New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

[Eskie]

Yeah, I think this is a pretty classic fair use case. But the actual link in the post would be good. It's also intellectually honest for anyone who wants to see how context around a quote fits, avoiding cherry picking (sorry, I get to be sticker on stuff like this in scientific literature).

Edit: oops, to late as usual, what Robin did.

 

[Lessifer]

WE studied it, Les. Tibs and yours truly and so many others.

WE vaped, and dissected, and analyzed, and sent samples to laboratories for testing. For years. Until fillerless clearos appeared on the scene and we thought we were safe.

I was being a bit facetious. The point being that you don't actually know if there were any aldehydes released under those conditions. What were the results of the testing you had done?(sorry, not going to go read the thread, you can summarize for me)

 

[Zutankhamun]

Added the link (to keep you safe )

hope it's the right link.....

Thank you.

Can you just remove everything but the link?
I'll just add a covering statement.

 

[Robino1]

Thank you.

Can you just remove everything but the link?
I'll just add a covering statement.

can do

 

[Katya]

@zoiDman , @Lessifer and others who have a new or renewed interest in TC vaping and are technically oriented this thread is very useful and informative.
TC beyond Ni200: Nickel Purity, Dicodes; Ti, SS, Resistherm NiFe30; Coefficient of Resistance

A word of caution, be prepared for brain pain.

I tried to follow this thread--when it first started... Soooo above my pay grade. I guess I'll have to go back now...

But before I do, can someone help me here--with the basics.

So let's say that I want to give TC a try and use a ss wire.

I have a Wismec Presa tc75W in my hand. The specs say that:

"Our default setting is SS316. TCR value is 120 [what ????].

And you can try to use TCR mode and set the TCR value according to your coil’s material.
Material: TCR value range
Nickel: 600-700
NiFe: 300-400
Titanium: 300-400
SS(303,304,316,317): 80-200"

http://www.tasteyourjuice.com/wordpress/archives/10076

Now, per Phil, if your device is tuned for a specific SS alloy, like ss316 for most TC mods, if you use a different alloy, your temperature reading will not be accurate unless you switch to TCR mode. But I see peeps using all kinds of ss alloys all the time, most often ss316L and and others, in regular ss mode (not TCR).

And then I read your post:

SS430 is the most accurate due to its high tcr value. It runs fine on my 350j with the manual tcr adjustment set to .00142.

So, do I need to use the specific alloy my device is tuned for? What happens if I don't? What if my device doesn't have a TCR mode?

 

[Katya]

I was being a bit facetious. The point being that you don't actually know if there were any aldehydes released under those conditions. What were the results of the testing you had done?(sorry, not going to go read the thread, you can summarize for me)

Nope. Not that I know of.

 

[Robino1]

I tried to follow this thread--when it first started... Soooo above my pay grade. I guess I'll have to go back now...

But before I do, can someone help me here--with the basics.

So let's say that I want to give TC a try and use a ss wire.

I have a Wismec Presa tc75W in my hand. The specs say that:

"Our default setting is SS316. TCR value is 120 [what ????].

And you can try to use TCR mode and set the TCR value according to your coil’s material.
Material: TCR value range
Nickel: 600-700
NiFe: 300-400
Titanium: 300-400
SS(303,304,316,317): 80-200"

http://www.tasteyourjuice.com/wordpress/archives/10076

Now, per Phil, if your device is tuned for a specific SS alloy, like ss316 for most TC mods, if you use a different alloy, your temperature reading will not be accurate unless you switch to TCR mode. But I see peeps using all kinds of ss alloys all the time, most often ss316L and and others, in regular ss mode (not TCR).

And then I read your post:



So, do I need to use the specific alloy my device is tuned for? What happens if I don't? What if my device doesn't have a TCR mode?

I am soooooooooo lost

 

[Katya]

I am soooooooooo lost

Take a number, dear!

 

[cigatron]

I tried to follow this thread--when it first started... Soooo above my pay grade. I guess I'll have to go back now...

But before I do, can someone help me here--with the basics.

So let's say that I want to give TC a try and use a ss wire.

I have a Wismec Presa tc75W in my hand. The specs say that:

"Our default setting is SS316. TCR value is 120 [what ????].

And you can try to use TCR mode and set the TCR value according to your coil’s material.
Material: TCR value range
Nickel: 600-700
NiFe: 300-400
Titanium: 300-400
SS(303,304,316,317): 80-200"

http://www.tasteyourjuice.com/wordpress/archives/10076

Now, per Phil, if your device is tuned for a specific SS alloy, like ss316 for most TC mods, if you use a different alloy, your temperature reading will not be accurate unless you switch to TCR mode. But I see peeps using all kinds of ss alloys all the time, most often ss316L and and others, in regular ss mode (not TCR).

And then I read your post:



So, do I need to use the specific alloy my device is tuned for? What happens if I don't? What if my device doesn't have a TCR mode?

I'll PM you.

 

[Ca Ike]

Exactly!!!

