New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

[Imfallen_Angel]

Remember in that SS chamber testing setup and the Subtank variable wattage thing, there were no "dry hits" involved to get those results. That dry hit stuff applied to the older CE4 testing. Not to say a dry hit won't have bad stuff in it, but you do not have to get a dry hit to have measurable (although low) aldehyde levels produced.

Yeah but anything heated enough can because pretty bad.

Heck, heat water enough and you end up with dihydrogen monoxyde which kills thousands of people each year.

 

[Eskie]

Yeah but anything heated enough can because pretty bad.

Heck, heat water enough and you end up with dihydrogen monoxyde which kills thousands of people each year.

Especially if you inhale a gallon or two of that crap. They need to put better warning labels on them, Not for Inhalation. Keep Away From Children and Pets (boy will the dog be ...... off )

 

[Imfallen_Angel]

Especially if you inhale a gallon or two of that crap. They need to put better warning labels on them, Not for Inhalation. Keep Away From Children and Pets (boy will the dog be ...... off )

Well hell, inhaling a couple of gallons is one thing but.. they put that stuff in the food!.. the FOOD! We wash toilet bowls with that stuff...

 

[Eskie]

Well hell, inhaling a couple of gallons is one thing but.. they put that stuff in the food!.. the FOOD!

Thanks, now all I can imagine is Soylent Green. Now I've gotta hunt that down on Amazon or Netflix.

 

[Lessifer]

Remember in that SS chamber testing setup and the Subtank variable wattage thing, there were no "dry hits" involved to get those results. That dry hit stuff applied to the older CE4 testing. Not to say a dry hit won't have bad stuff in it, but you do not have to get a dry hit to have measurable (although low) aldehyde levels produced.

Right, that's what I meant by what exactly is happening in a "dry puff" situation? What is causing the formation of the aldehydes? My thoughts are, the lack of liquid is causing a sharp rise in temperature, far above normal conditions, due to the loss of cooling effect. Also just an out of my *** theory, but I don't think that the liquid, under normal conditions, gets heated above it's boiling point, which is why the compounds are not detected outside of dry hit conditions, seemingly regardless of wattage. Of course, we don't actually know any of that, so, still waiting for someone to test it all out

 

[KenD]

It's true that VW devices or even VV devices don't have a temperature regulation on them, but why the blanket statement that they are no longer SAFE to use anymore?

I don't think anyone has actually said that. At least that's not what I've gotten from this thread. Many of us have said that if you want to make sure you're staying within temp you'll pretty much need to check by using tc. And many have also said, and I agree, that you should be able to compare that tc experience with vw vaping (possibly mech as well) to be reasonably sure that you're staying within temp.

Sent from my K6000 Pro using Tapatalk

 

[cigatron]

After 40ml of NET juice and I hated to tear it down just for pics cuz the flavor was still great. Ran in TC @ 420°f with NiFe52 alloy coils.

Rinsed and pulled rayon wicks

 

[Bonskibon]

I don't think anyone has actually said that. At least that's not what I've gotten from this thread. Many of us have said that if you want to make sure you're staying within temp you'll pretty much need to check by using tc. And many have also said, and I agree, that you should be able to compare that tc experience with vw vaping (possibly mech as well) to be reasonably sure that you're staying within temp.

Sent from my K6000 Pro using Tapatalk

Well maybe I'm misunderstanding stuff which is most likely the case. My mind is pretty much mush right now over this whole thing.

 

[zoiDman]

After 40ml of NET juice and I hated to tear it down just for pics cuz the flavor was still great. Ran in TC @ 420°f with NiFe52 alloy coils.

View attachment 639901
Rinsed and pulled rayon wicks
View attachment 639903

No Snark.

But is this supposed to be Good? Or is this supposed to be Bad?

 

[KenD]

How about some ammo for you kanthal/nichrome users to use against noob tc vapers who think they are bang on whatever temp their display shows....oh yeah, I'm going to feed that stray cat!!!

First, I'm not an evolv rep and do not believe I've seen any here. I know most of the peeps on ecf who push evolve products but like myself I believe they just want folks to have the best control over their vape and deepen their understanding of temp control....so here we go.

