New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

[Fiestylillady]

Sorry about my dry hands. Washed them Before taking the tank apart. But that's how my cotton looks after trying temp mod. I purchased those coils last night to give tc another try. I'm using the clapton coil. 32ohms coils. I burned the cotton on first attempt with tc with them. Do I have to toss the coils? I'm going to try and dry fire see how they look and rewick.

 

[stols001]

Shouldn't have to change coils unless something comes loose as you wick it. It's also recommended that even SS coils, you are better off cleaning them thoroughly and then gently pulsing to check for hot spots. Not sure if with an exotic build that is going to be more difficult, but I've heard dry burning SS isn't good for it at least if you go at it with major gusto etc.

Anna

 

[KenD]

The Alien has very poor tc. That's at least part of the problems you're experiencing.

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[mikepetro]

Sorry about my dry hands. Washed them Before taking the tank apart. But that's how my cotton looks after trying temp mod. I purchased those coils last night to give tc another try. I'm using the clapton coil. 32ohms coils. I burned the cotton on first attempt with tc with them. Do I have to toss the coils? I'm going to try and dry fire see how they look and rewick.

I agree with @KenD , those coils would push any TC mod.

Plus, look as I might, I could not actually find what alloy (ie 316, 430, etc) of SS that Mad Rabbit uses, it wasnt anywhere on their website that I could see. Your TCR might not actually match their wire.
https://madrabbitllc.com/shop/stainless-steel-coil-packs-pre-made/

I would start with just a plain single wrap coil of a known alloy to test out your TC, get it working correctly like that, then experiment with more exotic builds. If you start with a working build, it gives you confidence in the Mod, then you can experiment.

 

[Fiestylillady]

I agree with @KenD , those coils would push any TC mod.

Plus, look as I might, I could not actually find what alloy (ie 316, 430, etc) of SS that Mad Rabbit uses, it wasnt anywhere on their website that I could see. Your TCR might not actually match their wire.
Stainless Steel Coil Wheel Packs (Pre-made) - Mad Rabbit LLC

I would start with just a plain single wrap coil of a known alloy to test out your TC, get it working correctly like that, then experiment with more exotic builds. If you start with a working build, it gives you confidence in the Mod, then you can experiment.

Thank you all for the help. I feel like a silly rabbit because I first purchased a spool of ss and returned it for the premade thinking it would be easier. I didn't even notice out was missing the type of ss type. I tried calling the shop I purchased it in but I don't think they understand my question about the wire. What websites do you purchase your ss wire? I tried the majority of my local shops and they stint have ss only nichrome and I avoid it because of the nickel.

 

[CMD-Ky]

Thank you all for the help. I feel like a silly rabbit because I first purchased a spool of ss and returned it for the premade thinking it would be easier. I didn't even notice out was missing the type of ss type. I tried calling the shop I purchased it in but I don't think they understand my question about the wire. What websites do you purchase your ss wire? I tried the majority of my local shops and they stint have ss only nichrome and I avoid it because of the nickel.

TEMCO

Non-Resistance Wire - Wire, Cable & Accessories - Products

 

[Dubminer]

I second Temco,all i use.

 

[mikepetro]

TEMCO

Non-Resistance Wire - Wire, Cable & Accessories - Products

^^^^^^^

 

[Mazinny]

@Mazinny should be getting his Provari back today.

As a thank you to both of these guys for their generous loan I included a DNA75 with their package. I got them at a crackhead price and bought far too many in a moment of cheapskate shineyitus. They are a decent mod though and I couldnt pass up the deal. Then I realized I would never use them, as in why the hell did I buy them in the first place? So I PIFd them to these guys who I hope can get some use out of them.

Wow, what an unexpected surprise, and beyond generous ! I don't now what to say other than Thank You . And thank you for all the work you put in.

I made a number of adjustments based on your test results, but now it's time to finally give TC a real try. I tried it with my iStick Pico and it was too fiddly, but like 440BB, time to learn escribe !

 

[Fredman1]

time to learn escribe !

Yep, my next challenge on the horizon. Head things don't come as easy to me as hand things do. Got some 430 st st that i'm exited to use in TC....

 

[mikepetro]

I am going to stick my neck out, and without a thermocouple, say that this is probably too hot???

 

[Semiretired]

I am going to stick my neck out, and without a thermocouple, say that this is probably too hot???

View attachment 717989

Is that one of those new BTU mods... (LOL)...

