My NET Experiments -- Microwave Heat Extraction

[Chinook]

I did my first NET test DIY today! It's mainly based on the thread below. Thanks to people before me who wrote down their experiences!

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...cco/354182-pipe-tobacco-cigar-extraction.html


I mixed tobacco from 2 American Spirits Organic cigarettes and 15 mL PG in a regular shot glass. I used my 1000 W microwave at 70% power. I did the following sequence making sure that the mixture does not boil nor gets too hot to touch.

Power On 4 x 5 seconds -- checking in between to see how hot the shot glass is
Mix 30s
Power On 10s -- after this step I was able to "smell" the mixture
Mix 60s
Power On 10s

The extract color ended up being very close to the tobacco itself. I boiled 2 cotton balls and used them as filters at the bottom of a 30 mL syringe. After squeezing the water out, I made three "filters" out of cotton. After filtering three times, I ended up with 12 mL of extract. The extract has an "oily" smell with about half of the nuances I get when I crush the tobacco between my finger tips. I think I extracted enough since its color is very close to the tobacco itself. I'm not sure though if I have over extracted at this time.

I mixed up a 10mL 50/50 PG/VG juice with 25% extract and with a calculated 9 mg/mL nicotine level. It's a smooth vape with a slightly bitter finish. I'm hoping that it'll get more complexity in a week or two. There are no weird or off flavors. I'm also getting that oily nuance in the vape.

For the DIY'ers out here, when shall I expect the juice gain more complexity? Also does the extract itself "steep" too -- shall I expect its aroma from the bottle change too over time?

And finally, what are the typical signs of over extraction, just in case?


Thanks.

 

[Chinook]

I also started my 2nd extract as a baseline. This one will be cold steeped. I mixed tobacco from 2 American Spirits Organic cigarettes and 30 mL PG in a small glass jar with lid. I'm targeting 1-2 weeks steeping time. I'll check and smell it every day.

 

[billherbst]

Congratulations!

I've extracted American Spirit Organics also. Different brew method: my macerations are slow-simmered on a stovetop burner in a water bath over two days---six hours with heat on, six hours resting with no heat, then repeat that three more times. Different filtering methods also: my recent batches have been double-filtered, first using a large Melior French Press with a nylon mesh filter, then using two coffee filters that I twist into liquid-filled balls and force the liquid through by continuing to twist the closed tops of the filters. I intend to try the syringe and semi-packed cotton method on my upcoming pipe tobacco batches.

I mixed up a 10mL 50/50 PG/VG juice with 25% extract and with a calculated 9 mg/mL nicotine level. It's a smooth vape with a slightly bitter finish. There are no weird or off flavors. I'm also getting that oily nuance in the vape.

An oily nuance? I have no idea where that would come from. My ASO extract has no oiliness---none of my extracts do. Might that be a function of short bursts of intense microwaving? I haven't got a clue.

I'm hoping that it'll get more complexity in a week or two. For the DIY'ers out here, when shall I expect the juice gain more complexity? Also does the extract itself "steep" too -- shall I expect its aroma from the bottle change too over time?

Never. LOL. My experience has been that none of my extracts (six tobacco, three coffee) changes at all with steeping. Given our different extraction methods, however, your experience might differ. The DIY juices I've made from my various extracts do benefit from steeping, but not as much as one might think. I mean, I don't personally notice much difference between fresh and steeped in my DIY NET juices.

And finally, what are the typical signs of over extraction, just in case?

Hmmm. The possibility of over-extraction has never even occurred to me. I'm not sure what the signs of an over-extracted tobacco would be. Bitterness? Rotten pungency? Tastes like chicken? I don't know.

 

[Chinook]

Congratulations!

I've extracted American Spirit Organics also. Different brew method: my macerations are slow-simmered on a stovetop burner in a water bath over two days---six hours with heat on, six hours resting with no heat, then repeat that three more times. Different filtering methods also: my recent batches have been double-filtered, first using a large Melior French Press with a nylon mesh filter, then using two coffee filters that I twist into liquid-filled balls and force the liquid through by continuing to twist the closed tops of the filters. I intend to try the syringe and semi-packed cotton method on my upcoming pipe tobacco batches.

