Max flavor out of MTL RTA?

[MichaellMcCoyy]

Congrats Michael. I'm doin same today on six builds. Ever tightening it up.
I vape at 3mg roughly to be able to produce more vapor (or vapor density) and more frequently, like chaining, without overdoing the nic. You may find it desirable (or necessary for you) as you drop nic to increase power slightly, or build at a bit more power. In other words, find a balance using nic and power somewhere in between. This may help you handle the nic drop.

Nice weekend and good luck M.

I was a 2 pack a day smoker before I left for basic training. At tech school my buddy got me hooked on vaping mint juul pods that he would sneak to class in his sock lol

Nowadays, I don’t do it for the nic - I do it for the flavor, not to mention the ritual itself is a pretty good stress relief.

I have a very large surplus of salt nic coming from a pod system, so after I use it all up, I plan on moving to 3mg or even 0.

I did buy a couple 3mg on sale to try, but I found the flavor to be a lot less pronounced (when the lady at the vape store said that 3mg would be more flavorful than salts). I much prefer the slow steady onset of freebase rather than the rapid in your face nic rush from salts

A brand called Hometown Hero is doing a .1c e - juice promotion for first time buyers (you have to pay shipping) that I just took advantage of.

I’m not sure if Id get better performance by upping my wattage with the 28 gauge or moving to a larger gauge like the 25 you sent the steam-engine link for a page or two back.

Disclaimer : I am celebrating my birthday tonight and got a little drunk... this took a lot longer to type than it should have.

 

[Superuser187]

Yo Michael...I know u said u manage to wick better...but I just wanted to say that my last build it's already 5days vaping it and the coil and cotton is totally clean no gunk at all!!!!
I am vaping very sweet juice ry4/butterscotch/custard vanilla/mochaa 70vg And it's first time I have that result....
Just saying wicking is everything man....vaping like 8mls per day
Using simple 26ga kanthal and flavour is strong at least to me I mean.... no fancy coil....just saying to give you positivity in case u haven't get your ideal vape yet....took 2 months to me and still I have a lot to learn ofc

 

[MichaellMcCoyy]

Yo Michael...I know u said u manage to wick better...but I just wanted to say that my last build it's already 5days vaping it and the coil and cotton is totally clean no gunk at all!!!!
I am vaping very sweet juice ry4/butterscotch/custard vanilla/mochaa 70vg And it's first time I have that result....
Just saying wicking is everything man....vaping like 8mls per day
Using simple 26ga kanthal and flavour is strong at least to me I mean.... no fancy coil....just saying to give you positivity in case u haven't get your ideal vape yet....took 2 months to me and still I have a lot to learn ofc

Damn man, must be nice lol. I’m still having to change multiple times a day. Take a look at my process. I think the pictures got out of order somehow but you can see me starting from a tight 7 wrap 28gauge, and ending up with a decently spaced .74 ohm coil.

This particular time I used cotton and cut at the edge of the deck, without fluffing, then stuffed the end of the cotton into the well (mimicking GrimmGreen on YouTube). I installed my cotton particularly tight this time, how I install my rayon (one hand on each end of the cotton to lightly pull on it, and slide it through). Wondering how it will fare - the cotton slides without deforming the coil, but it is tighter than I usually do it.

Pulse dry burned at 5 watts, then 10, then fired lightly at 12 (picture)

Currently vaping at 15 watts

I did just buy a Kylin M mesh (for my 3mg) and I just got my Dovpo Mini DNA charged up. I’m excited to try that out, but it will probably have to wait until tomorrow (baby duty).

 

[MichaellMcCoyy]

I tried the Kylin Mesh... I love it. I get that sweet full body vapor that I’ve been missing. I really didn’t think I’d like DL, but halfway closed airflow isn’t so bad. I still prefer MTL I just wish I got this same flavor

 

[Superuser187]

Don't worry u gonna get your ideal vape experience i am sure....it just need time...I only got hellvape md and working only in that , still took me loooong time to get a good vape without any problem with it....u got some very good vape gear u gonna enjoy a lot once u get it right....
From the pics I see ofc all seem great....it's just small differences in the cotton thickness and stuff that the hand learns while u build...
just think about how much u learned already since your first build....

Keep building with no worries...if it's not leaking or get dry hits keep vaping it and maybe relax a bit and all gonna work out eventually

 

[MichaellMcCoyy]

After watching my my mesh tank drink a 120ml bottle in about a week, I decided to come back to my MTL tanks to see if I could save some juice. Lol.

I wonder if the way I was hitting these was causing it to burn up? How are you supposed to hit a MTL vape? I wasn’t using any sucking force of my lungs, just pulling with my lips (like a cigarette) if that makes sense.

