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New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

Discussion in 'General Vaping Discussion' started by mikepetro, Mar 6, 2017.

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  1. mikepetro

    mikepetro Vape Geek Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Its a Tapatalk issue, some pics show, many dont on ECF. But you can always see them on the PC, weird.
     
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  2. sof101

    sof101 Full Member

    Dec 12, 2017
    to tell u the truth I understood nothing about all that as I'm new in vaping. I use a vaporesso Swag and an istick eleaf 40w (another mini-stick 10w), I use a Nautilus (the old big one 5ml) and GS2. I always set the wattage between 10 to 14 watts. is it ok or should I change somethiing? thanks
     
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  3. mikepetro

    mikepetro Vape Geek Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    I only tested the stock 1.8 ohm coils on the Nautilus. The results of my tests are in the link below.

    On that coil you would likely be running a little hot at 10-14 watts.

    Actual temperatures inside a Nautilus atty | E-Cigarette Forum
     
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  4. mikepetro

    mikepetro Vape Geek Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    @sof101 I noticed you disagreed with the post below. I know you are new. You might want to search @Kurt on this forum. He is a pro vaping pHd who has the scientific methods and resources of a major university. He vapes himself. I am not sure what it was about his research that you disagreed with, but I (and many others on ECF) trust his research to be objective and "good science".

    My own testing revealed similar findings regarding the temperature of that style device:
    Actual temperatures inside of a VV Nova 2.5 on both VV and VW devices. | E-Cigarette Forum

    Actual temperatures inside a Protank Mini on both VV and VW devices. | E-Cigarette Forum



     
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  5. mikepetro

    mikepetro Vape Geek Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    It all about "relative risk"!

    "Mean lifetime risks decline in the sequence: combustible cigarettes >> heat-not-burn >> e-cigarettes (normal power)≥nicotine inhaler."
    Comparing the cancer potencies of emissions from vapourised nicotine products including e-cigarettes with those of tobacco smoke..
    August 2017 Tobacco Control 27(1):tobaccocontrol-2017-053808

    DOI 10.1136/tobaccocontrol-2017-053808
    William E Stephens

    The quest continues among many (in fact the purpose of this thread) to minimize the Lifetime Risk associated with ecigs. While the risk is certainly greater than not inhaling anything, current generation products present far less risk than combustible tobacco. Older generation products are questionable.
     
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  6. mikepetro

    mikepetro Vape Geek Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    E-cigarettes are one of the most controversial
    issues in public health today. There is little doubt
    that they are less harmful than smoking, but there
    is disagreement on the level of risk reduction.
    However, there is agreement that they are not
    absolutely harmless. Epidemiological evidence of
    long-term health effects is unavailable for now,
    and it will take years to generate final conclusions
    about the clinical effects of switching from
    tobacco to e-cigarette use. However, it is reason-
    able to communicate to smokers the relative risks
    of smoking and e-cigarette use based on current
    knowledge, keeping in mind that the ideal path-
    way is to quit without using any alternative prod-
    ucts.

    (15) Electronic cigarettes: an aid in smoking cessation, or a new health hazard?. Available from: Electronic cigarettes: an aid in smoking cessation, or a new health hazard? (PDF Download Available) [accessed Feb 09 2018].
     

    Attached Files:

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  7. untar

    untar Ultra Member

    Feb 7, 2018
    Germany
    I don't expect any useful long term evidence on health matters. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you'd need a big number of never-smokers to vape for years to get the data you need. Those are pretty rare.
    There was a study conducted over 3.5 years but the number of participants was very low (they didn't find any significant difference between the vaping group and the control regarding lung health).

    Most vapers are ex-smokers, often they were heavy smokers, it's hard to extrapolate health data from those since lung damage or other ailments could still be from smoking. Lab experiments on cells are neat but they don't tell the whole story of what really happens in the body.
     
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  8. PugLady

    PugLady Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 9, 2012
    Arnold Maryland
    I can only speak for my own story but I quit smoking 7 yrs ago with an 808 from v4l lol (still love their peppermint juice). I smoked for 22 years, 1 to 1.5 packs a day. I would get bronchitis every May n October every year. When I decided to quit for family reasons I had a physical 3 days before I quit. My lungs were even x-rayed that day since lung cancer runs in my family. My lungs showed thickened tissue sections throughout. My Dr. said "good thing you're quitting" I told him I was going to start vaping. He said he didn't know much about the long term effects of vaping but he wanted to see me every 6 months for a chest xray. In the next 2 xrays he saw less thickened tissue and no thickened tissue left at all by the 3rd xray about 20 months after I quit and started vaping.
    Now I can't speak to the cloud chasing style of vaping and if it has different effects on the lungs than the simple 808 I used for years but I think its also a positive trade off with sub-O vapers using lower amts of nicotine than we did back then too. Either way long term tests have to be done on multiple test groups to get true results. I haven't researched the testing that's been done yet but there's my 2 cents lol..
    Happy Vaping everyone!