Thanks Bill! I'll eventually also try slow cooking method too. I'm just starting small for now

I was also going to do a first coffee filtering and then cotton in the syringe filter. I actually read about your coffee filter ball idea but I just went with triple cotton filtering for now. I'll see how much juice I can vape before the coil gets clogged.

An oily nuance? I have no idea where that would come from. My ASO extract has no oiliness---none of my extracts do. Might that be a function of short bursts of intense microwaving? I haven't got a clue.

By oily smell, I mean like microwave popcorn kind of smell. That was the initial smell I got but almost half a day later, I'm getting more tobaccoey aroma. Also, when I crush fresh ASO tobacco between my fingers and put my nose right next to the crushed tobacco, initially I get a strong but pleasant aroma. Then as a second note, I get this oily tobacco aroma. This is the "oily" aroma I'm mentioning. I guess in a way, it reminds of microwave popcorn smell, LOL !

Never. LOL. My experience has been that none of my extracts (six tobacco, three coffee) changes at all with steeping. Given our different extraction methods, however, your experience might differ. The DIY juices I've made from my various extracts do benefit from steeping, but not as much as one might think. I mean, I don't personally notice much difference between fresh and steeped in my DIY NET juices.

That's interesting! Some of the vendor NETs are changing quite a bit after steeping That's what I was also expecting. You are probably right about different extractions leading to different steeping characteristics though.

Hmmm. The possibility of over-extraction has never even occurred to me. I'm not sure what the signs of an over-extracted tobacco would be. Bitterness? Rotten pungency? Tastes like chicken? I don't know.

As long as my extract doesn't turn into fish sauce, I guess I'll be OK

I'm also doing a cold maceration in PG. That will be my baseline to compare with the quick heat extractions.

By the way, how does your slow cooked extractions compare to weeks long cold maceration in general? Do see any big nuance differences or some subtle ones? It sounds like you prefer the slow simmered NETs.

Thanks.

 

[Trayce]

I did my first NET test DIY today! It's mainly based on the thread below. Thanks to people before me who wrote down their experiences!

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...cco/354182-pipe-tobacco-cigar-extraction.html


I mixed tobacco from 2 American Spirits Organic cigarettes and 15 mL PG in a regular shot glass. I used my 1000 W microwave at 70% power. I did the following sequence making sure that the mixture does not boil nor gets too hot to touch.

Power On 4 x 5 seconds -- checking in between to see how hot the shot glass is
Mix 30s
Power On 10s -- after this step I was able to "smell" the mixture

How did it smell? Like the tobacco? or was it bitter or acrid?

Mix 60s
Power On 10s

The extract color ended up being very close to the tobacco itself. I boiled 2 cotton balls and used them as filters at the bottom of a 30 mL syringe. After squeezing the water out, I made three "filters" out of cotton. After filtering three times, I ended up with 12 mL of extract. The extract has an "oily" smell with about half of the nuances I get when I crush the tobacco between my finger tips. I think I extracted enough since its color is very close to the tobacco itself. I'm not sure though if I have over extracted at this time.

I'm barely a novice at NETs and never did a cigarette extraction so will be interested to see responses by those with experience. Yet I don't think one can over extract, though maybe you meant over cook?

I don't know what you mean by an "oily" smell though... Did the cook smell like the tobacco? Was the "oily" smell acrid or unpleasant?

I mixed up a 10mL 50/50 PG/VG juice with 25% extract and with a calculated 9 mg/mL nicotine level. It's a smooth vape with a slightly bitter finish. I'm hoping that it'll get more complexity in a week or two. There are no weird or off flavors. I'm also getting that oily nuance in the vape.

Does the smooth part of the vape taste like the tobacco smells?

As for the bitter finish and and oily nuance, that sounds to me (I could be wrong) like what happened to me on my first NET when I used PG for the extraction. I think I might have over cooked it a bit. But (unlike another member's experience here) that NET really filled out over the next 3 days, becoming much more flavorful and losing the nuances of that bitterness.

For the DIY'ers out here, when shall I expect the juice gain more complexity? Also does the extract itself "steep" too -- shall I expect its aroma from the bottle change too over time?

NETs from cigarette tobacco might be different than pipe tobacco NETs, I don't know, but when I read about doing NETs before I did mine, a veteran here who wrote a how-to said not to worry if the NET didn't have much taste right after the extraction.... that it would gain flavor and nuance over the next 24 hours, and continue to improve for the next week. That turned out to be true with my first PG NET.... it didn't have much flavor right afterward, and had a little weird smell to it... but that totally went away and by the next day it smelled heavenly, and just got better for about a week. Since then it held its own, not changing much since.

