New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

[Lessifer]

Agreed.

I also think we (collectively) have to start thinking about e-Cigarette use more as a Wide Category.

Just like being Top Roped on a Hand over Hand jumble is Different from Leading a 5-10+ Open Vert, e-Cigarette use comes in Every Flavor of the Rainbow.

Can't state any Studies or provide any Links. But there has to be a Different Degree of Potential Harm in vaping 1.5ml/Day of Unflavored @ 300F than there is at vaping 20ml/Day of Heavily Flavored/Sweetened e-liquid @ 480F+.

I agree that vaping isn't 100% safe, nothing is, but I'm not sure I'd compare it to rock climbing with great equipment.

For me, it's analogous to drinking municipal tap water. It's relatively safe. It's always good to know about the sources to make sure there are no major issues with contaminants, and it may be a good idea to put a filter on your water main. Now, TC might be like taking the extra precaution of also running your drinking water through filter pitcher or something like that.

Now, if you take that water and add sugary drink mixes to it, it's not as good for you, but it's still water. Of course you could always slip and drown in your bathtub, or break a glass and cut your hand(exploding battery), but that's not an inherent issue with the water.

Actually, depending on where you live, vaping might be safer than the tap water.

 

[sofarsogood]

I don't expect to see expensive studies trying to figure out if cloud chasing is safe. I don't expect battery companies to pulse their battires far beyond rated amps so they can advise mech mod users how much abuse the batteries will tolerate before they fail. If you're determined to be a vaping dare devil you're probably on your own.

 

[zoiDman]

I agree that vaping isn't 100% safe, nothing is, but I'm not sure I'd compare it to rock climbing with great equipment.

For me, it's analogous to drinking municipal tap water. It's relatively safe. It's always good to know about the sources to make sure there are no major issues with contaminants, and it may be a good idea to put a filter on your water main. Now, TC might be like taking the extra precaution of also running your drinking water through filter pitcher or something like that.

Now, if you take that water and add sugary drink mixes to it, it's not as good for you, but it's still water. Of course you could always slip and drown in your bathtub, or break a glass and cut your hand(exploding battery), but that's not an inherent issue with the water.

Actually, depending on where you live, vaping might be safer than the tap water.

Whatever Analogy you want to use, it All kinda boils down to the same Overarching concept. Harm Reduction vs. Harm Elimination.

I used Rock Climbing because the User defines the Level of Protection they are comfortable with.

That, and I made some posts yesterday about Camping Trips I had done. And got thinking about how I would Rather be going on a Trip right now. Verses stuck attached to the Ball n' Chain of having to Work to pay the Bills.

 

[Lessifer]

Whatever Analogy you want to use, it All kinda boils down to the same Overarching concept. Harm Reduction vs. Harm Elimination.

I used Rock Climbing because the User defines the Level of Protection they are comfortable with.

That, and I made some posts yesterday about Camping Trips I had done. And got thinking about how I would Rather be going on a Trip right now. Verses stuck attached to the Ball n' Chain of having to Work to pay the Bills.

eh, I just don't like the climbing analogy because there is an inherent level of potential harm that I believe is higher than that of vaping. Though, again, a quick google search shows that there's an inherent potential level of harm with tap water that is higher than any known harms with vaping.

 

[Rossum]

I used Rock Climbing because the User defines the Level of Protection they are comfortable with.

And doing this is the equivalent of smoking:

 

[Mowgli]

And doing this is the equivalent of smoking:

Is that Alex Honnold?
I've dropped from 70W to 45W-50W for the last 2 weeks
It's still warmer at the end of a long draw than 420° @ 50J TC.

Here's 6 minutes of total badazz for you climbers.

 

[zoiDman]

eh, I just don't like the climbing analogy because there is an inherent level of potential harm that I believe is higher than that of vaping. Though, again, a quick google search shows that there's an inherent potential level of harm with tap water that is higher than any known harms with vaping.

Things like Inherent Dangers are all Very Subjective. Especially seeing that something like Rock Climbing is like e-Cigarette Use. There Isn't One Specific that can be used to Describe all manors of Danger for All People in all Situations.