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
     
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  9. awsum140

    awsum140 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    I think there is a preponderance of anecdotal evidence that vaping is significantly less harmful than smoking despite what the main stream media reports and the FDA seems hellbent on denying. Undoubtedly, some bad stuff can be produced IF wrong techniques are used, but IF we use our heads and available information, it can be safer yet.

    I smoked for 50+ years, anything from one to three packs a day, and was running out of wind. I don't run out of wind very easily now, after almost five years of vaping, and my doctor hears no rattles in my lugs anymore. I like to consider myself a recovering tobacco user and hope the recovery continues as I continue vaping and enjoying it.
     
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  10. untar

    untar Ultra Member

    Feb 7, 2018
    Germany
    There's probably millions of stories like that, the problem is they all come from ex-smokers. To evaluate the effects of vaping on health you need non-smoker guinea pigs. It would be unethical to recruit non-smokers to do that and there's next to none never-smoker regular vapers to collect sufficient data.
    Then there's the problem of the astronomical number of variables. There's not just one device/wick/wire, so even if we had 10-year data about the ego-AIO then someone would point to a pico+siren system and say "yeah but what about this"... it will never end.

    The often referenced missing long term studies will probably never come, they're not well defined. They can't cover all use cases or user habits, which will exactly be what opponents of vaping will demand.
    Heck, to my knowledge not even one single vaping robot was built that can recognize a dry hit, if there was only serious science going on that'd be the least I'd expect after 10 friggin years.
    In my mind this is a tactic to scare smokers away from vaping and enable strict regulations, but maybe I'm too tinfoil-hatted ;)
     
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  11. mikepetro

    mikepetro Vape Geek Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    I will be long gone and dead before the question is ever clearly resolved.
     
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  12. Eskie

    Eskie ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 6, 2016
    NY
    You can choose one cohort of smokers who change to vaping versus a control of those who continue to smoke. Pick whatever time frame, 5 or 10 years and compare. If short term studies bear up there should be fewer serious cardiovascular and pulmonary episodes amongst the vaping cohort. Cancer rates will likely not see much of a change without even longer follow up.
     
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  13. untar

    untar Ultra Member

    Feb 7, 2018
    Germany
    That's coming from the "smokers" end of things and comparing vaping to smoking but studies that are often demanded are long term studies on the harm done solely by ecigs. You'd never get that by only analysing ex-smokers, the waters are already too muddy there.

    Well, in my opinion you'd never get that anyways and the demand is ludicrous. For such a demand to even be justified there should be clear evidence of any harm done in the first place.
    There's no long term studies demanded for the harm done by bananas because there's no reason for one.
     
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  14. Eskie

    Eskie ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 6, 2016
    NY
    Longterm harm done to nonsmokers would only matter if someone demonstrated there are enough such users out there to justify the effort. I really doubt, regardless of how popular vaping becomes that nonsmokers who vape as much as exsmokers would ever reach a large enough population to justify that expense. Will there be some? Sure. But likely only as a small percentage of total vapers who vape daily.
     
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  15. Burnie

    Burnie The Bug Man Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jul 1, 2009
    Sunny Florida
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  16. untar

    untar Ultra Member

    Feb 7, 2018
    Germany
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  17. awsum140

    awsum140 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    I may as well call the undertaker now. I eat two bananas a day AND vape!
     
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  18. Burnie

    Burnie The Bug Man Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jul 1, 2009
    Sunny Florida
    :lol:
     
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  19. Semiretired

    Semiretired Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Sep 24, 2011
    Middle Georgia
    Regular banana consumption attracts mosquito's, which carry dengue and many other diseases - you are doomed... :eek::rolleyes::D
     
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  20. awsum140

    awsum140 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Whoa is me, whoa is me! Oh, the humanities.....hey, wait a minute, I'll just vape more and chase the skeeters with the vapor!
     
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