New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers
- Thread starter mikepetro
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
It may be awhile, normally I use prime but it offered me some weird "shipping" options and I failed to read them before hitting "order" (I am used to prime defaulting) and it says "By Jan 29th or Feb 2nd.) LOL. I will try to remember to report back, although I think I'm going to remember because I am really interested in this stuff... taste, sensations, getting a little less cloudy, and everything else. 
Anna
Anna
Thanks Anna. I have gotten orders that also said "By a certain date" and have got the order delivered WAY before that date, so don't despair.
No, I'm actually excited to have something new to try! I'm going to start low and sloooowww and go from there. No despair over here, and quite frankly, even if I have to wind up using 90% VG for the rest of my life, I plan to enjoy the clouds that DON'T cause me medical harm and just wash the windows more, LOL. It would be great to have less VG floating around, but either way, I'm totally good. If it fails, I may try more DW and see what that does.... Etc.
Anna
No despair over here, and quite frankly, even if I have to wind up using 90% VG for the rest of my life, I plan to enjoy the clouds that DON'T cause me medical harm and just wash the windows more, LOL. It would be great to have less VG floating around, but either way, I'm totally good. If it fails, I may try more DW and see what that does.... Etc. Anna
I have those Arizona ironwork and bars all over Every. Single. Door. and Window. No blinds needed. The husband refuses to take them down because it's actually an added value to the house it keeps it cooler in the summers.... I actually have to keep a full-spectrum light on for most of the day if I'm not going out, that's how little light actually gets inside.
I would be more than happy to never wash a window again (it makes no difference in my estimation) but the Husband (oh, the husband) doesn't enjoy it when my entire living room gets super cloudy, and in my estimation that's mostly the VG causing it (well that and chain vaping perhaps). I am not really conducting this experiment for my benefit, but his. I don't care if there's a nice smell floating in the air, but really, the amount of clouds that I emit is atypical for my wattages and coils and etc. So, if I can fix my juice, I will do that.
I guess I could try more just regular PG in addition to DW, I suppose it is possible that I could go slightly higher, but really when I vape the husband's 50/50 mix or even 60/40, it's like inhaling a haystack made of needles, so I have some reluctance about trying more PG. I think I will try this other stuff first and see what it gets me....
Anna
I would be more than happy to never wash a window again (it makes no difference in my estimation) but the Husband (oh, the husband) doesn't enjoy it when my entire living room gets super cloudy, and in my estimation that's mostly the VG causing it (well that and chain vaping perhaps). I am not really conducting this experiment for my benefit, but his. I don't care if there's a nice smell floating in the air, but really, the amount of clouds that I emit is atypical for my wattages and coils and etc. So, if I can fix my juice, I will do that.
I guess I could try more just regular PG in addition to DW, I suppose it is possible that I could go slightly higher, but really when I vape the husband's 50/50 mix or even 60/40, it's like inhaling a haystack made of needles, so I have some reluctance about trying more PG. I think I will try this other stuff first and see what it gets me....
Anna
Vaping shouldnt hurt......
Do what works for you, I am sure DH will come around. If not, hide his vape gear for a while.
Do what works for you, I am sure DH will come around. If not, hide his vape gear for a while.
Nope. I'm not going to vape something that's unvapable just to avoid clouds, but I will do some more experimenting if I can.
He'd probably LOVE it ATM, MikePetro, if I hid his vape equipment, he is in that part of dual use where you both LOVE and HATE cigarettes, LOL. He's experiencing the torture... I love it... He actually took my advice this morning and vaped before that first cigarette, which he moved up a couple hours, then proudly said, "It worked!"
Thinking of how nice ECF was to me when I was new, I carefully did NOT say "Yeah, doofus."
I think once A/C season comes around again, things will probably improve. For whatever reason (and if there is one, I am not sure I care) the cold air circulates far more rapidly than hot air (probably because our house is standing on the surface of the sun or something) so it really wasn't a problem until colder temps hit which is fine ATM because I don't care if it's 58 degrees and the heat hasn't been on all night, I just grab a blanket, my coffee, and crack a door and think of my energy savings. Heh.