I could Top Rope you with an Arrestor up something that would be Extremely Dangerous to a Lead Climb. But your level of Danger would probably be Less than Riding a Bicycle.

 

[zoiDman]

And doing this is the equivalent of smoking:

I like that Analogy.

 

[Mowgli]

What is TC?
Is soggy bacon safer than crispy bacon?

 

[sofarsogood]

With rock climbing, flying, motorcycle riding you have to control gravity. If you hit the ground hard enough you're gone. Gravity is not an issue with vaping.

 

[zoiDman]

With rock climbing, flying, motorcycle riding you have to control gravity. If you hit the ground hard enough you're gone. Gravity is not an issue with vaping.

Trust me. You can Never Control gravity. LOL

And it is a Huge Myth that Falling is the Inherent Danger of Climbing. It Isn't.

Anyone who has Climbed knows that the Fall isn't what can Kill You. It's the Sudden Change of Acceleration at the End of the Fall that is the B^tch.

 

[sofarsogood]

Trust me. You can Never Control gravity. LOL

And it is a Huge Myth that Falling is the Inherent Danger of Climbing. It Isn't.

Anyone who has Climbed knows that the Fall isn't what can Kill You. It's the Sudden Change of Acceleration at the End of the Fall that is the B^tch.

I'm the engraver where I work and install field and safety tags on the machines we buid. One of the tags is a square rotated 90 degrees with the acronym 'CG', control gravity. That's for situations where turning off air pressure could allow something heavy to fall. I want a Tshirt with that on it for riding the motorcycle.

The lesson I've taken from this thread so far is i can reduce temp from 400 F to 300-340 F, still get the experience I want and reduce liquid and power consumption too.

 

[zoiDman]

...

The lesson I've taken from this thread so far is i can reduce temp from 400 F to 300-340 F, still get the experience I want and reduce liquid and power consumption too.

That's what I'm Talking bout!



This thread has gotten Too Big. And has Too Many unsubstantiated competing Scientific Conjectures in it.

If there was Only 2 Takeaways a person could have from it, I would say One is that Coil Temp Matters.

And the Other would be is my Vape still Enjoyable/Satisfying if I Lower my Coil Temp from what I currently use?

 

[USMCotaku]

You would have to get the RBA kit and build the coil yourself in a TC wire such as SS, as Smok does not offer any factory TC coils for their tanks.

They made TC useable SS coils for the tfv4....you sure they don't have a ss coil for the later tanks?

 

[Eskie]

They made TC useable SS coils for the tfv4....you sure they don't have a ss coil for the later tanks?

Not that I've found anywhere. Either stores or even on the Smok website. You would think they would, but so far not.

 

[Mowgli]

... And the Other would be is my Vape still Enjoyable/Satisfying if I Lower my Coil Temp from what I currently use?

I mentioned that I dropped to 40W-50W from the 70W I've been using for about a year.
It's relatively satisfying surprisingly enough.
I missed the heat at first and the vapor isn't as thick but it's still enjoyable.
My main issue is that I cut my (PG based) flavoring in half because of PG intolerance.
I can deal with up to ~10% PG so I got VG nic and use 10% flavor & a few % saline.
Higher heat compensates for the lower % flavor but too much heat kills the sweetness.
After about 2 weeks 70W doesn't taste right anymore. 50W is my new normal.
I'm glad this thread got me motivated to experiment.

 

[Rossum]

Trust me. You can Never Control gravity. LOL

“Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done.” – Robert A. Heinlein

 

[Lessifer]

My takeaway from this thread is that the temperature that pg and vg reaches matters, and that coil temp probably has an effect on that, though extent of that effect is unknown.

 

[DPLongo22]

My takeaway from this thread is that a horse is a horse (of course, of course), no matter how hard you beat it. Even if beaten dead, the horse is still a horse (of course).

Until (of course!), it's glue.

 

[awsum140]

I think this thread is reaching the glue stage.