minerals parts), tiny holes are introduced into the deposit. Juice goes into these holes and the pressure exerted by heating the juice as it changes to gas forces the now more fragile gunk off. It will be wshed out next time drained/cleaned; it is mostly just carbon by then.

ps: i wonder if the aluminium played any part in the success here, improving the technique somehow?

 

[sbuck]

sbuck - a good clean in say vinegar or lemon juice does not soften the deposit in the sense of squeezy, it makes it more fragile in the sense of brittle, such that starting to vape again is often the time when the gunk actually comes off.

Presumably, with some of the gunk dissolved by the acid (the minerals parts), tiny holes are introduced into the deposit. Juice goes into these holes and the pressure exerted by heating the juice as it changes to gas forces the now more fragile gunk off. It will be wshed out next time drained/cleaned; it is mostly just carbon by then.

ps: i wonder if the aluminium played any part in the success here, improving the technique somehow?

Thanks for explaining. I am soooo chemistry illiterate. I was wondering if the aluminum had something to do with it also. My husband said the same thing. Do you think it would make a difference if a piece of foil was added to the solution?

 

[kinabaloo]

There was a little discussion of a suggestion to use aluminium in contact with the atomizer; i can't seem to find it now ...

But the metal to metal contact was said to be important.

Not sure if anything in this. A bit groogy this morning, only had the 2 caffeine shots so far ...