New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

[beckdg]

So a Smaller Diameter Wire has to Run at a Hotter Temperature than a Larger Diameter Wire.

Regardless of if the Smaller Diameter Wire is Run at a Lower Voltage, with Better Wicking, and with More Airflow.

Sounds like that One Size Fits All belief thinking I mentioned Earlier.

Jesus...

You're doing this on purpose.

Tapatyped

 

[zoiDman]

Dont know when clams start producing carcinogens, this data only told us about pg and vg.

I can turn up my mod to 500 and it doesnt taste acrid burnt. So I suspect the acrid/burnt thing may only be after you reach an extreme.

I wonder at what PPM the Average person can start to Detect the Things that were Evaluated in these Studies?

 

[zoiDman]

Jesus...

You're doing this on purpose.

Tapatyped

Don't look at me.

I'm Not the One who said the Small Wires are the Problem.

 

[NU_FTW]

So a Smaller Diameter Wire has to Run at a Hotter Temperature than a Larger Diameter Wire.

Regardless of if the Smaller Diameter Wire is Run at a Lower Voltage, with Better Wicking, and with More Airflow.

Sounds like that One Size Fits All belief thinking I mentioned Earlier.

you could look at as energy density rather than temp... On thin wire 1watt change makes a huge difference in in energy density or temp. In thicker wire 1watt will go largely unnoticed

substitute tenths of a second for watts and same holds true

 

[Lessifer]

You can only lead them to the water Mike.


Again, watch the video in the second post where Kurt presented this data chart and talks about it. As he said, CE4's are unsafe at ANY level.

This would seem to contradict multiple previous studies that only showed spikes from CE4's above a certain power level. I agree that a CE4 is much more likely to spike beyond safe levels, due to the small chamber, poor wicking of a top coil design, and the extremely thin wire. What that doesn't mean is that every draw from a CE4 is full of formaldehyde.

Yes, but when I am making a linguini with clam sauce I am not worried about hitting 470F.



I agree that one can achieve a repeatable and consistent vape without TC. How do you dial it in if you dont have a reference temperature? Dial in by taste? I dont trust my tastebuds enough to know the difference between 450 and 470.

What temp is acrolein produced at?

Because maybe you should be.

You'll produce a lot more with a pan full than you would with a drop of juice.





I trust mine enough to distinguish acrid and burnt.

As Kurt said, and I agree... you'll taste it.

Tapatyped

What he said.

Again, I'm not arguing that TC isn't useful. I'm arguing against the idea that TC is absolutely necessary for a "safe" vape.

For a "community" that despises how the government is trying to control what we can or cannot do, we sure do like to impose limits on ourselves at the drop of a hat/study.

 

[beckdg]

you could look at as energy density rather than temp... On thin wire 1watt change makes a huge difference in in energy density or temp. In thicker wire 1watt will go largely unnoticed

Don't waste your time.

He has a vendetta against me.

PM'd me the other day about it.

And he's trying to force his will on me.

Logic won't help.

Tapatyped

 

[beckdg]

Don't look at me.

I'm Not the One who said the Small Wires are the Problem.

Nope...

You're the one saying I said that.

Nice little game, z.

Tapatyped

 

[zoiDman]

you could look at as energy density rather than temp... On thin wire 1watt change makes a huge difference in in energy density or temp. In thicker wire 1watt will go largely unnoticed

substitute tenths of a second for watts and same holds true

Absolutely.

Lots of Factors Effect the Physical Temperature that a Coil Wire reaches.

 

[beckdg]

Absolutely.

Lots of Factors Effect the Physical Temperature that a Coil Wire reaches.

And effect a thin wire exponentially greater.

Tapatyped

 

[englishmick]

Exactly!!!

And if you choke the airflow and the wicking as in a top coil ce4, it only exacerbates the issue.

Tapatyped

OK, so lets see what sounds good.

- Keep the airflow high.

- Less VG.

- Less juice per day.

- Cut back on the long hits.

- Cut back on fast consecutive hits.

- Power as low as you can to still get a satisfying vape.

- Keep your tank well filled up.

- Good wicking discipline to keep the wick good and wet.

- Try and figure out what temp you are vaping at. Harder if you use Kanthal.