My second NET using 100% VG did not have to steep to taste great right out of the gate. Don't know if that was dumb luck in how the cooks went, or because PG NETs need a little steep time and VG doesn't.

IAC please let us know what it smells and vapes like tomorrow and for the next few days!

EDIT: Forgot to add that at least one veteran here who did cooks and also cold VG steeps said there wasn't much difference between the end results, so he was sticking with cooking b/c it was faster. However there is something to be said for just putting tobacco and VG (or PG if you prefer) in a jar on a shelf and leaving it a few weeks, then coming out with a NET. I haven't tried that but am going to go throw some Capt Black and VG in a jar right now.

 

[Trayce]

[...] then using two coffee filters that I twist into liquid-filled balls and force the liquid through by continuing to twist the closed tops of the filters. I intend to try the syringe and semi-packed cotton method on my upcoming pipe tobacco batches.

I did the same exact thing with the coffee filters, then finished with cotton in a syringe. One thing I'll say is all these methods sure soak up a lot of extraction... like the coffee filters really absorb a lot of the juice... then so does the cotton. Would be nice to be able to run it through some kind of filter that doesn't steal so much juice. Especially since you really aren't supposed to squeeze the heck out of the filter material or (they say) you're just forcing particulate matter back out into the NET.

PS I would guess that because you do such a long slow cook, that's why steeping doesn't change your NET. It's already fully developed by such a long cook.

 

[Chinook]

Thanks Trayce!

How did it smell? Like the tobacco? or was it bitter or acrid?

It wasn't bitter or acrid. Nothing unpleasant. It was kind of hay warmed under the sun plus microwave popcorn But not much what I'd call right there tobacco...

From my Edited post above:
Also, when I crush fresh ASO tobacco between my fingers and put my nose right next to the crushed tobacco, initially I get a strong but pleasant aroma. Then as a second note, I get this oily tobacco aroma. This is the "oily" aroma I'm mentioning. I guess in a way, it reminds of microwave popcorn smell, LOL !

I'm barely a novice at NETs and never did a cigarette extraction so will be interested to see responses by those with experience. Yet I don't think one can over extract, though maybe you meant over cook?

Yes, indeed I meant overcook

I don't know what you mean by an "oily" smell though... Did the cook smell like the tobacco? Was the "oily" smell acrid or unpleasant?
Does the smooth part of the vape taste like the tobacco smells?

The smooth part of the vape is very similar to the aroma I described above: sun warmed hay plus microwave popcorn

As for the bitter finish and and oily nuance, that sounds to me (I could be wrong) like what happened to me on my first NET when I used PG for the extraction. I think I might have over cooked it a bit. But (unlike another member's experience here) that NET really filled out over the next 3 days, becoming much more flavorful and losing the nuances of that bitterness.

I also read that some people mention the initial bitterness in the NET extracts and then smoothing out. I mean it's not that bitter. I'm vaping it at 9mg/mL nic (calculated) but it feels like it's at 16-18 mg/mL. That kind level of pepperiness/bitterness.

NETs from cigarette tobacco might be different than pipe tobacco NETs, I don't know, but when I read about doing NETs before I did mine, a veteran here who wrote a how-to said not to worry if the NET didn't have much taste right after the extraction.... that it would gain flavor and nuance over the next 24 hours, and continue to improve for the next week. That turned out to be true with my first PG NET.... it didn't have much flavor right afterward, and had a little weird smell to it... but that totally went away and by the next day it smelled heavenly, and just got better for about a week. Since then it held its own, not changing much since.

I vaped the juice right away, and then 6 hours later. I can tell the difference -- it gained more intensity. I'll vape it again in a bit. That'll be hour 10... What you wrote above is very promising

My second NET using 100% VG did not have to steep to taste great right out of the gate. Don't know if that was dumb luck in how the cooks went, or because PG NETs need a little steep time and VG doesn't.

I might also try the same with pure VG after reading your experiment. I'm just worried about heating up the VG too much and produce nasty chemicals. I think PG is more forgiving in overheating from what I read.

