New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers
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People are also now beginning to lose interest in temp control. It's just not as popular as when it was first released. It was a big thing when it first came out during the advent of sub ohm vaping to prevent dry hits in droppers and tanks. The earlier sub-ohm tanks had more restrictive air flow and people were getting dry hits.
With improving technology regarding air flow and cotton and coil configurations a sub ohm tank can be puffed several times without a dry hit. Therefore temp control has diminished in popularity.
Another interesting aspect is how some of these pod mods which are designed mainly for those quitting smoking are inherently temperature controlled. I believe both the Pax Juul and the Eleaf ICare
have inherent temp control. In these devices suited for beginners the temp control is built in so the new user never knows about it and doesn't have to fiddle with it.
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I suspect that in the post PMTA USA, the Juuls of the world are the tech everything will be. I.e. builtin, learning curve proof, temp control. For the very reasons that this study highlights. Bad stuff happens above "X" degrees, so devices wont be allowed to exceed "X".
Tried that, good luck, you cant get the camera inside the closed chamber. If the chamber is open then you have no airflow.
What would be Interesting is to do that using TC Mod/Coil.
And then Compare the Temperatures you get to what the Temperature Limit that TC was set at.
I could be wrong here, but the way temp continues to ramp up without TC probably means that there is no safe zone.
My fear is that people will take this information and start jumping to conclusions, as people are wont to do. It's already come up a few times in this thread. "Oh no! How do I know if I'm safe?!"
Of course, the actual answer is you don't REALLY know, however, you can make a pretty good assumption. If you're running at reasonable power levels for your build and device, and you're not getting an acrid taste, you're probably in or close to a safe running temperature.
I don't know at what level people can detect formaldehyde, it's probably different for everyone, but it's not really a "taste." If you've ever had a really bad dry hit, there is definitely a taste, but that taste is accompanied by a sharp burning feeling in your throat, similar to "throat hit" but much more intense.
You're probably right, I just hope that there will be enough variety to satisfy as many people as possible.
I just measured with an infrared thermometer. 1.1 Ohms, 24 watts never even got the coil (with no airflow) over 100C. That makes sense, the water in the juice boiled, evaporation cools.
True. Which is why I choose VW and mechanicals over TC. I rely on my fleshy sensors and wetware chipset to tell me if I'm getting it wrong. If some bad compounds are getting through that I'm not detecting, then so be it.
I did, and it was pretty damn close. The wattage it needed was a lot lower than a normal vape though. It doesnt take much wattage to maintain 440F when there is no airflow.
I avoided learning about tc because I found the vape I like with kanthal.What SS wire is the most accurate in TC and does 350j do SS accurately?
Thanks
Correct. My bad. 40 µg not 500. Thank you. Still significantly higher than that seen in Kistler's work. And still, wattage and temperature do correlate. Here is a real world graph.
So, for a 450F temperature, my TC board put our 75W for 1 second (my preference to get to 450F fast) then maintained that temp at 30W for a period of time to keep it at 450F, then lowered the power the longer I held the fire button for to keep it from exceeding my set temperature. Without TC, the 30W would continue to be applied as long as I held the fire button, exceeding the 450F target, namely when your vape gets too hot at the end of a draw (the nice thing about TC).
Unfortunately, I can't capture temperature in Device Monitor when in power/watt mode. But I think it is reasonable to assume a continually rising temperature line as opposed to the curve above. Regardless, I was able to achieve a temperature of ~450F with 30W. That's not out of left field when looking at Kistler's results. It is difficult to imagine a Subtank coil of 0.5 ohm being dramatically different than my home brewed 0.5 ohm coil (the purple line above). Now if Kistler had tested the 1.5 ohm subtank coil instead and ran that at 26W without a lot of nasty stuff being produced, I'd be even more impressed.
We all agree here. High temp bad. Lower temp safer. Is TC required to assure you never reach unsafe temperatures? Unknown because TC was never actually tested. TC may certainly be a useful tool to prevent exceeding specific temperatures, but that does not automatically discount simply correlating temperatures to what can be achieved at a given power/wattage setting.
What would be fantastic as a follow up study, would be to actually measure the presence of the aldehydes using a tc mod running at say 500F. And run it through a range of temps.
Particularly when chain vaping. If you rotated your hits across multiple mods it would decrease this effect as Puff #1 was always the coolest.
What SS wire is the most accurate in TC and does 350j do SS accurately?
Thanks
I have heard good things about the 350j, but I dont own one myself.
Cool.
That would tell me that my Camera numbers were Jiving with my TC numbers.
Now if Ariflow could be Reasonable replicated, it seem that you would be Close to being able to Test Non-TC builds.
OTOH - I drank the way I drank, that's why I'm sober.
I smoked the way I smoked and I vape the way I vape.
I do how I do.
I have a couple of REOs & a big mech squonker for when our OLED screens die in 10 years. They're not satisfactory (to me) but they'll make sufficient (unsatisfactory or not) backups.
I like ~70W with a tiny preheat out-puff to get the coil up to temp before a 1-2 second DL draw. That's how I vape. It's what keeps me smoke-free & satisfied.
I'll try to get an "accurate" (TC using my usual tank) feel for borderline "safe" to compare my satisfactory vape to.
IOW - my #1 puff is already preheated
And even better, on the same setup, run through a series of fixed power levels/wattage and measure the presence of aldehydes for the same puff time as under TC.
I tried blowing a fan over it, wattage still a lot lower. Temp maintained though, with and without the fan.
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