New analysis of smoking and schizophrenia suggests causal link

[AndriaD]

I've heard some fascinating stuff about how schizophrenia (the most misdiagnosed and misunderstood of the misdiagnosed and misunderstood) doesn't tend to develop in rural areas, but is accelerated and aggrevated by modern cities. Can't remember more specifics.

Anything related to mental illness so quickly reveals we know little about it. MOAIs (prozac etc) may boost serotonin which may play a pert in releving depression. May, might, but we really have no clue.

There was a doctor in england who began prescribing tlstoy to the depressed since they had so little faith in medication.

I think mental illness is so terrifying to most people, society desperately wants a scapegoat or quick fix. The real questions are somfar reaching we can't touch them. Why are people depressed? Well gee environmental collapse, economic insecurity, no job, yeah why are they depressed? Nicotine! Video games! Lack of yoga!

Sorry went off on mant tangents there. I've seen the exact same thing bubble up before and it's a real sllippery fish indeed. And the research so far amounts tomwe don't know. Again. But hey we stopped electroshock!


Sigh

Here's some more misunderstanding: Prozac is not an MAOI; it is an SSRI -- Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitor, which works in quite a different way from Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitors (MAOIs). Monoamine oxidase oxidizes, or destroys, a wide range of neurotransmitters, which is why inhibiting its function is a good thing; SSRIs work only on serotonin (just one neurotransmitter), while Effexor (and meds like it) also function as a re-uptake inhibitor for norepinephrine along with serotonin.

Andria

 

[Puff2K]

I've heard some fascinating stuff about how schizophrenia (the most misdiagnosed and misunderstood of the misdiagnosed and misunderstood) doesn't tend to develop in rural areas, but is accelerated and aggrevated by modern cities. Can't remember more specifics.

Anything related to mental illness so quickly reveals we know little about it. MOAIs (prozac etc) may boost serotonin which may play a pert in releving depression. May, might, but we really have no clue.

There was a doctor in england who began prescribing tlstoy to the depressed since they had so little faith in medication.

I think mental illness is so terrifying to most people, society desperately wants a scapegoat or quick fix. The real questions are somfar reaching we can't touch them. Why are people depressed? Well gee environmental collapse, economic insecurity, no job, yeah why are they depressed? Nicotine! Video games! Lack of yoga!

Sorry went off on mant tangents there. I've seen the exact same thing bubble up before and it's a real sllippery fish indeed. And the research so far amounts tomwe don't know. Again. But hey we stopped electroshock!


Sigh

They still do electroshock.

 

[Robert Cromwell]

Some of the newer mods have electro shock built in?

 

[madangus]

Here's some more misunderstanding: Prozac is not an MAOI; it is an SSRI -- Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitor, which works in quite a different way from Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitors (MAOIs). Monoamine oxidase oxidizes, or destroys, a wide range of neurotransmitters, which is why inhibiting its function is a good thing; SSRIs work only on serotonin (just one neurotransmitter), while Effexor (and meds like it) also function as a re-uptake inhibitor for norepinephrine along with serotonin.

Andria

Oops. yeah that was a late night mental bannana peel I know ssri's tend to have less of a seditave effect than the generation before the moais. That and for other reasons they are generally considered a big improvement. I still haven't heard anyone in the profession be able to say with 100% conviction we know why ssris actually work though. Maybe I am out of date?

I guess the point of the long ramble was we don't know much, and what we do know gets revised every decade and that there is at least a bias towards blaming substances and finding relatively cheap fixes like pills, versus say cognitive behavior therapy or other really time intensive ways to help. And that maybe some of the things about modern society might just not be great for people.

For the specific smoking stuff This just seems like research offering up another question more than anything. And an easy way to avoid some really hard questions about schizophrenia (which has been reclassified several times over the years)

 

[AndriaD]

Oops. yeah that was a late night mental bannana peel I know ssri's tend to have less of a seditave effect than the generation before the moais. That and for other reasons they are generally considered a big improvement. I still haven't heard anyone in the profession be able to say with 100% conviction we know why ssris actually work though. Maybe I am out of date?

I guess the point of the long ramble was we don't know much, and what we do know gets revised every decade and that there is at least a bias towards blaming substances and finding relatively cheap fixes like pills, versus say cognitive behavior therapy or other really time intensive ways to help. And that maybe some of the things about modern society might just not be great for people.

For the specific smoking stuff This just seems like research offering up another question more than anything. And an easy way to avoid some really hard questions about schizophrenia (which has been reclassified several times over the years)

I've read various things about how and why SSRIs work, but to be honest, I don't recall the exact details; something that they do basically enables higher continuous levels of serotonin, which perhaps also leads to higher levels of other neurotransmitters, like dopamine. I really found zero sedative effect with either Prozac or Effexor; I found both effective, at different times, but I also had to pay the piper for 2 yrs use of Effexor with about the same time given to withdrawal from Effexor, and even that slowly, it was very, very difficult. I suppose that is inevitable when clumsy humans start mucking around with the basic chemistry of the brain -- you can fix things, but there's a cost.