 

[awsum140]

Looks more like LPG to me.

 

[inspects]

Use temp control and dont go above 450Fish if you want to minimize exposure.

OK, they published this data publicly now about the spike of formaldehyde and Acetaldehyde (both carcinogens) spiking way up past safe levels starting around 470F-480F.

Temperature Control is IMPORTANT folks!

Start about 6 minutes in:


Turns out VG is worse than PG with regards to formaldehyde:



A Device-Independent Evaluation of Carbonyl Emissions from Heated Electronic Cigarette Solvents


Even tootle puffers at 10W are reaching temps above 470F

This is PG, carcinogen level starts rising around 480F

This is VG, carcinogens start rising around 410F

This is our common 50/50 pg/vg mix, carcinogens start rising at around 470F

The rise in carcinogens above 470F exceeds what is available in regular cigarettes.

Below 470 the levels are negligible.

ETA:
***********************************************
This thread stirred a lot of controversy. In an attempt to actually prove, based on "sound" technique, what was going on inside our attys, a series of tests were performed. Here is a list of links you might find interesting:

Formaldehyde Levels in a real atty under real conditions.
Best Practices to avoid high temps on VV/VW mods.
VV & VW Mod Temperature Variables
Capillary action of silica vs rayon
Actual temperatures inside a Vivi Nova on both VV and VW devices.
Actual temperature inside VW Tootle Puffer rig.
Juice Boiling Point and Vaping Temperatures
Real Life temp measurements inside a 2016 era atty

Sounds like Evolv is trying to sell more chips.

I'm a thermographer, using a FLIR T-460 camera on an open wick-juiced coil I had a hard time finding any temps over 438 degrees. 438 degrees occurred after the juice had vaporized considerably, and I doubt anyone vaping normally would hit the atty that long in the first place. Therefore, my faith in Evolv's TC is very questionable, with regard to actual temperature.

 

[mikepetro]

Deleted - wrong forum

 

[mikepetro]

Sounds like Evolv is trying to sell more chips.

I'm a thermographer, using a FLIR T-460 camera on an open wick-juiced coil I had a hard time finding any temps over 438 degrees. 438 degrees occurred after the juice had vaporized considerably, and I doubt anyone vaping normally would hit the atty that long in the first place. Therefore, my faith in Evolv's TC is very questionable, with regard to actual temperature.

I proved it out myself, look at the various tests in my Blog (link in my sig).
I tested many attys that rose above 438 while actually vaping them.

My thermocouples told a different story. I measured the temp of the coil while actually vaping, therefor taking ALL of the variables into account, and ensuring no dry hits.

I experimented with the FLIR type of camera, but it doesnt accurately simulate temperatures while vaping. For one thing the coil chamber is open, and there is no airflow. Nonetheless I measured high temps with my camera on an actual build of an R91. Well saturated wick. I measured higher temps in this open manner than I did while using a thermocouple, thats because in a closed atty the airflow of a puff is a major variable and it cools the coil.

5 second fire

4 second fire

 

[PugLady]

If this info is indeed true, I haven't read into any of it yet but it would be just 1 more reason I am NOT a cloud chaser. In my crown 3 I use a 75/25 vg/pg juice in a .25 coil at only 30 W. Yup 30. I have tge airflow all but closed, just not even about 1/8th of an inch open. Those who don't know the lower the airflow you allow the lower your wattage must be, this will save your coils and help them last longer as well. The flavor is amazing there..

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[AzPlumber]

If this info is indeed true, I haven't read into any of it yet but it would be just 1 more reason I am NOT a cloud chaser. In my crown 3 I use a 75/25 vg/pg juice in a .25 coil at only 30 W. Yup 30. I have tge airflow all but closed, just not even about 1/8th of an inch open. Those who don't know the lower the airflow you allow the lower your wattage must be, this will save your coils and help them last longer as well. The flavor is amazing there..

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Airflow is needed to temper the heat of the coil. In fact one of the worst offenders of high temp aldehyde producer is a low wattage, low airflow clearomizer.

 

[PugLady]

Airflow is needed to temper the heat of the coil. In fact one of the worst offenders of high temp aldehyde producer is a low wattage, low airflow clearomizer.

I let enough air through that it doesn't heat up or anything, works great for me. It's open and plenty of air coming through just not enough to diminish my flavor, ad I stay between 27 and 30 w.
Don't know why my pics always come up sideways lol...

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[PugLady]

Wonder why my pics never come up... hmmmm

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