New York Post and a deadly vape pen

[stols001]

Just wanted to say.... I was in no way implying an electrical engineer would know and understand ohm's law and the ins and outs of vaping.

I was implying that the general public would read that and go, "Oh my he's an electrical engineer, he should know how to NOT explode an e-cigarette." So it's just an added layer of "OMG."

My husband is a mechanical engineer and I asked him if he knew ohm's law. He replied, "I know what it IS, I would probably have to look it up thought to discuss it coherently."

I was so proud of the admission of some ignorance. Because frankly, as a new vaper he was just as trembly and trepidation-ful as the rest of us. Well, most of us. Well those that have sense.

It's so hard though. When you see vapes all over in gas stations and whatnot, it becomes hard to understand the power of a lithium Ion battery or the VAST differences between one type of vape or another. It gets really hard.

I blame no one really, not enough information, but vaping needs to get itself together, if only because every mistake makes the vise squeeze tighter. It is COMPLETELY an TOTALLY unfair, but it also... IS what it is.

Anna

 

[Old Greybeard]

Battery packs in tools these days use lithium cells in various series and series/parallel configurations. Those are designed with fail-safe devices that prevent overloading and also offer short protection through a thermal or electronic disconnect. The difference is that engineers determine the design and the pack has to be disassembled and unsoldered to get to the individual cells.

My point? Those packs are designed for safety as long as the user can't easily get inside and replace/modify the cell arrangement, voiding the warranty. Mechs are up to the user to choose and install a cell that is rated for the current draw of the vape. Some mech users have no idea how much current their .1 ohm coil draws at the voltage they vape, much less how to choose the right cell with an amperage rating that provides an overload cushion.

I'm sure that many vendors are shipping a spec sheet with recommendations on battery safety and cell choice, but who reads that stuff? Everyone wants to get vaping and enjoy their new mech purchase. Of course, few new vapers know about cell ratings and current loading for the coil they choose.

I don't know how the industry can stop new vapers from choosing hardware and batteries unwisely. Vape shops and forums are usually the best source for providing advice, but it's obvious that new vapers don't always make contact with the right resources.

Excellent point, @DaveP. As I said, it is question of managed risk. The deeper, more contentious question is how much do we want government (and the ambulance chasers) to control freedom in society? Where do we draw the line between personal responsibility, corporate responsibility, and a media determined to demonise vapers?

Vaping is still a relatively young technology/business sector, and while there is excellent progress being made on product development, as a community we need to keep the pressure up on manufacturers, resellers and the media. We also have to accept that 18650's, in the wrong hands, are potentially lethal, like a lot of other technology and consumer products. Thankfully, the majority of us do. The only remaining 3 options that can be engaged to address the minority are education, design or legislation. You can be assured the "Do nothing" option is not an option, as some one mentioned, the deaths from cigarette fires are many times the deaths from vaping. The only reason they get away with this is political lobbying, we don't have anywhere near the same resource as big tobacco.

From a UK perspective, I'm truly amazed as to how much freedom you have in the US. For example, it is has been mandatory for a motorcyclist to have to wear a helmet in the UK for years, there are some states even now where that is not the case. So I'm not overly worried of the big picture. What does concern me is the chorus of media disapproval, often poorly informed, will stoke demand for change, and we will not have sufficient tools in our arsenal to refute the moral panic. When America sneezes, the UK catches a cold ...

 

[Baditude]

When America sneezes, the UK catches a cold ...

And this is valid metaphor which I have said before and was roundly criticized by European ECF members. Whatever the US FDA ends up doing, the UK and the rest of Europe often follows suit. Don't become too comfortable on the other side of the pond.

 

[AXIOM_1]

Whatever the US FDA ends up doing, the UK and the rest of Europe often follows suit.

If I jump off a high cliff, I wonder if they will follow ?

 

[Baditude]

If I jump off a high cliff, I wonder if they will follow ?

Not likely, because you are not the FDA.

 

[AttyPops]

Not likely, because you are not the FDA.

Jeez. Another assumption. I heard just the opposite...Just look at the avatar!

How do you think they monitor us?

 

[charlie1465]

When America sneezes, the UK catches a cold ...

Ahem...this only applies to economic effects. As far as legislation goes there are plenty of thing that the EU refutes from the US. They won't buy their beef for example because of the state laws on growth hormone use.

But any way this is the old ''oh god it's going to be bad'' thing again

 

[Baditude]

Here's a new one for me.

Man hospitalized after an Apple Airpod exploded in his ear.

Warning: This was fake news.

 

[Katya]

We also have to accept that 18650's, in the wrong hands, are potentially lethal, like a lot of other technology and consumer products.

I do accept that, but... I've been using battery powered devices my whole life. And I read instructions. However, if I put the wrong battery in my flashlight, the flashlight will simply not work, but it won't explode. Period. If I put the correct battery the wrong way, the flashlight will not work--it won't kill me. Food processors come with very sharp blades, but if I don't secure the processor's bowl, blade and top correctly, the processor won't start. And so on.

Something needs to be done about those mechs, some safety feature added, or we'll be seeing more injuries and deaths. Just my

 

[RayofLight62]

Not nice to hear of such disgraceful event.
Condolences to the family.