I do think that smoking is self-medication, because of its role in stress-reduction, and of course we all know the very high cost of smoking -- durn near impossible withdrawal, and the various health problems it contributes to. Hopefully vaping can enable carrying on with the self-medication, at a far lower cost.

Andria

 

[Robert Cromwell]

Do we have more mental illness now or is it that more is diagnosed than before?

 

[AndriaD]

Do we have more mental illness now or is it that more is diagnosed than before?

The latter I think, though it's entirely possible that there really is more; modern life is very psychologically challenging. But I also think that the idiot TV commercials allow hypochondriacs to imagine themselves afflicted with all sorts of things they might otherwise never have known existed.

Andria

 

[madangus]

Probably more diagnosed, that woukd seem to make sense just on a layman level.

i have read that depression has increased with more people living alone, a lot of the financial turmoil, the fact that there is a wider gap between folks doing ok and those barely hanging on... I think the WHO had called it out as reaching epedemic levels over the last decade. That seems to make sense to me too, though in a very common sense non emperical way.

 

[madangus]

The latter I think, though it's entirely possible that there really is more; modern life is very psychologically challenging. But I also think that the idiot TV commercials allow hypochondriacs to imagine themselves afflicted with all sorts of things they might otherwise never have known existed.

Andria

Worried about feeling shy? Take pill x... Side effects may include death or uncontrolled bleeding, dizziness, nausea.. Lol

I do think that a lot of rowdy kids are getting slapped with adhd just because its easier toshut them up, which is sad.

Generally i think that the more sensitive, smart souls are going to be a bit more inclined to melancholy... So maybe the term depression isn't helpful for that at all.

 

[AndriaD]

Worried about feeling shy? Take pill x... Side effects may include death or uncontrolled bleeding, dizziness, nausea.. Lol

I do think that a lot of rowdy kids are getting slapped with adhd just because its easier toshut them up, which is sad.

Generally i think that the more sensitive, smart souls are going to be a bit more inclined to melancholy... So maybe the term depression isn't helpful for that at all.

Depression is actually a very insidious coping mechanism; if one is deeply angry and/or anxious but has never been free to express that anger or expose that anxiety, depression allows one to carry on, even if in a very reduced capacity. I discovered this for myself, and the reason why it's imperative that one also be receiving therapy when taking antidepressants; if the medication yanks that depression away, sometimes rage emerges, or the fears come out to play -- or both. It can get real ugly before it's mended.

Depression is so much more than mere melancholy, words cannot even express it. I've been to that place where I really thought death would be preferable to carrying on, and I hope I never have to visit again.

Andria

 

[jpargana]

Pay no mind to the schizophrenics who have never smoked. Wait, I know, they ate too many tomatoes or eggplants. That devilish nicotine is everywhere!

No. It cannot possibly be from eating healthy food...!

Wait... I understand know. Those poor never-smoker schizophrenics were victims, once again, of the SHS produced by filthy, inconsiderate smokers !! SHS is a gateway for children becoming schizophrenics instead of living a normal life. Let's ban tobacco smoke, and e-cig emissions as well, *everywhere*

 

[madangus]

Depression is actually a very insidious coping mechanism; if one is deeply angry and/or anxious but has never been free to express that anger or expose that anxiety, depression allows one to carry on, even if in a very reduced capacity. I discovered this for myself, and the reason why it's imperative that one also be receiving therapy when taking antidepressants; if the medication yanks that depression away, sometimes rage emerges, or the fears come out to play -- or both. It can get real ugly before it's mended.

Depression is so much more than mere melancholy, words cannot even express it. I've been to that place where I really thought death would be preferable to carrying on, and I hope I never have to visit again.

Andria

I wasn't trying to compare serious debilitating levels of depression, where people are suicidal to melancholy. Not belitting it in any way. There is a wide continuim. I just think that for some sensitive folks who pay attention to the world, labelling the sadness a 'disorder' instead of what could be seen as a logical reaction could be counterproductive but it does make it easy to put it in a box and fix it.

And if the milder forms that were never classed as depression before now are, that could be some of the reason for it increasing.

Medication I think can be good for the short term, maybe long term in some people, but without therapy or a change in situation just wallpaper.

I've seen people struggle with it their whole lives, and one sweet soul who ended up succumbing to schizophrenia. The level of care, the medication, so much of the time I think its inadequate and it makes me sad to say the least.

I hope you never go there again too andria and i'm sorry if i seemed to be belitting it. Believe me I was not.