Now that I’m in RDL (largest hole on second disk with airflow wide open) mode on my MD, I’m getting decent flavor with 3mg, and it doesn’t seem to be blackening the coil like before (I’m inhaling pretty hard on it).

 

[Superuser187]

After watching my my mesh tank drink a 120ml bottle in about a week, I decided to come back to my MTL tanks to see if I could save some juice. Lol.

I wonder if the way I was hitting these was causing it to burn up? How are you supposed to hit a MTL vape? I wasn’t using any sucking force of my lungs, just pulling with my lips (like a cigarette) if that makes sense.

Now that I’m in RDL (largest hole on second disk with airflow wide open) mode on my MD, I’m getting decent flavor with 3mg, and it doesn’t seem to be blackening the coil like before (I’m inhaling pretty hard on it).

Mtl is like a cigarette Soo yes u did it right it seems....but ok some like it very tight draw and I don't get it why so tight but ok whatever one likes...I never had any cigarette that was Soo tight to puff....
I use the MD and I use also the largest hole for restricted dl but I usually take mtl puffs...I like to be airy with much vapor Soo I can get very fast small mtl puffs....and few times during the day I do direct puffs.....
The blackening of the coil from my experience is from the wicking...or maybe from a tight mtl draw with high wattage to increase temp? But would get a dry hit then propably.......I guess u got the wicking right now that's why it goes good...
Last week's I am not getting black coils fast like I used to...I even vaped a black chocolate juice and took 3days to get gunky....and with other juices many days I have no idea maybe more than a week with 10ml every day juice
It's different to get gunky from juice and to get dark kinda burned from the tight or wrong wicking...
Enjoy your vape

 

[MichaellMcCoyy]

Just wanted to report back what ended up working for me. I switched to a spool of 26gauge kanthal from Vandy Vape on an impulse test purchase from my local vape store.
.6ish ohms, 16 watts. It has lasted me 4+ tanks with no diminished flavor or blackening of my coil - it looks the same as it did when I installed it. Wicking, coil height, and airflow holes are all the same. No idea why it’s working so well, but it is.

Having to use my DNA mod in power mode kinda sucks, but at least I’m getting a quality vape now.

 

[Superuser187]

Just wanted to report back what ended up working for me. I switched to a spool of 26gauge kanthal from Vandy Vape on an impulse test purchase from my local vape store.
.6ish ohms, 16 watts. It has lasted me 4+ tanks with no diminished flavor or blackening of my coil - it looks the same as it did when I installed it. Wicking, coil height, and airflow holes are all the same. No idea why it’s working so well, but it is.

Having to use my DNA mod in power mode kinda sucks, but at least I’m getting a quality vape now.

Niceeeeeee
I felt the same the first time I had success but in the end was just my wicking...

I couldnt spot what I actually did different cause u had a standard way of doing it but seems it was just better...
and since then all my wicking no matter what the coil is are always clean and last long...
Actually a thicker wire don't heat up and not cool down as fast as thinner Soo can produce more could gunk or black spots...
But now for me with proper wicking all coild are the same...I mean from 28ga to 30/38 fused Clapton that I have used...
Enjoy it man
The more we build the more we learn

 

[riz.cit06]

Just wanted to report back what ended up working for me. I switched to a spool of 26gauge kanthal from Vandy Vape on an impulse test purchase from my local vape store.
.6ish ohms, 16 watts. It has lasted me 4+ tanks with no diminished flavor or blackening of my coil - it looks the same as it did when I installed it. Wicking, coil height, and airflow holes are all the same. No idea why it’s working so well, but it is.

Having to use my DNA mod in power mode kinda sucks, but at least I’m getting a quality vape now.

Just to let you know I found the whole thread quite helpful(and interesting). I have been using the Pioneer RTA for over a month now. My coil/wick gunk up too fast no matter what wire type I use. And I don't really like sweet juices.

Those 2 coils that came with the RTA package was great IMO. I have tried some prebuilt 28/40 NI80 clapton and 26/32 KA1 coils. Ni80 felt better for flavor, from my overall experience. Still, all of them gunk up quite fast.

Now I'm thinking about only using simple round-wire builds with 26 or 28G kanthal or Ni80. Your last update says using 26g KA1 in simple helped you find a good vape. Any suggestions or opinions on that for this particular RTA?

Oh, on a separate note...
Having successfully stripped 3 out of the 6 post-screws provided..... and losing another one. I have ordered around 200 pieces of M2.5*3 grub screws from a Chinese site.

At times I want to give up on this Pioneer RTA but when it works well, this is the best MTL atty I've owned/tried yet. And I don't think I'd get the same punch or flavor from something else(at its price range).

