New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

[zoiDman]

I just asked myself why would someone intentionally use unrealistic vaping conditions to obtain results that would conclude that vaping in these unrealistic conditions, using some real life elements, like the eJuice and mods and atomizers, to finally conclude that vaping produces 10 times the carbonyls as cigarettes do? ...

We all know Reasons why "Researchers" would do this.

Heck, I think Slantz authored a How To Book entitled "How to Skew Research Studies for Dummies".

But the Question is, do the Author(s) of this Study Promote or Condon this? Or are they Pointing Out that Results have been Obtained by using such a Techniques in previous "Studies"?

 

[MoeKeto]

We all know Reasons why "Researchers" would do this.

Heck, I think Slantz authored a How To Book entitled "How to Skew Research Studies for Dummies".

But the Question is, do the Author(s) of this Study Promote or Condon this? Or are they Pointing Out that Results have been Obtained by using such a Techniques in previous "Studies"?

From my reading and academic experience this is simply a literature review to show previous findings, and it’s always easier when they are preaching to the choir to point out that the literature review supports their findings. It’s the safe thing to do, especially when they are funded the way they are funded. This is the due-diligence aspect of the study.


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[zoiDman]

From my reading and academic experience this is simply a literature review to show previous findings, and it’s always easier when they are preaching to the choir to point out that the literature review supports their findings. It’s the safe thing to do, especially when they are funded the way they are funded. This is the due-diligence aspect of the study.


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Is that what there're doing in this Study? Using "unrealistic use conditions" from previous "Studies" to support their Findings?

Funny, some Might say they are trying to do the Opposite. And are trying to Cast a Specific Type of e-Cigarette in a Good Light.

Especially seeing who the Authors are. And what Financial Affiliations the have.

 

[sofarsogood]

If cigarette taxes disappeared there would be a massive Great Recession in medical research. There would be a LOT of layoffs. Funding would become scarce. The whole industry would suffer. If vaping was not a funding threat everything would be different. Conflicts of interests here are existential.

I have a hopeful hunch that in the next year or two we'll see statistics that kids smoking has crashed through the floor, meaning that the mighty Juul will be what crushes tobacco. If the kids don't smoke it's over.

 

[newyork13]

They also have the experience of being dismissed solely because "they lied in the past and can never again be trusted with anything". Wouldn't be surprised if that was the only thing the WHO has to say regarding this.
Seeing how many of the things the FDA says atm seem adopted from WHO outlines (like eg their low nic cigarette wet dream) I don't think much will come from this. But you can bet next week there'll be a study that shows squirrels can drown in eliquid.

Name me one big organization, public or private, government or business or non-profit, which hasn't ever lied to us. I think it's always wise to be open and objective, knowing that we all have needs, motives and desires which may not necessarily translate to the benefit of others. Take the good when it's presented, but be sensitive to the motives when the bad is offered.

 

[MoeKeto]

Is that what there're doing in this Study? Using "unrealistic use conditions" from previous "Studies" to support their Findings?

Funny, some Might say they are trying to do the Opposite. And are trying to Cast a Specific Type of e-Cigarette in a Good Light.

Especially seeing who the Authors are. And what Financial Affiliations the have.

I would love to hear your take on it in detail.


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[MoeKeto]

If cigarette taxes disappeared there would be a massive Great Recession in medical research. There would be a LOT of layoffs. Funding would become scarce. The whole industry would suffer. If vaping was not a funding threat everything would be different. Conflicts of interests here are existential.

I have a hopeful hunch that in the next year or two we'll see statistics that kids smoking has crashed through the floor, meaning that the mighty Juul will be what crushes tobacco. If the kids don't smoke it's over.

It’s the sad truth, and I am a skeptic in general so I thought it was just my own thinking, but after reading about similar involvements like the pressure on GM to shut down the E Car project and so on. In fact, one funny thing happened which is when I changed my eating habits and actually got healthier doing pretty much the opposite of what doctors were telling me to eat to lose weight and improve health. In my research I found a plethora of peer reviewed articles that supported my own findings, but then again, who wants a healthy population? Even in a country like mine, Canada, where healthcare is government based, no one wants doctors and big pharmaceuticals to be out of business, least of all the medical schools that teach them how to take care of us.
It’s like you said, a cycle that they all want to keep going.


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[sofarsogood]

It’s the sad truth, and I am a skeptic in general so I thought it was just my own thinking, but after reading about similar involvements like the pressure on GM to shut down the E Car project and so on. In fact, one funny thing happened which is when I changed my eating habits and actually got healthier doing pretty much the opposite of what doctors were telling me to eat to lose weight and improve health. In my research I found a plethora of peer reviewed articles that supported my own findings, but then again, who wants a healthy population? Even in a country like mine, Canada, where healthcare is government based, no one wants doctors and big pharmaceuticals to be out of business, least of all the medical schools that teach them how to take care of us.
It’s like you said, a cycle that they all want to keep going.


