Not to mention, every last single one of us HAS cancer cells floating around our bodies, dormant.
New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers
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we do know the simplest part of the equation....what we don't know, is the theoretical side, that would answer the question of heat our liquids reach during atomizing. My best guess would be no, they don't reach temps beyond their boiling point in most cases. Inhaling anything that was truly at the temps listed in this study would be beyond unpleasant, and harmful. Put your hand in 400 degree water....what happens? Ever had a steam burn, from say a radiator? That is a closed system, where it is very easy for the liquid to reach beyond its boiling point.......which also creates high pressure, something else we DON'T see in our gear. At minimum, we would be blistering our mouths and throats if our vapor was truly reaching such temps.
interesting (off topic, but already brought up) thing about coffee......while it has been found to have carcinogens, it ALSO has antioxidants, which fight cancer....so coffee is self cleaning? 
#3 would be what corroborates #1 and #2. I still don't quite see how you're going to measure the temperature of the thin layer of liquid in contact with the coil as it is vaporized. Not that you shouldn't try
Dont think I can, but I think I get get close enough to tell me if there might be anything to the Wang study.#3 would be what corroborates #1 and #2. I still don't quite see how you're going to measure the temperature of the thin layer of liquid in contact with the coil as it is vaporized. Not that you shouldn't try
If it is as USMCotaku suggests, and I tend to think he is right, then it will be all about the boiling point of your juice being below the Wang study breakpoints.
You can Ingest Cyanide. You probably have. Ever had an Almond?
But the Dosage of Cyanide needs to be Smaller than say Vitamin C.
cyanide is also found in apples
I think it is Just in the seeds. But I could be wrong.
I just learned that the Tapioca plant also contains cyanide, in lethal dose if consumed raw. Apparently the cooking process renders it safe.
The dose of Potassium Cyanide that would be fatal in 50% of those ingesting it is ~5 mg/kg. For an average 70 kg person that's 350 mg. Not a lot but not an "OMG I just swallowed 1 mg of cyanide!". https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp8-c2.pdf
Right now I would be satisfied with 2 pieces of information. #1, what is the measurable temperature of a coil when set by TC, does it match? #2 what is the measurable aldehyde release at different temperatures as controlled by TC and (subpart) how does it compare to the same system with power/wattage mode?
Mike appears able to answer #1, does the coil really measure at the temp we set out boards at under real world circumstances while in contact with a wick.
#2 requires a little chem lab setup with a collection system similar to that used for the chamber thing and then analyzed by someone who knows how to run the HPLC (it isn't hard, either, just not a typical next to the Cuisinart item in the kitchen the average home has on hand). If #2 shows no/low aldehyde levels at normal TC temperatures that are somewhat close to that chamber study and we're done.
The wire/liquid boundary data would be interesting. The data on how high our liquid is heated to for aerosolization would be nice to know. However, while interesting from a theoretical thermodynamic perspective, it doesn't really matter. Either TC really does represent the temperature state of coil in vape gear or not, and are aldehydes produced in some measurable fashion that follows increases in temperature as controlled by a board is all we need to know. If a "certified" temp setup produces little aldehydes at 400-450, but lots at 500-550F that's all that really matters.
Bonus round. If a board temp limited to 400F at 30W does not make aldehyde during a 10 second fire, what happens with the same coil run in wattage for 10 seconds at 30W? Easy to do in the same setup as you can simply use the same SS build. Of course for the sake of covering all OCD like musings here, that same wattage setting could be applied to a Kanthal coil to see if it's different than SS.
Right now I would be satisfied with 2 pieces of information. #1, what is the measurable temperature of a coil when set by TC, does it match? #2 what is the measurable aldehyde release at different temperatures as controlled by TC and (subpart) how does it compare to the same system with power/wattage mode?
Mike appears able to answer #1, does the coil really measure at the temp we set out boards at under real world circumstances while in contact with a wick.
#2 requires a little chem lab setup with a collection system similar to that used for the chamber thing and then analyzed by someone who knows how to run the HPLC (it isn't hard, either, just not a typical next to the Cuisinart item in the kitchen the average home has on hand). If #2 shows no/low aldehyde levels at normal TC temperatures that are somewhat close to that chamber study and we're done.
The wire/liquid boundary data would be interesting. The data on how high our liquid is heated to for aerosolization would be nice to know. However, while interesting from a theoretical thermodynamic perspective, it doesn't really matter. Either TC really does represent the temperature state of coil in vape gear or not, and are aldehydes produced in some measurable fashion that follows increases in temperature as controlled by a board is all we need to know. If a "certified" temp setup produces little aldehydes at 400-450, but lots at 500-550F that's all that really matters.
Bonus round. If a board temp limited to 400F at 30W does not make aldehyde during a 10 second fire, what happens with the same coil run in wattage for 10 seconds at 30W? Easy to do in the same setup as you can simply use the same SS build. Of course for the sake of covering all OCD like musings here, that same wattage setting could be applied to a Kanthal coil to see if it's different than SS.
Perhaps the Cyanide undergoes a Thermal Breakdown?
BTW - Since Cyanide somehow Popped into this thread. I wonder How Many caught this reference? Or where it comes from?
LOL
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For the record--again--Evolv did not conduct or sponsor or was otherwise associated with the study in question. They only cited it in their presentation. FWIW. The study was funded internally through California Department of Public Health, and at least two of the authors, Principal Investigator Ping Wang and Kazukiyo Kumagai, are affiliated with Indoor Air Quality Program, Environmental Health Laboratory, California Department of Public Health. Published online,
I'm not suggesting that every study ordered and funded by an ANTZ organization is to be dismissed; just that it needs to be scrutinized critically.
I also remember distinctly Brandon explaining to us (in the interview with Phil, for instance) that the main purpose of TC was to prevent dry hits and burnt wicks, which were then considered the main danger of vaping. When did their narrative change to "safe temperatures"? Was it based solely on the CDPH study? Anyone knows?
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I've done some fairly good temp readings on TC mods in the past using a temp probe in coils. I have found that many mods are off by around 10-20 degrees celcius, while the better mods tend to be +/- 5 degrees C.
Ah, for clarification, PLoS One is peer reviewed even though it is published as an online open source journal.
Then that's pretty good. Was that on a wicked coil that was wet, or just bare wire? We know the TCR of a metal can be a reliable way to measure temp, but I'm not aware of someone demonstrating that when the wire is actually being used for something other than temp measurement. Does it hold up as valid as liquid evaporates off and "cools" that same wire?
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