And if you choke the airflow and the wicking as in a top coil ce4, it only exacerbates the issue.

Tapatyped

Way behind on this thread but this right here is the crux of the problem with early tanks. The weak point in the design was not the wire or the air flow, but the wick. Even with 100% pg you would get dry hits simply because silica is a very poor wick material. Anyone that had to rely on those back then will tell you anything above 5.5w/3.5v (your average ego batt) was a horrid vape. Wicking with cotton vastly improved the vape on all levels.

The thinking back then was adding more wick improved performance and they were right in a sense because adding more wick via flavor wicks on top of the coil or larger id with more strands increased juice flow. Using a bottom coil further improved wicking but silica is still a poor wick material regardless.

The biggest improvement has always been in the wick.

 

[Katya]

What were the results of the testing you had done?(sorry, not going to go read the thread, you can summarize for me)

In all seriousness, we were then mostly concerned about inhaling SMOKE from burning polyester.

 

[Katya]

I'll PM you.

I appreciate it very much, Cig!

But I have a feeling that others might want to know also. Think community service.

 

[tiburonfirst]

In all seriousness, we were then mostly concerned about inhaling SMOKE from burning polyester.

and lessifer managed to get us sidetracked! the only reason i brought this up in here and posted one of our gory pics - OUR TASTE BUDS FAILED US!

 

[Lessifer]

In all seriousness, we were then mostly concerned about inhaling SMOKE from burning polyester.

I should have been more clear. Those were two separate statements. I assumed you don't know if there were aldehydes released under those conditions. I was also curious as to any results you got from having the material analyzed. Was the filler actually being burned or was it a concentration of organic compounds and/or sugars, or...?

 

[Lessifer]

and lessifer managed to get us sidetracked! the only reason i brought this up in here and posted one of our gory pics - OUR TASTE BUDS FAILED US!

not sidetracked my point is that you don't know if you were just unable to detect the aldehydes, because you don't know if they were actually emitted, regardless of what the filler material looks like.

ETA: Remember, this was after 40ml vaped with TC at 420F, well below the temp that any aldehydes should have formed New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

 

[Katya]

I assumed you don't know if there were aldehydes released under those conditions.

Nope. I don't. But I'm pretty sure that with 33(or higher) gauge wires and practically no airflow to speak of... In addition, most cartos were pretty inefficient in producing vapor, so we had to take long drags to get something in our lungs. You get the picture.

I was also curious as to any results you got from having the material analyzed. Was the filler actually being burned or was it a concentration of organic compounds and/or sugars, or...?

I remember we had some of the filler material analyzed--most was polyester. But we only tested clean filler. But we did wash and analyze the burnt stuffing and we saw both--burnt filler and/or /caramelized/carbonized/scorched remnants of ejuice flavorings, sweeteners, colorings etc. But none of our analysis were done scientifically in a lab. It was all done in our kitchens.

Analyzing the contents of vapor itself was not a big concern. We were BURNING stuff, Les, and inhaling SMOKE. Sure it had aldehydes--all kinds of aldehydes.

 

[Lessifer]

Nope. I don't. But I'm pretty sure that with 33(or higher) gauge wires and practically no airflow to speak of... In addition, most cartos were pretty inefficient in producing vapor, so we had to take long drags to get something in our lungs. You get the picture.



I remember we had some of the filler material analyzed--most was polyester. But we only tested clean filler. But we did wash and analyze the burnt stuffing and we saw both--burnt filler and/or /caramelized/carbonized/scorched remnants of ejuice flavorings, sweeteners, colorings etc. But none of our analysis were done scientifically in a lab. It was all done in our kitchens.

Analyzing the contents of vapor itself was not a big concern. We were BURNING stuff, Les, and inhaling SMOKE. Sure it had aldehydes--all kinds of aldehydes.

That seems to be one of the biggest takeaways, at least for me, from this thread: Thinner wire is harder to keep in optimal operating ranges.

 

[englishmick]

If your Premise is correct, then a Reliable TC would achieve just that.

So I guess the Question gets back to are these Compounds only formed in a Dry Hit condition? And if they are Not, what is the Amounts being produced and under what Conditions?

When people ask what power level they should use with a setup they are always advised to start low, and keep raising the power until it starts to taste bad, then drop it back a bit. That bad taste when the power is a little too high is nothing like a dry hit but it does taste noticeably bad. Never really considered what it was. Could be that's the start of formaldehyde being formed. If you had asked me a week ago I would have said it was just slightly burned juice.

 

[DC2]

Just found this thread and I'm only through page 6 so far.

But as someone who has been dripping on a 510 atomizer at 9.5 watts for MANY years...
This thread is bumming me out.


I've had my share of dry hits and semi-dry hits.
Luckily I only vape about 1ml per day at this point.

But yeah, this sucks.

 

[tiburonfirst]

regardless of what the filler material looks like

aldehydes aside, the filler material was definitely burned, the juice was exposed to the burned material - we SHOULD have tasted it but we did not! and ever since then i don't trust my taste buds!