 

[AndriaD]

I wasn't trying to compare serious debilitating levels of depression, where people are suicidal to melancholy. Not belitting it in any way. There is a wide continuim. I just think that for some sensitive folks who pay attention to the world, labelling the sadness a 'disorder' instead of what could be seen as a logical reaction could be counterproductive but it does make it easy to put it in a box and fix it.

And if the milder forms that were never classed as depression before now are, that could be some of the reason for it increasing.

Medication I think can be good for the short term, maybe long term in some people, but without therapy or a change in situation just wallpaper.

I've seen people struggle with it their whole lives, and one sweet soul who ended up succumbing to schizophrenia. The level of care, the medication, so much of the time I think its inadequate and it makes me sad to say the least.

I hope you never go there again too andria and i'm sorry if i seemed to be belitting it. Believe me I was not.

I think it's probably a normal reaction too, or as one shrink I used to see put it, about my hideous anxiety about riding in a car in heavy traffic -- it's a wholly rational fear, with a completely irrational reaction to it -- normal to feel some sadness, in reaction to world events or events in one's own life, but sometimes that normal reaction becomes pathologic; genetics, hormonal fluctuations, or previous traumas in one's life can make one much more prone to that pathologic extreme.

I didn't think you were belittling it, but I always try to do anything I can to counter the still-universal tendency that some have, that just telling someone "snap out of it!" can do any good. It's like telling someone to snap out of an asthma attack or diabetic coma -- it won't work at all, and in the case of depression, can actually make things worse, by implying that the depressed person has some control over it -- they don't, not really. One can 'put on a happy face' if needed, but it merely serves to shove whatever-it-is further under the rug of the subconscious, ultimately detrimental.

I don't know a great deal about schizophrenia; thankfully in my own bag of mental/emotional dysfunction, that one is missing. I've been on nodding terms with OCD, though it never became truly debilitating; more of a tendency than a true pathology, and I think it was actually more of a symptom of PTSD than anything else.

Andria

 

[madangus]

I've corrected a few people over the years for trying 'just snap out of it'. Much more about the advisors fear of mental fragility/impatience etc than anything to do with the soul who is injured. I never understood how people cannot just pause for a second while they have the thought and realize well maybe that sounds too easy to be true.

Offering to just be quiet and listen or say go for a walk together or so many other things would be a lot more helpful. Or at least not thoughtless at best or just trite and mean at worst.

 

[Robert Cromwell]

I am just very weary of a lifetime of fighting it.

 

[Kent C]

I am just very weary of a lifetime of fighting it.

Jefferson's "eternal vigilance" is a lot harder than making an idiot placard and chanting idiotic rants, in what are usually small 'rallies' made to look larger by the lapdog liberal media. However, one could make a case that the latter is more effective because of the audience, brainwashed by the gov't schools, believe it. There is nothing more 'conformist' than the so called 'non-conformists'. this applies to other threads, but this one as well.

 

[Robert Cromwell]

Jefferson's "eternal vigilance" is a lot harder than making an idiot placard and chanting idiotic rants, in what are usually small 'rallies' made to look larger by the lapdog liberal media. However, one could make a case that the latter is more effective because of the audience, brainwashed by the gov't schools, believe it. There is nothing more 'conformist' than the so called 'non-conformists'. this applies to other threads, but this one as well.

Ohh??? I was referring to anxiety and depression. But I agree I have given up on politics. I have given up on both the liberal and conservative media sources. And TV as well I watch a couple of shows a month on DIY or PBS and that is it. Movies on the net mostly and silly cat and dog videos. One with a parrot playing peekaboo was cute yesterday.
I have a brother in law that is making documentaries and I HAVE to watch all of those, but they are pretty good so far and he sends me DVDs of them as well.

 

[nicnik]

I watch a couple of shows a month on DIY or PBS and that is it.

Someday, maybe we'll see a DIY vaping show on PBS. Are there any "chefs" in the DIY forum who would be TV friendly like Julia Childs?

 

[Lessifer]

perhaps I'm not reading closely enough, I haven't given it my full attention. It looks like they found the median age of smoking onset, and compared that to the median age of onset of psychosis, and found a minimally significant difference. I was never great at these types of studies, but I don't think that really tells us what they're saying it tells us.

 

[Kent C]

perhaps I'm not reading closely enough, I haven't given it my full attention. It looks like they found the median age of smoking onset, and compared that to the median age of onset of psychosis, and found a minimally significant difference. I was never great at these types of studies, but I don't think that really tells us what they're saying it tells us.

Just more junk science. If they can't demonize smokers anymore by telling them they're nuts because only nutcases smoke, then perhaps you can convince them they're nuts from smoking. Just reverse the fake correlation.