I was worried about summer, but then I remembered... When I was using the AC, the air circulated better. I'd still be more than happy if some PEG400 helps, but if it doesn't, eh, it doesn't.
Anna
He'd probably LOVE it ATM, MikePetro, if I hid his vape equipment, he is in that part of dual use where you both LOVE and HATE cigarettes, LOL.
He's experiencing the torture... I love it... He actually took my advice this morning and vaped before that first cigarette, which he moved up a couple hours, then proudly said, "It worked!"Thinking of how nice ECF was to me when I was new, I carefully did NOT say "Yeah, doofus."
I think once A/C season comes around again, things will probably improve. For whatever reason (and if there is one, I am not sure I care) the cold air circulates far more rapidly than hot air (probably because our house is standing on the surface of the sun or something) so it really wasn't a problem until colder temps hit which is fine ATM because I don't care if it's 58 degrees and the heat hasn't been on all night, I just grab a blanket, my coffee, and crack a door and think of my energy savings. Heh.
I was worried about summer, but then I remembered... When I was using the AC, the air circulated better. I'd still be more than happy if some PEG400 helps, but if it doesn't, eh, it doesn't.
Anna
Stols, I'm retired. I chain vape. Since I'm the one that's at home, and chain vaping, I end up cleaning the windows, and mirrors, and glass top tables, and TVs and yada yada every week. I hate to think about it, but probably need to clean the walls and ceiling as well.
Incidentally, I'm convinced cold glass attracts VG. Once summer comes, there's no real buildup of film on the glass.
Incidentally, I'm convinced cold glass attracts VG. Once summer comes, there's no real buildup of film on the glass.
So I was reading up on PEG, it's decomposition/oxidation properties under heat as well as more theory on the oxidation of PG and VG into aldehydes. It seems that at least with PEG the presence of water actually helps prevent degradation and oxidation. Then I remembered Mike's chart (quoted below) and how I had wondered why there was such a large discrepancy between 100%VG and 90%VG/10%DW at the 500F data point. I think that water may potentially act to help prevent oxidation of all 3 of these molecules.
To that end I propose that Mike repeat this test with an additional liquid composition: 45PG/45VG/10DW. The hypothesis is that we should see a similarly low reading at the 500F mark as we do for the 90/10 composition. If this holds true we may have a way to further limit exposure even at higher temps.
EDIT: If time permits, it might also be interesting to see the other end of the spectrum using 100%PG, and 90PG/10DW just to isolate how water inhibits oxidation of pure PG. If my hypotheses holds true I can see myself using something along the lines of 55PG/35VG/10DW. It might be a bit thin and require some tweaking, but we can cross that bridge once we know if the water really helps or not.
To that end I propose that Mike repeat this test with an additional liquid composition: 45PG/45VG/10DW. The hypothesis is that we should see a similarly low reading at the 500F mark as we do for the 90/10 composition. If this holds true we may have a way to further limit exposure even at higher temps.
EDIT: If time permits, it might also be interesting to see the other end of the spectrum using 100%PG, and 90PG/10DW just to isolate how water inhibits oxidation of pure PG. If my hypotheses holds true I can see myself using something along the lines of 55PG/35VG/10DW. It might be a bit thin and require some tweaking, but we can cross that bridge once we know if the water really helps or not.
Last edited:
Just as an added FYI, I came up with this idea reading the following:
http://www.conservationphysics.org/ppubs/pegdeg.pdf
and the first answer to this question:
How does propylene glycol/glycerin form formaldehyde/acetaldehyde when vaporized?
http://www.conservationphysics.org/ppubs/pegdeg.pdf
and the first answer to this question:
How does propylene glycol/glycerin form formaldehyde/acetaldehyde when vaporized?
I wonder where I would be on that chart, running my 80 PG/20 VG solution of Unflavored DIY at the lowest Temp setting on my G2 w/28g Kanthal (93°C) ??
It's the Hohmtech kanthal tc which isn't really temperature-based at all.
Sent from my Thor E using Tapatalk
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