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May be we are on a similar journey. It occured to me a few months ago that stopping smoking, good as it is, makes me less unhealthy but not more healthy. The next frontier has too be diet and exercise. What I find most convincing (keto diet and strength training) is far from what conventional medicine and public health supports. In the mean time we read that half of American adults are pre Type 2 diabetes or already have it. If most of those people develop diabetes or one of the related conditions it will be an economic disaster and a national security threat. Instead of focusing attention on that our guardians of public health are freaking out about ecigs? This is a joke, an evil joke.

(BTW, eating keto and exercising has me at my highschool weight, muscling up, and feeling as good as I can recall.)

 

[DPLongo22]

Risking redundancy -

 

[CMD-Ky]

Oh, my do you think so? I think of the dead horse.

Risking redundancy -

View attachment 733101

 

[DaveP]

Between the tobacco companies wanting to keep the public buying cigarettes and the ANTZ crowd wanting to abolish anything that looks like smoke, we have our work cut out for us. Luckily, enough doctors are realizing that vaping can kick tobacco to the curb and that's where our future lies. Doctors are finally realizing that people are going to continue doing things they like. Sugar substitutes and ecigs can solve lots of medical issues quite well.

ANTZ will still keep on keeping on, though.

 

[Rossum]

ANTZ will still keep on keeping on, though.

 

[mikepetro]

Between the tobacco companies wanting to keep the public buying cigarettes and the ANTZ crowd wanting to abolish anything that looks like smoke, we have our work cut out for us. Luckily, enough doctors are realizing that vaping can kick tobacco to the curb and that's where our future lies. Doctors are finally realizing that people are going to continue doing things they like. Sugar substitutes and ecigs can solve lots of medical issues quite well.

ANTZ will still keep on keeping on, though.

My doctor has a very realistic view IMHO. He said:

"There is not enough research to really know what harm vaping "may" cause, but it is very telling that we never see anyone coming into our offices with complaints or ailments related to vaping. One thing I will say is that you are better off with ecigs then you were when you were smoking those damn cigars."

 

[mikepetro]

Looks like some folks in Academia are starting to "get it".

Whether to push or pull? Nicotine reduction and non-combusted alternatives - Two strategies for reducing smoking and improving public health. Available from: Whether to push or pull? Nicotine... (PDF Download Available) [accessed Apr 06 2018].

"many smokers appear to harbor misperceptions about the harm of e-cigarettes relative to cigarettes, and these misperceptions are growing. In 2017, an estimated 22% of smokers in the UK reported that they believed e-cigarettes were as or more harmful than cigarettes, up from 9% in 2013 (Action on Smoking and Health, 2017). These beliefs were strongest among smokers who have never tried e-cigarettes, which may mean that these beliefs are a barrier to even trying e-cigarettes"

 

[440BB]

In 2017, an estimated 22% of smokers in the UK reported that they believed e-cigarettes were as or more harmful than cigarettes, up from 9% in 2013 (Action on Smoking and Health, 2017).

A fact resulting from a swarm of lies. Those whose aim has been to undermine vaping in the public's eye have succeeded to a great degree.

It will take years of genuine information to get that perception cleared up and a significant percentage of the public will never look at the facts, rigidly holding on to what they've allowed themselves to be convinced is true.

At least the facts are starting to pop up among the muck. There is much more work to be done.

 

[Eskie]

I think a good part of the problem is vaping is certainly risk reduction for smokers who are able to transition. But how do you do that in a responsible manner while still educating nonsmokers that vaping remains to be established as risk free for them? Because let's face it, I doubt many around here would encourage a nonsmoker to start vaping.

I'm not suggesting an adult can't put whatever they want into their body, but full disclosure before assuming a given risk is appropriate. And right now that risk, albeit probably low, is not zero.

 

[awsum140]

The thing that bother me about that report is that it cited statistics in England showing an increase of people that think vaping is worse than smoking. Keep in mind the British College of Physicians report that said vaping is, probably, at least 95% SAFER than smoking. That illustrates the power of the MSM being able to manipulate the brains full of mush that believe every word they spout as absolute "truth".

 

[440BB]

I don't think the media is the problem, it's those who have been feeding them biased studies to get headlines.

 

[stols001]

I think it's both actually. The media does have choices about how and why it reports something. In fact, I think it manufactures some scandals.

I will say, I don't expect a ton of POSITIVE media reports, the media also often "does" what it is told. I kind of agree that it may become possible that our doctors become the last line of defense if they continue reading journal articles. It's a shame, but the anti's have done their homework and prep work pretty well. Etc.

Anna

 

[Khanninnarh]

E-Cigarettes Found To Have 10 times More Cancer Causing Ingredients Than Regular Cigarettes

This seems pretty misleading too.


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