IAC please let us know what it smells and vapes like tomorrow and for the next few days!

I definitely will

EDIT: Forgot to add that at least one veteran here who did cooks and also cold VG steeps said there wasn't much difference between the end results, so he was sticking with cooking b/c it was faster. However there is something to be said for just putting tobacco and VG (or PG if you prefer) in a jar on a shelf and leaving it a few weeks, then coming out with a NET. I haven't tried that but am going to go throw some Capt Black and VG in a jar right now.

Yes, why not right? It just takes an extra jar. From what I read, heat ones have more intensity but less nuances, and cold ones less intensity but more nuances. But overall, very similar. We need some spectral analysis here

 

[Chinook]

I did the same exact thing with the coffee filters, then finished with cotton in a syringe. One thing I'll say is all these methods sure soak up a lot of extraction... like the coffee filters really absorb a lot of the juice... then so does the cotton. Would be nice to be able to run it through some kind of filter that doesn't steal so much juice. Especially since you really aren't supposed to squeeze the heck out of the filter material or (they say) you're just forcing particulate matter back out into the NET.

PS I would guess that because you do such a long slow cook, that's why steeping doesn't change your NET. It's already fully developed by such a long cook.

I did squeeze the hell out of cotton! The flattened cotton "plugs" inside the 30mL syringe came out almost dry I probably pushed out lot of particles through.

Next time, I might layer coffee filter rounds between two cotton layers.

If my experiments yield vape worthy NETs, I'll try some of those 1 micron syringe filters. Although I think Bill had difficulty with those. And I also read that with smaller sizes, it's almost impossible to squeeze out VG.

 

[billherbst]

By the way, how do your slow cooked extractions compare to weeks long cold maceration in general? Do see any big nuance differences or some subtle ones? It sounds like you prefer the slow simmered NETs.

I don't know. I haven't the patience to wait two weeks for an extraction. My first extraction started out cold, but after a week, I cooked it. What I've read on the various threads about NETs on ECF is that cold, slow macerations are more subtle, while heat-assisted, faster extractions are more bold and intense in flavor.

I haven't bought any 1 micron syringe filters and probably won't. The only 1 micron filters I found in a quick Google search were for a large quantity (like 100 or 1,000) with a price tag that I wasn't willing to pay. If I could get 25 1 micron filters for about $10-12 bucks shipped, I might try them.

 

[Chinook]

I don't know. I haven't the patience to wait two weeks for an extraction. My first extraction started out cold, but after a week, I cooked it. What I've read on the various threads about NETs on ECF is that cold, slow macerations are more subtle, while heat-assisted, faster extractions are more bold and intense in flavor.

I haven't bought any 1 micron syringe filters and probably won't. The only 1 micron filters I found in a quick Google search were for a large quantity (like 100 or 1,000) with a price tag that I wasn't willing to pay. If I could get 25 1 micron filters for about $10-12 bucks shipped, I might try them.

Thanks. I've been reading more or less the same for heat vs cold extractions.

Here are 10 filters but for about $20 shipped:

SEOH Syringe Filters Glass Fiber 25mm 1.2um 10pack: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

 

[BuffaloBore]

I've never had much luck with heat extractions. All I've tried came out much sweeter than I cared for and gunkier. My cold extracts on the other hand have yielded some very vape-worthy results by using a small glass tumbler half full of pipe tobacco covered with 80 proof vodka and left to emulsify/evaporate over the course of 10-12 days until all of the alcohol is gone and nothing but extract diluted with h2o is left. Put the tobacco/h2o mixture in a french coffee press with a coffee filter over the plunger, press and pour through another coffee filter to complete the process.

 

[Chinook]

I've never had much luck with heat extractions. All I've tried came out much sweeter than I cared for and gunkier. My cold extracts on the other hand have yielded some very vape-worthy results by using a small glass tumbler half full of pipe tobacco covered with 80 proof vodka and left to emulsify/evaporate over the course of 10-12 days until all of the alcohol is gone and nothing but extract diluted with h2o is left. Put the tobacco/h2o mixture in a french coffee press with a coffee filter over the plunger, press and pour through another coffee filter to complete the process.

Thanks! That's interesting. So you don't cover the glass tumbler?

And does the residual water with extract mix well with PG and VG?

