New analysis of smoking and schizophrenia suggests causal link

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nicnik

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I've read a few more articles on this, and yes, they are interchanging smoking/nicotine/tobacco like they are all the same thing. Not only the media articles, but quotes from the researchers, too. I smell a deceitful plot against THR.

Another scare headline:

Does nicotine in cigarettes lead to a greater incidence of schizophrenia? - National Monitor
 

Lessifer

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I've read a few more articles on this, and yes, they are interchanging smoking/nicotine/tobacco like they are all the same thing. Not only the media articles, but quotes from the researchers, too. I smell a deceitful plot against THR.

Another scare headline:

Does nicotine in cigarettes lead to a greater incidence of schizophrenia? - National Monitor
Well, they have to find something to counter "smoke for the nicotine, die from the tar"

and if they can't find something, they'll just tweak the data a little differently in order to "discover" it.
 

azb8496

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I've read a few more articles on this, and yes, they are interchanging smoking/nicotine/tobacco like they are all the same thing. Not only the media articles, but quotes from the researchers, too. I smell a deceitful plot against THR.

Another scare headline:

Does nicotine in cigarettes lead to a greater incidence of schizophrenia? - National Monitor

I think that this is the only inevitable social conclusion that this study would lead to right now. We were all thinking it. Let's continue to keep tabs on it though ;) thank you nicnik.
 

nicnik

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The common thread of junk science. Idiots don't see the 'possible' - hence it makes it "news".
There are layers of "possible" in this. 'Possibly the dopamine boost', therefore 'possible that smoking causes schizophrenia', and then 'possibly the nicotine boost of dopamine causes schizophrenia'. But they also freely interchange smoking/tobacco/nicotine. This makes for a chaotic mess that doesn't appear very science-like.
 

Jman8

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I've read a few more articles on this, and yes, they are interchanging smoking/nicotine/tobacco like they are all the same thing. Not only the media articles, but quotes from the researchers, too. I smell a deceitful plot against THR.

Another scare headline:

Does nicotine in cigarettes lead to a greater incidence of schizophrenia? - National Monitor

Another scare headline (that you'll never see in relation to this point):

Current Leader of the Free World was a Smoker when He was Elected
 

azb8496

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The common thread of junk science. Idiots don't see the 'possible' - hence it makes it "news".

I'll try to be diplomatic about this. You are wrong! Idiots see the possible. Hence, they reported their possibility-based conclusions.

Just bustin' yer chops, btw. You are correct at the same time.
 
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Kent C

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I'll try to be diplomatic about this. You are wrong! Idiots see the possible. Hence, they reported their possibility-based conclusions.

Just bustin' yer chops, btw. You are correct at the same time.

I'd tend to agree - Idiots see the 'possible' as reality (not as a possibility). Those who write it though, know this. The current diacetyl thread - which I now have on ignore - devolved into possible, likely, could be - all fear mongering - well camouflaged though.
 
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nicnik

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Another scare headline (that you'll never see in relation to this point):

Current Leader of the Free World was a Smoker when He was Elected

New Explanation for Objections to Junk Science

Researchers Discover The Cause Of Atlas Shrugged

E-Cigarette Forum Infested With Psychotic Participants
 
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Jingles

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Does this mean that the percentage of Schizophreniacs has actually decreased in the last 40-50 years since there are less smokers now then before? I want to see those figures! What percentage of the population is diagnosed currently with schizophrenia compared to 50 years ago? There should be a lot less now if smoking causes schizophrenia!
 

nicnik

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Does this mean that the percentage of Schizophreniacs has actually decreased in the last 40-50 years since there are less smokers now then before? I want to see those figures! What percentage of the population is diagnosed currently with schizophrenia compared to 50 years ago? There should be a lot less now if smoking causes schizophrenia!

It wouldn't necessarily result in fewer cases, since there could be other factors that are more and more increasing the prevalence more than the decline in smoking would be decreasing it, or perhaps new contributors are pushing them up.

There's a really unintelligent BBC article about this research that has a quote from the Rethinking Mental Illness Foundation, or something like that, that implies new knowledge is bad, saying this is bad news, even though this new theory would be good news for schizophrenia if true, because of declines in smoking, and all this belief in patches, gum and pills.
 

AndriaD

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Talk radio is the largest cause of Schizophrenia.

Actually, I think being online is the chief cause; perfectly nice normal guys have been known to turn into Satan Incarnate, just by going online. That was even true before the www, when it was just BBS's everywhere.

Andria
 

nicnik

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BBC: Smoking 'may play schizophrenia role'

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-33464480

Watch how the author of this BBC article misrepresents the study, then inserts a quote that shows that he has not been paying attention, then he reappears to misrepresent it in another way. After that I guess he got further distracted, and went off in another direction.
The argument is that if there is a higher rate of smoking before schizophrenia is diagnosed, then smoking is not simply a case of self-medication.

Dr James MacCabe, from the Institute of Psychiatry, Psychology and Neuroscience at King's, said: "It's very difficult to establish causation [with this style of study], what we're hoping that this does is really open our eyes to the possibility that tobacco could be a causative agent in psychosis, and we hope this will then lead to other research and clinical trials that would help to provide firmer evidence."

Clearly most smokers do not develop schizophrenia, but the researchers believe it is increasing the risk.
That first misrepresentation fully implies that smoking causes schizophrenia, since this research is showing that there IS a higher rate of smoking before schizophrenia is diagnosed. He also seems unaware of the most common and well-known logic fallacy with his invalid if/then assumption. The second misrepresentation changes the researchers' belief that it MAY POSSIBLY be increasing the risk, to belief that "IT IS increasing the risk". So he freely changes is to if and maybe to is. No wonder he seems dizzy. He's going in circles.

Later in the article:
Prof Michael Owen, the director of the Institute of Psychological Medicine at Cardiff University, said the researchers had made a "pretty strong case" that smoking may increase the risk of schizophrenia.

"The fact is that it is very hard to prove causation without a randomised trial, but there are plenty of good reasons already for targeting public health measures very energetically at the mentally ill."

I don't trust this guy's plans of targeting. It doesn't sound to me like his targeting will be anywhere near as humane as THR. "Pretty strong case." Give me a break. I'm going to register at the Lancet and read the full text.

And then the rethinkers, who seem hopelessly lost:
The charity Rethink Mental Illness said: "We know that 42% of all cigarettes smoked in England are by people with mental health problems, and so any new findings about the link between smoking and psychosis is a potential worry."
Knowledge is bad. I didn't know that. Stop learning stuff, everybody.
 
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madangus

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I've heard some fascinating stuff about how schizophrenia (the most misdiagnosed and misunderstood of the misdiagnosed and misunderstood) doesn't tend to develop in rural areas, but is accelerated and aggrevated by modern cities. Can't remember more specifics.

Anything related to mental illness so quickly reveals we know little about it. MOAIs (prozac etc) may boost serotonin which may play a pert in releving depression. May, might, but we really have no clue.

There was a doctor in england who began prescribing tlstoy to the depressed since they had so little faith in medication.

I think mental illness is so terrifying to most people, society desperately wants a scapegoat or quick fix. The real questions are somfar reaching we can't touch them. Why are people depressed? Well gee environmental collapse, economic insecurity, no job, yeah why are they depressed? Nicotine! Video games! Lack of yoga!

Sorry went off on mant tangents there. I've seen the exact same thing bubble up before and it's a real sllippery fish indeed. And the research so far amounts tomwe don't know. Again. But hey we stopped electroshock!


Sigh
 
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