Don't know how much danger there really is or how much % good any of the above would do. But it's a start. Don't think it can do any harm.

 

[zoiDman]

Don't waste your time.

He has a vendetta against me.

PM'd me the other day about it.

And he's trying to force his will on me.

Logic won't help.

Tapatyped

Give it a Rest beckdg. You're still Bent because you got Called out for making ad hominem attacks in another thread.

Why don't we stay on the Topic?

 

[beckdg]

OK, so lets see what sounds good.

- Keep the airflow high.

- Less VG.

- Less juice per day.

- Cut back on the long hits.

- Cut back on fast consecutive hits.

- Power as low as you can to still get a satisfying vape.

- Keep your tank well filled up.

- Good wicking discipline to keep the wick good and wet.

- Try and figure out what temp you are vaping at. Harder if you use Kanthal.

Don't know how much danger there really is or how much % good any of the above would do. But it's a start. Don't think it can do any harm.

If that works for you, it can't hurt.

Me?

I'm not changing anything until I want to.

Tapatyped

 

[beckdg]

Give it a Rest beckdg. You're still Bent because you got Called out for making ad hominem attacks in another thread.

Why don't we stay on the Topic?

If I recall, it wasn't I who was bent.

And evidence here of you trying to spin me in circles shows you still are.

So yes, let's do.

If you can.

Tapatyped

 

[Riplea]

And effect a thin wire exponentially greater.

Tapatyped

I am trying to follow along here...what gauge wire would you consider thin? In SS and Kanthal? I want to get into rebuilding at some point so not being a smart a... just curious.

 

[NU_FTW]

Absolutely.

Lots of Factors Effect the Physical Temperature that a Coil Wire reaches.

yes but the tolerance for error on thinner wire is drastically smaller than thicker wire. Be it time on the fire button watts used or even wicking. You will feel the heat difference in the coil with more mass/surface area where tiny micro coils you could be at 500 and not feel the heat and possibly not taste the difference

 

[Lessifer]

Dont know when clams start producing carcinogens, this data only told us about pg and vg.

I can turn up my Mod to 500 and it doesnt taste acrid burnt. So I suspect the acrid/burnt thing may only be after you reach an extreme.

In a tc mod, that 500 is the calculated temperature of the wire, right? When you set it to 500 are you actually hitting 500 or are the other limits, i.e. power available, keeping you below that. If you are hitting 500 at the coil, do we know that the liquid itself is reaching 500, or does it start to aerosolize before reaching that temperature? This would be why it would have been great to get measurements from the vapor produced by a coil in tc, and not a steel tube.

 

[NU_FTW]

I am trying to follow along here...what gauge wire would you consider thin? In SS and Kanthal? I want to get into rebuilding at some point so not being a smart a... just curious.

thin 28 and up 28 is borderline lots I'm referring to are 32+. Thick I would call 26 and under with 28 being wiggle room

 

[beckdg]

I am trying to follow along here...what gauge wire would you consider thin? In SS and Kanthal? I want to get into rebuilding at some point so not being a smart a... just curious.

To me that really doesn't matter.

Vape how you enjoy.

But if you choose say 34 gauge wire with standard coils, it's probably best not to go past say 6 watts or so.

Get into large claptons and such and you might be able apply 200 plus watts if your air flow is up to snuff.

Just do your best to use a moderate setting for the vape (coil gauge) you enjoy.

Tapatyped

 

[tj99959]

I'm sitting here laughing about all the NO-NOs I'm doing

36ga nichrome wire.
I guess you would call an A7 RDA a top coil.
It certainly is a small diameter chamber.
Mechanical mod.

WOW ....... I'M GONNA DIE ! ! !

 

[zoiDman]

yes but the tolerance for error on thinner wire is drastically smaller than thicker wire. Be it time on the fire button watts used or even wicking. You will feel the heat difference in the coil with more mass/surface area where tiny micro coils you could be at 500 and not feel the heat and possibly not taste the difference

So it I guess a Good Question is can a Thin Wire build be used that Doesn't Exceed say 4701F if TC is Not Used?

And by Thin Wire, should we use 30ga (or smaller) so that there is a Gauge to talk about?