 

[Trayce]

It wasn't bitter or acrid. Nothing unpleasant. It was kind of hay warmed under the sun plus microwave popcorn But not much what I'd call right there tobacco...

See, that's the disappointing part, and for ME anyway (in my extremely limited experience) PG is harder to do right in a cook than VG. Because PG is thinner and absorbs flavors/burns easier. (Or overcooks easier, boils at a lower temp, whatever you want to say).

(And sorry I asked about the oily smell again but your reply about that to the other poster hadn't appeared yet when I was writing my post.)

The smooth part of the vape is very similar to the aroma I described above: sun warmed hay plus microwave popcorn

... which is not tobacco and what you were going for.

I also read that some people mention the initial bitterness in the NET extracts and then smoothing out. I mean it's not that bitter. I'm vaping it at 9mg/mL nic (calculated) but it feels like it's at 16-18 mg/mL. That kind level of pepperiness/bitterness. [...] I vaped the juice right away, and then 6 hours later. I can tell the difference -- it gained more intensity. I'll vape it again in a bit. That'll be hour 10...

Really hope it starts to taste like the American Spirit tobacco smells, because that's what it SHOULD taste like.

I might also try the same with pure VG after reading your experiment. I'm just worried about heating up the VG too much and produce nasty chemicals. I think PG is more forgiving in overheating from what I read.

My experience was the exact opposite. But I guess everyone's attempts vary.

Re: cold NET by leaving tobacco and VG or PG in jar a few weeks:

Yes, why not right? It just takes an extra jar. From what I read, heat ones have more intensity but less nuances, and cold ones less intensity but more nuances. But overall, very similar. We need some spectral analysis here

I'm all for it. But bottom line is, what tastes best to you. I am looking forward to comparing the cold NET. I have made 3 NETs now with Captain Black and have all three dated and the details of how I did each. It's important to keep a log so you can repeat what you like and avoid or tweak the rest.

Let us know how the NET vapes over the next week... Good luck!

 

[Trayce]

I've never had much luck with heat extractions. All I've tried came out much sweeter than I cared for and gunkier. My cold extracts on the other hand have yielded some very vape-worthy results by using a small glass tumbler half full of pipe tobacco covered with 80 proof vodka and left to emulsify/evaporate over the course of 10-12 days until all of the alcohol is gone and nothing but extract diluted with h2o is left. Put the tobacco/h2o mixture in a french coffee press with a coffee filter over the plunger, press and pour through another coffee filter to complete the process.

Wow, that's interesting... so you don't use PG or VG. Isn't it harsh to vape? Can you drip it? How do you vape it?

 

[Jay-dub]

I was thinking I could just use my tobacco shredder to get a nice fine cut and brew it like making coffee (with less water of course).

 

[Trayce]

I was thinking I could just use my tobacco shredder to get a nice fine cut and brew it like making coffee (with less water of course).

If you try that start a new thread to let us all know how it came out!

 

[Chinook]

See, that's the disappointing part, and for ME anyway (in my extremely limited experience) PG is harder to do right in a cook than VG. Because PG is thinner and absorbs flavors/burns easier. (Or overcooks easier, boils at a lower temp, whatever you want to say).

(And sorry I asked about the oily smell again but your reply about that to the other poster hadn't appeared yet when I was writing my post.)

I will try VG next. Hopefully, early next week. Higher boiling point is a big plus here. I had to do PG first

No problems about asking smell -- I kept editing my post anyways!

... which is not tobacco and what you were going for.
Really hope it starts to taste like the American Spirit tobacco smells, because that's what it SHOULD taste like.

Thanks! Today, the extract smells more like tobacco and less "oily". It even has a touch of "ashtray" in it. I haven't vaped the juice yet today. I will in couple of hours.

BTW, I changed the coil in my tank just to check it. And it looked OK, even better than some of the vendor NETs I had for 1-1.5 mL of vaping. The coil had slight build up but not too bad.

Re: cold NET by leaving tobacco and VG or PG in jar a few weeks:

I'm all for it. But bottom line is, what tastes best to you. I am looking forward to comparing the cold NET. I have made 3 NETs now with Captain Black and have all three dated and the details of how I did each. It's important to keep a log so you can repeat what you like and avoid or tweak the rest.

I checked mine today. After a day not much color change and no aroma yet... That should give us a decent baseline to compare our hot extracts. By the way, with VG you might need longer steep probably, maybe a month or so?