 

[MichaellMcCoyy]

Just to let you know I found the whole thread quite helpful(and interesting). I have been using the Pioneer RTA for over a month now. My coil/wick gunk up too fast no matter what wire type I use. And I don't really like sweet juices.

Those 2 coils that came with the RTA package was great IMO. I have tried some prebuilt 28/40 NI80 clapton and 26/32 KA1 coils. Ni80 felt better for flavor, from my overall experience. Still, all of them gunk up quite fast.

Now I'm thinking about only using simple round-wire builds with 26 or 28G kanthal or Ni80. Your last update says using 26g KA1 in simple helped you find a good vape. Any suggestions or opinions on that for this particular RTA?

Oh, on a separate note...
Having successfully stripped 3 out of the 6 post-screws provided..... and losing another one. I have ordered around 200 pieces of M2.5*3 grub screws from a Chinese site.

At times I want to give up on this Pioneer RTA but when it works well, this is the best MTL atty I've owned/tried yet. And I don't think I'd get the same punch or flavor from something else(at its price range).

I’m glad you found some use out of the thread. This RTA still frustrates me at times - mainly with leaking and pooling by the 510, but I’ve found that if I raise the coil up to just below the posts and I push the cotton down into the well/focus it to block the juice hole (like Bruce describes in his video) it won’t leak onto my DNA mod.

Flavor is best for me when the coil is closer to the airflow hole, so this is a minor drawback, but I’m sure I’ll figure out how to wick it while maintaining a closer distance eventually (even though it’s been months of effort now lol). The 1.2 insert seems to be the best for flavor and draw for me.

I have an MD, Ares 2, KF Prime, and Dwarv FL (both clones) - the Pioneer gives me the best flavor out of the bunch, although it’s the one I’ve practiced wicking the most....

I scrapped the 26g once I got TC working better and I’ve now been using 2.5mm 28G SS316L 5-7 closely spaced wraps at 25 Watts 420F (fruit flavored juice) with no preheat.

I use the Scottish wicking method - I do two small but loose rolls with one end of the spread out cotton and then trim it straight off the whole piece (if that makes sense) ... it’s not much at all. If it does end up being too much I’ll trim the twisted end, unroll it a little, and try again. I fluff the ends out but I don’t trim anything, and I just stuff it into the wells as described above.

I just purchased some SS430 28G because I noticed some instability in my device monitor, and a mod on the Escribe forums recommended it to me. It should be here today - hopefully have some good results.

 

[riz.cit06]

I’m glad you found some use out of the thread. This RTA still frustrates me at times - mainly with leaking and pooling by the 510, but I’ve found that if I raise the coil up to just below the posts and I push the cotton down into the well/focus it to block the juice hole (like Bruce describes in his video) it won’t leak onto my DNA mod.

Flavor is best for me when the coil is closer to the airflow hole, so this is a minor drawback, but I’m sure I’ll figure out how to wick it while maintaining a closer distance eventually (even though it’s been months of effort now lol). The 1.2 insert seems to be the best for flavor and draw for me.

I have an MD, Ares 2, KF Prime, and Dwarv FL (both clones) - the Pioneer gives me the best flavor out of the bunch, although it’s the one I’ve practiced wicking the most....

I scrapped the 26g once I got TC working better and I’ve now been using 2.5mm 28G SS316L 5-7 closely spaced wraps at 25 Watts 420F (fruit flavored juice) with no preheat.

I use the Scottish wicking method - I do two small but loose rolls with one end of the spread out cotton and then trim it straight off the whole piece (if that makes sense) ... it’s not much at all. If it does end up being too much I’ll trim the twisted end, unroll it a little, and try again. I fluff the ends out but I don’t trim anything, and I just stuff it into the wells as described above.

I just purchased some SS430 28G because I noticed some instability in my device monitor, and a mod on the Escribe forums recommended it to me. It should be here today - hopefully have some good results.

Thank you! That was very helpful and detailed. I am going to start with basic 28g Kanthal wire 1st. Will give some regular Ni80(28 or 26g) a try afterwards. I think simple round-wire builds are the safer option for inexperienced vapers like me. The build deck is too small for anything exotic(single/fused clapton or twisted) with the core wire bigger than 28g, mainly the post screws can't sit flush(even when fully tightened) and causes a short by touching the very short chimney. That has mainly lead me to stripping those tiny screws, trying to over-tighten them.

I'm very curious about SS316L in temp mode though, I do have a mod that supports temp mode(old Aspire Zelos mod) but nothing higher-end to have absolute trust in it. Still, maybe SS316L & Ni80 once I figure out the most basic KA1 build in this.

In most forums(including here), people suggest getting wires or premade coils from reputable brands and not to skimp on the price. That's probably something of a challenge for me considering where I live, we have mostly UD, Vandy-Vape and Geek-Vape available here. No idea if those are reputable brands for wires.