Screw on a factory tc coil, or build your own for that matter, select your tc wire mode, set your cold/base res at room temp, set your mod for 450°f and you're good to go right? Yeah, not so much.
The tcr of the wire has variance between wire manufacturers and lot numbers. The wire coming out of China seems to have the highest % of variance in tcr. Especially all the 316L that it so commonly used today.
Tcr plays a huge role in a tc mod's ability to calculate coil temp and variances can easily put you out of calibration by 50°f. So maybe you're vaping at 450°f and maybe you're not!
If you are going to go tc you need a mod that has manual tcr adjustments, as many do today, so that you can calibrate the mod to that particular spool of wire.
Testing the tcr value for a particular spool of tc wire is a fairly simple endeavor and assures that the displayed temp is as close to the actual coil temp as possible. Some call this a "420°f dry cotton browning test" and it can only be performed on rbas and mods with adjustable tcr.
I am not an advocate of trusting factory coils for tc vaping because you cannot legitimately test the tcr value of the wire being used.
Is the dry cotton browning test perfect? No, because it requires human interpretation by visually observing the point at which the dry cotton begins to turn brown from coil heat.
Is this the most accurate way to tc vape? I believe it is.
Is tc vaping always safer than non-tc? I believe it has the potential to be the safest but not with factory tc coils and/or mods without manual tcr adjustments.

My apologies to all you hard core tc-only vapers out there but to be fair both sides of the tc story need to be told.

Well said! And this comes from a tc vapor

Sent from my K6000 Pro using Tapatalk

 

[tiburonfirst]

Okay, is there data that cartos in that state were emitting aldehydes?

nope
all we knew was 'this can't be good' and yes, definitely burned! there was no bad taste! that's why it worries me that some people here think they can rely on their taste buds to keep them in the safe zone!

 

[cigatron]

No Snark.

But is this supposed to be Good? Or is this supposed to be Bad?

It's a NET thing. Extracted tobaccos are dirtier than many sweeteners out there. Gunkasaurus Rex.
I posted it to freak people out like Tibs did.
I don't know what it means exactly. Bottom line, my tc mod was still maintaining 420°f and the flavor was outstanding. I don't think anything was burning.

 

[tiburonfirst]

I posted it to freak people out like Tibs did.

...........

 

[Steamix]

Panic now or panic later ?

Safe - hmphh. We all pretty much agreed on 'safer than...', not safe.
Unsafe - hmmm. Thing that really matters is the temperature in the contact zone between wicking material and energy source ( aka coil ). TC so far relies mostly on temperature-induced changes of the ohmage in the coil.
A bit indirect, but that's pretty much all we've got. Atty's too small to stick a full fledged thermal imager into it.

Keep da head cool and da wick wet. Nothing really new there. Decomposing products begin to form in VG well below boiling point. Large surface area at low temp transfers as much thermal energy as a small surface area at high temp.

Guess we might be seeing an attempt to revive ultrasonic approaches.
Been tried - nothing came of it. Yet.
Ultrasonic humidifiers are nothing new. For vaporizing water.
Cold-vaporizing a highly viscous e-liquid could be done, I guess.
Doubtful whether it still fits a shirtpocket and doesn't need an extension cord to the nearest wall socket...

We'll see.

 

[cigatron]

...........

Noooooo, not the frying pan!!

 

[KenD]

The reasons stated above are exactly why I won't use mods which rely on just a TCR setting. Just look at a TFR range for most any wire type and you can see what an inaccurate method that is for measuring electrical resistivity.

On my TFR graphs I also like to have a reference point every 50F within the range I like to vape at for good measure. It can only help it be more accurate.

Example: this is about what my csv looks like for 430SS

However, if you Check the 350-500℉ range the rise is quite stable and a tcr value would be plenty accurate. Not saying that you're wrong in wanting to use tfr, only that tcr is accurate enough for most of us (particularly if using pretty much the same temperature all the time and having done a dry burn test).

Sent from my K6000 Pro using Tapatalk

 

[Bonskibon]

Is anyone willing to test my kanthal build with SS on their TC mod? Pretty intimated with TC which is why I don't use it.

Thought I would just throw that out there.

 

[Eskie]

...........

Oh, you know things are going downhill when the frying pan comes out.

 

[KenD]

Trying to find who started the term. Coming up blank at the moment.



Normal build is 2.4 (or thereabouts) coil with kanthal. 3.4-3.6 volts. ProVari doesn't do watts. Someone else will have to figure out what the translation from volts to watts

Kanthal a1? Coil diameter, wire gauge, wrap number? The coil mass and heat flux will need to be matched in order for the comparison to be as accurate as possible. Of course, they way you vape is important as well. How long of a draw, how many draws in a row, how long of a pause between draws, how hard of a draw.

Sent from my K6000 Pro using Tapatalk

 

[Robino1]

just a thought: Silica wicks would be the way to go? They do not burn.

Might have to get out the little bit I have from years ago....