Oils and Atomizers

[Idahojo]

Idaho--your ingredient list says "oil of peppermint" --so that means oil--Do you really want to play with the oil after reading all of our posts telling you to the contrary and that we would not do it??--Hope that helps--Sun

I just didn't know if the oil in extract is the same as all the other stuff I'm reading about. Plus I was wondering if the alcohol in it changed the oil. Your brain gets mangled with all the info and opinions. I think I'll just stick to the premade stuff. I'm not interested in all the flavors, just the minty ones. Thanks for the advice.

 

[exogenesis]

Good, can we see the wider 'oil' picture ?
(some) e-liquids have been tested for chemical makeup,
from the point of view of showing only low amounts of chemical that
might be dodgy for health.

I've yet to see any non-annecdotal review of effect of various liquids
(PG, VG, flavours, colourings, 'sugars', oils etc etc) on the life expectancy
of vapourizers).

Seems to me that 'oil-type' flavours may well contain the worst amount
of residue on the coil after heat evaporation (mainly due to amount of oil
present compared to sugar solutions).

If you add say 10% of an oil flavour to an e-liquid, you may be doubling
the amount of oil (lquid has tobacco leaf oil <5%, tobacco leaf oil < 5%),
- but who actually knows if this will halve you atomizer's life?

 

[Sun Vaporer]

I just didn't know if the oil in extract is the same as all the other stuff I'm reading about. Plus I was wondering if the alcohol in it changed the oil. Your brain gets mangled with all the info and opinions. I think I'll just stick to the premade stuff. I'm not interested in all the flavors, just the minty ones. Thanks for the advice.

Idaho--You are welcome. Oil is Oil--and it is not not going anywhere. Believe me, I would love to fire up some of these oil based (wintergreen, Peppermint, etc)--but I am not going to do that at the cost of health and equitment.

 

[Kate]

You might be interested in menthol crystals Jo - http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/2918-menthol-crystals.html

 

[Kate]

... I've yet to see any non-annecdotal review of effect of various liquids (PG, VG, flavours, colourings, 'sugars', oils etc etc) on the life expectancy of vapourizers)...

You might need to use Google translate with this but here is a very good example of the different residues different brands can leave. Apparently e-cig.com fruit flavour eliquids left a lot more residue than non-fruit flavours.

Ampullen en Liquid testje - *E-Cigtest, the ultimate electronic cigarettes review site* Le site de la cigarette électronique

(Pictures of the residue can be seen if you scroll down to the photos of the spoons.)

 

[scrubadub]

I doubt it Scrub. My guess is that commercial eliquid uses trace amounts in tobacco flavours. Some food flavours are also extracted as oils but are then put into a base of propylene glycol, alcohol or water. The poison could well be in the dose?

Ah ok. Would be interesting to know how much oil is in these things. My TW liquid lists tobacco essential <5% and tobaco leaf oil <5% so that could mean there's somewhere between 9-10% oil in there. That sounds like more than trace to me. Then again it could well be .0001% oil and they just thought it sounded better

 

[Kate]

That does sound like a lot of oil, I've no idea what's acceptable (they probably haven't either ).

 

[surbitonPete]

The atomizer doesn't seem to reach enough temperature to vaporize the tobacco leaf oil part of the liquid ....it seems to be the 'oil' that builds up and needs washing out...as I said earlier try setting fire to a little piece of cart material soaked in liquid ....the oil is left behind when the fire goes out.

 

[exogenesis]

...here is a very good example of the different residues different brands can leave...

Thanks for that Kate,
can definately see there's far less with residue with nicotine 0 mg e-liquid.

Some of the pictures of residues are quite startling, esp. the 'Sedansa Tobacco Liquid' = loads of dark brown goo.

Also he points out major differences with the interaction of the drying goo with the metal,
which is an aspect I had not thought of, perhaps there are other factors about this that affect atomizers as well.

Makes me think about buying several atomizers & actually test them on a rigged-up continuous drip/evaporate bench,
to see which of oils/sugars/liquid-strength/colours would kill them first - might save me money in the long run
(assuming we have a long run left).

 

[ZambucaLu]

You might need to use Google translate with this but here is a very good example of the different residues different brands can leave. Apparently e-cig.com fruit flavour eliquids left a lot more residue than non-fruit flavours.

Ampullen en Liquid testje - *E-Cigtest, the ultimate electronic cigarettes review site* Le site de la cigarette électronique

(Pictures of the residue can be seen if you scroll down to the photos of the spoons.)

Kate, do you remember that pic of the atomizer that showed that even though it had been cleaned, there was buildup that pretty much could not be removed, no matter what? That pic always stuck in my mind and personally, I could not fathom adding oil (and/or sugar....imagine that combo!) to this already existing problem and thinking it could somehow be "okay" for the atomizer.

That was a great pic!

Lu

 

[Kate]

I'm not sure which ones you mean Lu, I've got a few bookmarked -

Das Innenleben der Verdampfer

some atomizer pictures.. close up.. - ECigScrewdriver

Black Stuff in Atomisers - *E-Cigtest, the ultimate electronic cigarettes review site* Le site de la cigarette électronique

EDIT
The first link shows a coil which gets cleaned but still looks mucky.

 

[The Wiz]

I'm thinking that it might be a good time to give up using my Loranns wintergreen and start using menthol crystals for my mint DIY.....Too bad though..I will miss that stuffThe Wiz!

