New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

[Katya]

Well, I can taste iron with Kanthal even after an oxide scale is formed. So ...

Nothing is perfect in real life, is it?

According to Magaro, our metallurgist friend:

"Kanthal is designed to be protected by a continuous layer of aluminum oxide. If you oxidize Kanthal too much (or too many times), you can deplete the aluminum in the near surface region of the wire. Then the chromium in the alloy will preferentially migrate to the surface to oxidize, along with the iron. This new scale is, according to my quick first look at the technical literature, less adherent to the base metal and can spall off. Presumably then it could be inhaled. It would be nice to know where this occurs in the life of a coil for different styles of cleaning - dry burn vs not. It's not just about fresh coils, but how they age."

I've said if before and I'll say it again: the only right way to determine exact amounts of metals, acrolein, various aldehydes, and whatever other nasties we may worry about in vapor are direct measurements of vapor composition in real world settings. Everything else is just educated guessing.

Dr. Farsalinos promised to do a wire study. I hope he'll do it soon.

 

[Mazinny]

KFL came out way after the first Protanks.

Are you sure ? I think they both came out in 2012/2013 or so. Let's see if i can do some research

 

[Katya]

I'm not sure that there's such a neat and clear demarcation line. Aerotanks for example did have air flow control, and KFl's didn't. You could ( and many did ) build coils for the KFL using 30g and 32g wire. KFL's came out around the same time as Protanks, if i remember correctly. I do get your point though.

Very true. We may have to ask @Kurt how he defines those three generations.

 

[Katya]

I'd define Gen 3 as Post 15 Watt. G'luck.

I vape my Kayfun 5 and Subtank mini at 10-12 watts.

 

[Myrany]

Are you sure ? I think they both came out in 2012/2013 or so. Let's see if i can do some research

I know I had been using my PT1s many months before I started hearing about the Kayfun lites. In fact before the Kayfuns came the Genny craze.

 

[Katya]

Elements moving around in a Iron Alloy Solid Solution below say Cherry Red is Kinda Amazing.

It is?

I love you guys!

 

[Mazinny]

Very true. We may have to ask @Kurt how he defines those three generations.

I don't think Kurt considers RtA's as part of any generation. He has said that he will only do tests on devices with ready made coils in the market.

 

[MacTechVpr]

I vape my Kayfun 5 and Subtank mini at 10-12 watts.

I didn't say they were mutually exclusive.

Good luck.

 

[Mazinny]

I know I had been using my PT1s many months before I started hearing about the Kayfun lites. In fact before the Kayfuns came the Genny craze.

Well these two links state that they both came out in 2013, but i can't vouch for either. I remember they where both brand new in the market when i started vaping though.

The Ultimate Kayfun Resource | IronMouth
Hardware Review: Kanger Protank (original model)

 

[Katya]

I don't think Kurt considers RtA's as part of any generation. He has said that he will only do tests on devices with ready made coils in the market.

Oh, sorry. So that would narrow it (3rd gen) down to sub-ohm tanks, right?

 

[Myrany]

Well these two links state that they both came out in 2013, but i can't vouch for either. I remember they where both brand new in the market when i started vaping though.

The Ultimate Kayfun Resource | IronMouth
Hardware Review: Kanger Protank (original model)

Protank was out first as I remember it.

Edit: I should probably mention I got my paws on a Protank from the first batch of them. So about as early as the general public could. That first batch sold out everywhere near instantly.

 

[Mazinny]

Oh, sorry. So that would narrow it (3rd gen) down to sub-ohm tanks, right?

Perhaps. I don't think it really matters what we call them though. We all know that we shouldn't apply too much power if there isn't sufficient coil mass, air flow and juice flow. That's all that should matter imo.

 

[Katya]

Perhaps. I don't think it really matters what we call them though. We all know that we shouldn't apply too much power if there isn't sufficient coil mass, air flow and juice flow. That's all that should matter imo.

Right. And I used the term sub-ohm in quotes. Another old-time term that makes little sense today, actually. Just like "mod." And totally confuses new vapers.

 

[Mazinny]

Protank was out first as I remember it.

Edit: I should probably mention I got my paws on a Protank from the first batch of them. So about as early as the general public could. That first batch sold out everywhere near instantly.

Perhaps one came out a few months before the other, i honestly don't remember, but i'll take your word for it

 

[Mazinny]

Right. And I used the term sub-ohm in quotes. Another old-time term that makes little sense today, actually. Just like "mod." And totally confuses new vapers.

Yeah, nothing magical happens when you go from 1.05 to 0.95 ohms !

 

[MacTechVpr]

Well these two links state that they both came out in 2013, but i can't vouch for either. I remember they where both brand new in the market when i started vaping though.

The Ultimate Kayfun Resource | IronMouth
Hardware Review: Kanger Protank (original model)

I purchased my first pair of Protanks (and Sig's to drive 'em), the first of many I used for testing, the 1st week Jul '13, from the outlet of a large dist/importer here in S FL. They were liberally available here in Aug by the time of the review.

Good luck.

 

[Mazinny]

I purchased my first pair of Protanks (and Sig's to drive 'em), the first of many I used for testing, the 1st week Jul '13, from the outlet of a large dist/importer here in S FL. They were liberally available here in Aug by the time of the review.

Good luck.

Yeah i remember ! I was one of the beneficiaries of your testing. Grateful to this day

 

[GeorgeS]

I'm guessing:

1. 1st gen - cigalikes, cartridges, cartimizers
2. 2nd gen - top coil clearomizers
3. 3rd gen - bottom coil clearomizers (the Nautilus and STM fit in here)

Funny that the Nautilus sports fairly thin wire and both it and the STM were rated as having very low undesired gasses emitted.

The (4th gen?) Atlantis (and the like) noted the move to much thicker wire.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Yeah i remember ! I was one of the beneficiaries of your testing. Grateful to this day

Thx Maz for the nod and all those great tab samples you sent me back then. Much appreciated and ultimately got me seriously into DIY (for myself, not just test blends for the folks). That was worth a million and I'm afraid I never properly thanked you.

Good luck.

 

[Mazinny]

Thx Maz for the nod and all those great tab samples you sent me back then. Much appreciated and ultimately got me seriously into DIY (for myself, not just test blends for the folks). That was worth a million and I'm afraid I never properly thanked you.

Good luck.

You did thank me, properly too !

You'll be glad to know i use a pin-vise to wrap my coils to this day, with proper tension too, and quite fast. Can do it blind-folded !