I'm against the use of mechs and can't understand the rationale of vapers using such devices.
They were once the only way to achieve more than 15 watts; nowadays they have no reason to be, like an hand-crank car starter.
But they exist and keep killing people.

The only way to defend against defective batteries is with the use of technology. No technology, no defence, no matter how well you know the laws of physics.

 

[bombastinator]

The agency reported that e-cigarettes present a unique hazard because of the presence of a lithium-ion battery in a device used so close to the face.

Umm....

 

[Old Greybeard]

Ahem...this only applies to economic effects. As far as legislation goes there are plenty of thing that the EU refutes from the US. They won't buy their beef for example because of the state laws on growth hormone use.

But any way this is the old ''oh god it's going to be bad'' thing again

We are an island, in the process of Brexit. It is unclear, after this (if it actually happens) what the main cultural, political and legislative drivers will be. Will the UK face West or East? Or will we be sidelined globally as a nationalist pariah?

Anyone who has followed the progress of the EU over the years will appreciate that, from a purely commercial perspective, the primary benefit of being a member is protectionism. So it is not surprising that the EU will not accept US beef. We had the most dramatic headlines about "Clorinated chicken" at the start of Brexit, forgetting that most fruit and veg already is already washed in a chlorine bath. The level of hysteria, muddled thinking, and distortions, as always, is what people remember, rather facts and evidence. Or to put it another way, a lie is half way round the world before truth has put its boots on.

In the political and legal arena, precedent and perception are generally accepted as an acceptable gateway to change. Europe and the UK seem to currently be taking a more liberal approach to vaping than what is happening in the USA and places like Singapore, Brazil etc. The differences couldn't be more stark, The UK welcomes vaping from a health perspective while the EU currently curses it with minor inconveniences like TPD. The US and Canada OTOH resort to bans, and to quote AVA: "The vaping industry is not only banned from introducing new products, but also facing near-extinction in August of 2022 because of extensive and enormously expensive regulatory requirements." [See: AVA Testifies Against Increased Tariffs on Vaping Products - American Vaping Association]. And don't forget the upcoming 25% import duty on China -> US.

So yes, the EU and the UK are insulated to a degree culturally, commercially and legally. This is not set in stone, however. The recent sustained UK media coverage on the horrors of teenage vaping, for instance, was primarily driven by the moral panic that originated in the US.

If I owned a vaping business in the US I'd be concerned. UK business is more focussed on the implications of Brexit than what is happening over the pond. Is the sky falling? No. But in the current febrile political climate, its anyone's guess where we will end up .

 

[B2L]

The main thing that can be learned from this is that people should have to pass a test for a licence to buy, own and operate a mech mod.

Yes, because that works so well in preventing vehicular deaths.

What ever happened to personal responsibility?

This is definitely tragic, but tragedies happen by the thousands each and every day. Life is a terminal condition.

 

[Katya]

What ever happened to personal responsibility?

Nothing happened to it. People make mistakes. People get distracted. People have bad days. Have you never made a simple careless mistake? Ever?

Dumbest mistakes you've made in vaping (beginners to advanced)

 

[bombastinator]

Yes, because that works so well in preventing vehicular deaths.

What ever happened to personal responsibility?

This is definitely tragic, but tragedies happen by the thousands each and every day. Life is a terminal condition.

Actually it worked unbelievably well. Look at the numbers.

Personal responsibility? That thing the 1% always crow about when it’s to their advantage but seem so adept at actually avoiding themselves? It’s still there.

Do I think vaping as a whole should be punished because some dude, using a particular type of semi antique device which many agree should no longer be made did something asinine and managed to make himself a Darwin Award contender? No.

Everyone is stupid some of the time though. Humans aren’t nearly as aware as they think they are, and there is a sucker born every minute as is said. The ones who THINK they are totally aware all the time are the most dangerous of the lot.

Do I think even a complete ban on non vented mechs would stop China from making them and selling them to Americans on the internet? No. Chinese Corperations are every bit as concerned with protecting human lives over profit as American corporations, which is to say not at all. That’s how capitalism works.

 

[Old Greybeard]

Not nice to hear of such disgraceful event.
Condolences to the family.

I'm against the use of mechs and can't understand the rationale of vapers using such devices.
They were once the only way to achieve more than 15 watts; nowadays they have no reason to be, like an hand-crank car starter.
But they exist and keep killing people.

The only way to defend against defective batteries is with the use of technology. No technology, no defence, no matter how well you know the laws of physics.

From a pragmatic standpoint, I couldn't agree more. I personally, wouldn't buy a mech mod unless I knew the provenance, and even then, because I know the risks involved, I wouldn't feel comfortable using it. That would take a lot of the pleasure away I have from vaping on a relatively safe, protected, regulated device. But I am not a vaping purist, and we are both from the UK .

Like the audiophile or classic car enthusiast there will always be those that hanker for the antique and the different. Some people might actually get a buzz from the risk. And the US prides itself on it's fierce independence. I could see banning unregulated/unfused devices working for some, but not all, of the mech community.