 

[MichaellMcCoyy]

Thank you! That was very helpful and detailed. I am going to start with basic 28g Kanthal wire 1st. Will give some regular Ni80(28 or 26g) a try afterwards. I think simple round-wire builds are the safer option for inexperienced vapers like me. The build deck is too small for anything exotic(single/fused clapton or twisted) with the core wire bigger than 28g, mainly the post screws can't sit flush(even when fully tightened) and causes a short by touching the very short chimney. That has mainly lead me to stripping those tiny screws, trying to over-tighten them.

I'm very curious about SS316L in temp mode though, I do have a mod that supports temp mode(old Aspire Zelos mod) but nothing higher-end to have absolute trust in it. Still, maybe SS316L & Ni80 once I figure out the most basic KA1 build in this.

In most forums(including here), people suggest getting wires or premade coils from reputable brands and not to skimp on the price. That's probably something of a challenge for me considering where I live, we have mostly UD, Vandy-Vape and Geek-Vape available here. No idea if those are reputable brands for wires.

I use wire I got from Amazon and some Vandy Vape I get from my local shop... don’t notice much of a difference. Are you sure they’re m2.5 x 3? I stripped the Phillips that it came with earlier today, and I dropped the last two replacement ones in my carpet lmao... trying to find some on Amazon but I’m only seeing the cup point. Not sure if those will work

 

[riz.cit06]

I use wire I got from Amazon and some Vandy Vape I get from my local shop... don’t notice much of a difference. Are you sure they’re m2.5 x 3? I stripped the Phillips that it came with earlier today, and I dropped the last two replacement ones in my carpet lmao... trying to find some on Amazon but I’m only seeing the cup point. Not sure if those will work

I checked with my very, very basic ruler and it seemed that the screws measure over 2.0mm if you include the threads. Either way, anything smaller than m2.5x3 is quite hard to get(from where I live) and if I miscalculated on the length I can simply file the screws down a bit. However, if they are m2.0 then I am screwed.... Will let you know here when I receive them, around a week more till they are delivered.

Those screws are too tiny for my fat hands. It seems that using precision screwdrivers with slimmer handles are better for not stripping. You can't apply much force if the handle's barely a centimeter thick.

I got some overpriced vaporwire's 28g Kanthal, simply they were the only 28g left in the shop I buy from. For Ni80 I got the UD's 26g(reasonably priced). I was told that UD, geekvape, vandyvape, coil-master or coilology... they mostly source their wires from more or less the same places after all. Brand name is usually one of the main factors driving the retail price.

 

[MichaellMcCoyy]

I checked with my very, very basic ruler and it seemed that the screws measure over 2.0mm if you include the threads. Either way, anything smaller than m2.5x3 is quite hard to get(from where I live) and if I miscalculated on the length I can simply file the screws down a bit. However, if they are m2.0 then I am screwed.... Will let you know here when I receive them, around a week more till they are delivered.

Those screws are too tiny for my fat hands. It seems that using precision screwdrivers with slimmer handles are better for not stripping. You can't apply much force if the handle's barely a centimeter thick.

I got some overpriced vaporwire's 28g Kanthal, simply they were the only 28g left in the shop I buy from. For Ni80 I got the UD's 26g(reasonably priced). I was told that UD, geekvape, vandyvape, coil-master or coilology... they mostly source their wires from more or less the same places after all. Brand name is usually one of the main factors driving the retail price.

I got some of the cup point in various sizes on Amazon for $12. They will be here Sunday. You’re right about the file, I planned on just filing them flat if they didn’t hold down the wire, but I’d rather not file them to size lol

 

[Molchi]

Got my Pioneer 3 days ago, and with the included coils the vape almost got too hot for me, so i did 5 wraps 26g ni80, i feel like a get a tiny bit less flavor but cause of the temperature it's a way better vape overall, never had such a quiet and smooth vape before.
For the wire i would think the same, i don't think that geekvape and all others are producing them theirself, i bought several brands from fasttech and all vaped the same.

 

[riz.cit06]

Got my Pioneer 3 days ago, and with the included coils the vape almost got too hot for me, so i did 5 wraps 26g ni80, i feel like a get a tiny bit less flavor but cause of the temperature it's a way better vape overall, never had such a quiet and smooth vape before.
For the wire i would think the same, i don't think that geekvape and all others are producing them theirself, i bought several brands from fasttech and all vaped the same.

Today I did a build with 28g Kanthal (8 wraps, 2.5mm), vapes a bit more consistently(and cooler) than the prebuilt ni80 clapton I last used from coilology. Less sweetness comes through, also some of higher notes seem to be missing.

Next build I'll try the 26g Ni80 then, expecting better flavor than KA1.