I agree about the logs. I'm keeping it in an Excel sheet. I have one excel file with all of my vaping stuff in it. Cost, tasting notes, DIY mixing calculations and DIY log.

Let us know how the NET vapes over the next week... Good luck!

Sure I will! You too and good luck there too

 

[Trayce]

I will try VG next. Hopefully, early next week. Higher boiling point is a big plus here. I had to do PG first

I hear you, I did the same. And have no idea why since I can't even vape PG!! LOL!! That was in the instructions I read though, so I figured, eh... will try it. But the lower boiling of point of PG seemed like the reason to me (based on nothing but my intuition when I was doing the cook) for the acrid and bitterness of the first cook I did. Even though I was careful not to boil, I feel like it maybe simmered when I didn't want that either.

VG's boiling point is nearly 100C degrees higher (188C vs 290C or 370F vs 554F IIRC) ... so to me the VG was "kinder and smoother" in the cook process, "coaxing the flavors out" rather than burning them out. And you can see just how un-scientific my thinking is. But I produce NETs like I cook... never measure anything... just "Go With The Force, Luke" and it seems to come out better that way.

Today, the extract smells more like tobacco and less "oily". It even has a touch of "ashtray" in it. I haven't vaped the juice yet today. I will in couple of hours.

Is a touch of ashtray good or bad?

BTW, I changed the coil in my tank just to check it. And it looked OK, even better than some of the vendor NETs I had for 1-1.5 mL of vaping. The coil had slight build up but not too bad.

If making micro-coils you can also remove the wick and dry-burn it clean, which I'm sure you know. But for purposes of testing a new NET, especially on your maiden voyage, a fresh coil is a good idea. (And as always if using rubber grommets a dry burn can be a bad idea.)

I checked mine today. After a day not much color change and no aroma yet... That should give us a decent baseline to compare our hot extracts. By the way, with VG you might need longer steep probably, maybe a month or so?

Yeah, I thought so too. No problemo. I bought 4 qts of VG because it was cheaper that way (free shipping) and so have plenty to experiment with.

I agree about the logs. I'm keeping it in an Excel sheet. I have one excel file with all of my vaping stuff in it. Cost, tasting notes, DIY mixing calculations and DIY log.

That's the ticket. I have a folder with all my vape stuff... with subfolders for everything from the mods I've done to pics posted here, to NETS and DIY recipes, to my rebuilds and setups. A place for everything and everything in its place. I might be borderline OC.

Looking forward to continued reports on the American Spirit NET!

 

[Chinook]

VG's boiling point is nearly 100C degrees higher (188C vs 290C or 370F vs 554F IIRC) ... so to me the VG was "kinder and smoother" in the cook process, "coaxing the flavors out" rather than burning them out. And you can see just how un-scientific my thinking is. But I produce NETs like I cook... never measure anything... just "Go With The Force, Luke" and it seems to come out better that way.

He he, I hear you. I'm looking forward to my VG experiment.... That's the way science progresses too. Bad results can be good too in a way

Is a touch of ashtray good or bad?

I put it down as positive. I don't get it in the vape (yet). That's the tobacco absolute that they put in some juices I think! I guess that got extracted out too...

If making micro-coils you can also remove the wick and dry-burn it clean, which I'm sure you know. But for purposes of testing a new NET, especially on your maiden voyage, a fresh coil is a good idea. (And as always if using rubber grommets a dry burn can be a bad idea.)

No micro coils yet for me. The way it is I'm spending so much time on vaping. Hopefully, in the near future, once I settle on a few vendor juices and my DIYs.

Yeah, I thought so too. No problemo. I bought 4 qts of VG because it was cheaper that way (free shipping) and so have plenty to experiment with.

That's lots of juice for you

That's the ticket. I have a folder with all my vape stuff... with subfolders for everything from the mods I've done to pics posted here, to NETS and DIY recipes, to my rebuilds and setups. A place for everything and everything in its place. I might be borderline OC.

He he , I though I was bad

Looking forward to continued reports on the American Spirit NET!

Cheers!

 

[mad maori]

i find pg works best.. to strain after cooking i just pess it through a tea strainer lined with 500 ss mesh.. then put in a syringe with cotton, double filter i guess..lol