What I'd like to see is an improvement in battery safety, and a ban on mods that do not have sufficient venting. You might get burned or scarred for life, but rarely killed. This, coupled with education (Use at your own risk) etc. This could be achieved by adding additional pre-stress areas in both the battery, and the mod. There is no point in just doing this on the battery, as the escaping gas will have nowhere to go.

A good demonstration of this is electrolytic capacitors exploding. These a common place in PC power supplies etc. Here is a mix of safe and unsafe capacitors.

 

[stols001]

I thought it was more, England does, Australia follows (Mah God those convicts do love their queen, and I AM one, and like I even reluctantly afore her, and most certainly parliament.) Then, the US rebels.

I don't think the UK is gonna jump on the US bandwagon even SLIGHTLY.

Because the US is often the "world police" well, the UK and Aus follow, reluctantly, with far fewer troops and planes and whatnot.

I will also say that the US has been the WORLD's FUNDING source for a long long time and I for one am interested in what will HAPPEN if the US really DOES pull out of more and more things. The UN, Paris Accord, I mean many European countries were not EVEN paying their fair share.

World war II is long over, I personally think that America should be done being the world's police, for free at least. Personally. And, no disrespect to the military and we should have one but I do get a bit tired of sending soldiers off to die, for oil. Especially since become mostly financially independent of foreign oil the price has dropped. I am no fan of frakking and it's not a great practice but I have long felt that (barring space travel) the world's end won't come from war, but more likely lack of resources and pollution. I don't expect much change, and I did my part by having ONE kid spread across two dudes each without other children. I am like, "I did my part for society do you hear me Catholics? If I have more kids I will foster them when I am old, to have fun.."

We need to invest in our own country, our own children, and fight the people who say we have no right to educate them as we see fit, to arm them at a reasonable age, to understand that Just Not Everyone Is Totally Oppressed all the time, but MOST of us get it a time or two and we need to shut up about it as we are in Now Time, and being polite and pleasant to others is a worthy goal; we will fail at over and over, and some people ARE bad, and we should NOT spare our vengeance, if it is justified, regardless. Etc.

If you show me a kid who has been told he has the right to defend himself if threatened in a reasonable way, I will say "Go, Texas!" and also that is what I taught my kid IN SCHOOL and I paid THEN and that was like 15 years ago, I have met 7 KIDS so far who were totally and unreasonably been accused of being future murderers by schools.

I ramble but man, the US needs some change, and accepting Ecig death is justifiable, if you consider the reduction in smoking acquisition AND death.

 

[B2L]

Nothing happened to it. People make mistakes. People get distracted. People have bad days. Have you never made a simple careless mistake? Ever?

Dumbest mistakes you've made in vaping (beginners to advanced)

Actually I’ve made many careless errors and mistakes. The difference being, I never set out to blame anyone but myself.

Actually it worked unbelievably well. Look at the numbers.

Motor vehicle fatality rate in U.S. by year - Wikipedia

It has definitely decreased the numbers but there are still quite a few deaths per year.

[/QUOTE]Personal responsibility? That thing the 1% always crow about when it’s to their advantage but seem so adept at actually avoiding themselves? It’s still there.[/QUOTE]

Not sure where the 1% comes in here but I am firmly planted in the other 99%. My point is that people in general are so quick to place blame everywhere but on the individual. Are there cases where a company, organization or other entity are to blame? Absolutely, but people in general are too quick to blame anyone or anything else which does not solve the root cause.

[/QUOTE]Do I think vaping as a whole should be punished because some dude, using a particular type of semi antique device which many agree should no longer be made did something asinine and managed to make himself a Darwin Award contender? No.[/QUOTE]

We agree

[/QUOTE]Everyone is stupid some of the time though. Humans aren’t nearly as aware as they think they are, and there is a sucker born every minute as is said. The ones who THINK they are totally aware all the time are the most dangerous of the lot.[/QUOTE]

Once again, agreed.

[/QUOTE]Do I think even a complete ban on non vented mechs would stop China from making them and selling them to Americans on the internet? No. Chinese Corperations are every bit as concerned with protecting human lives over profit as American , which is to say not at all. That’s how capitalism works.[/QUOTE]

You have a very cynical view of capitalism. Capitalism works when an individual or corporation provides a product or service which someone is willing pay them for. Killing off, or injuring, your customer base (or workforce) is not a very sustainable long term plan for any business.

Once again, this was definitely a tragic situation and I feel for his family and friends. My point was that government intervention is rarely ever the answer (unless it involves protecting the borders or your civil liberties).

 

[RayofLight62]

I share your point Gray beard, but the hard fact is, the Li-Ion batteries were designed with a governing electronics in mind, they simply can't be used like that, as mechs user do. It is forbidden both by the laws of physics and the safety legal policies.

 

[Katya]

Actually I’ve made many careless errors and mistakes. The difference being, I never set out to blame anyone but myself.

Actually, the difference is that you survived your mistakes. And it seems as though you're now blaming the kid for his own death. That kid even went to the vape shop to ask for help with his new device (per shop owner), so he wasn't completely irresponsible or careless. He shouldn't heave died. It's tragic and sad.