 

[surbitonPete]

I suppose it seems odd that we should be worrying about what we are vaping when we all smoked tobacco .....but now we 'do' have a healthier option ...it's a good idea to keep it as healthy as it can possibly be and not be adding things to it ourselves, unless it is known to be harmless.

 

[ZambucaLu]

Gawd! I forgot how gross those were...lol

I can't recall now which one it was but it was followed by an explanation that despite any cleaning, the gunk stays and if you were able to get it clean, the wick would dissolve anyway. And this is without adding any extra oils/sugar to the mix...imagine that combo! Adding more seems it would just add to the demise of the atomizer, no?

I know that we here have tried to advise newbs the best we can in trying to preserve both their health and their equipment. I mean, we don't know what any of this is going to mean for us health-wise 10 years down the road. My thought is "less is better"...."just in case".

But seems some want to throw caution to the wind and hey, if that's what you want to do with your stuff...that's fine....but as someone else said, please don't give other newbs the impression what you are doing is safe without proper evidence that it is. I think we'd rather err on the side of caution here.

Lu

 

[kinabaloo]

The word oil seems to be associated with oil slicks, and car engines. These types of hydrocarbons are different to plant (and animal oils). The word 'oil' is really just descriptive.

Many foods contain a certain amount of oil, such as olives, even oranges. Our bodies complex processes depend often on types of 'oil' and there are oils in our diet that are 'essential' because we cannot make them internally.

Lungs have to clear out all the 'dust' that we breathe, and PG / VG particles. It can handle a tiny amount of oil too. I am not suggesting putting an oil based flavoring in the atomiser a flavoring that is an oil but strong so only a little is needed. I am thinking <5%. I have not cleaned any atomiser yet because they are all working fine. Using a little detergent in a bowl of water like when we wash up our plates is not a health hazard if rinsed after.

If the oil is pure and not in a base oil that is toxic (unlikely) so that only a tiny amount is needed and the original source is not poisonous and it is declared safe for making up a massage oil say, then there should be no problem. After all, essential oils are supposedly natural products and are often used in aromatherapy. It is their intrinsic strength that gives rise to the warnings, but used sparingly i think most would be harmless.

Indeed, plant oils are chemically related to glycerol - esters and glycerides. Better to use pure lemon oil, say, than a flavouring where the natural oil is diluted in vegetable oil, because then one would need just a tiny amount.

I have used small amounts of 'oils' in my mix without any noticeable problems to the atomiser.

Consider when light bulbs blow - when switched on normally. It is the stress of repeated heating and cooling that means an aotimiser cannot have a particularly long life. Further, it has been discussed before that the gunge in the coil is possibly mostly the degraded non-metal wick material that the wire is wound on. Oil has a much higher heat capacity than air so the effect of oil buildup if that happened would be reduced effect, not burnout (the oild would act as a coolant not an heat insulator.

 

[ZambucaLu]

I suppose it seems odd that we should be worrying about what we are vaping when we all smoked tobacco .....but now we 'do' have a healthier option ...it's a good idea to keep it as healthy as it can possibly be and not be adding things to it ourselves, unless it is known to be harmless.

And that's the point Pete. We knew how bad tobacco was. We are all trying to replace that with something healthier. So why take chances when you don't know? Time might prove some of these things harmless. Great! But meanwhile, why not stay as safe as possible....and just use at least what appears to be safe at this time? Why add to the risk?

Lu

 

[The Wiz]

And that's the point Pete. We knew how bad tobacco was. We are all trying to replace that with something healthier. So why take chances when you don't know? Time might prove some of these things harmless. Great! But meanwhile, why not stay as safe as possible....and just use at least what appears to be safe at this time? Why add to the risk?

Lu

I'm with you LuThe Wiz!(my family likes a healthy dad)

 

[ZambucaLu]

If the oil is pure and not in a base oil that is toxic (unlikely) so that only a tiny amount is needed and the original source is not poisonous and it is declared safe for making up a massage oil say, then there should be no problem. After all, essential oils are supposedly natural products and are often used in aromatherapy. It is their intrinsic strength that gives rise to the warnings, but used sparingly i think most would be harmless.

Come back when you have proof of this and I'd be glad to check it out.

Lu

 

[exogenesis]

I think kinabaloo is right, true oil flavours would require significantly less
than aqueous flavours to give a decent flavour.

But I disagree about the gunge being mostly degraded wick
(TW DSE901's have a glass fibre wicks, not kevlar or other plastic).
Also : Build-up = insulation = runs hotter = burnout, surely ?

Just as a matter of interest, here's a complete Loranne flavours list,
I originally posted on the TW site.
Includes the suppliers description & a simplish vaping suitability rating
(whether for health or atomizer life)
(green = good, yellow = maybe, no colour = probably not so good)

Loranne flavour spreadsheet

I'm currently working my way though most of these (colourless ones first),
to get a feel for tastyness / detrimental effects.

 

[kinabaloo]

Neither of us have proof one way ot the other. I am making a judgment of likelihood. I very much doubt there is any health issue and doubt any harm to the atomiser. An atomiser costs not much more than a box of ciggies. That doesnt mean be reckless, and like everyone else i hop to keep them working as long as possible and thinking how to improve their design. But we need to keep this in perspective. Would a few drops (because essential oils highly concentrated that is all that would be needed) be that harmful; i doubt it.