Ok All You Original Maker Type People... Knock It Off...!!!

[stevegmu]

It's still pushing a button on a CNC machine.
There is no skill to modern machining, there's measuring and resetting when it gets out of spec, there's knowledge of running that particular machine.
It's not like me on a watchmaker's lathe cutting a staff for an old watch or a one off shop on an old lathe making parts for a model T. And those actual skilled machining jobs for single pieces don't charge like that.

Could I jump in and do my brother-in-law's job without training? No, but with training I could. Could he jump in and do my job even with training, probably not.
If we went back to the days when factories weren't all roboted and computerized my job there would be above his pay grade. Now my job there is replaced with a computer designer, his job is a keypad and a micrometer.
If they would put a more user friendly GUI on his machine anyone could do it without training.




I highly doubt if child labor is used in a metal machine shop the parts and tools are too heavy. Child labor is more for textiles, toys and fireworks. If you buy or watch most fireworks you're the one supporting child labor.
If you have direct knowledge of child labor in China turn it in. It is illegal in there.

I understand you have no idea how manufacturing works, have no idea what something that is well made and machined looks and feels like, nor can tell the difference between high quality metals and mystery metal, so will leave it at that. Someone actually got it when they said to look at a replica and original under a 6X magnifying glass...

 

[Equilibrium]

Meh... maybe it's just me BUT if I have to put it under ANY magnification to tell the difference it's not worth the extra expense. If it was just a little extra, yeah, but not when I can get 5 Electric Angel clones for what the authentic would cost. And hey... they say the ehpro clone is better than the original anyway. At least when it comes to the EA.

 

[stevegmu]

Some of us like quality things and would rather have fewer things we know will last. There was a post not long ago about rust on a fake Kayfun...

 

[Equilibrium]

I like quality stuff too that's why I buy quality clones like EHPro and Hcigar. Never had a problem with them.

 

[tj99959]

Actually it isn't the mechanical clones (knockoffs) that I worry about. At least we CHOOSE what type of battery we put in them.
It's the clones (knockoffs) that the manufacturer chooses what cell to use (that the user can't even see what they are) that I think have the potential of being a problem.

 

[Asbestos4004]

If you need a 6x magnifying glass to tell the difference, you should definitely buy the clone! Its been months since I vaped while wearing my microscope glasses...

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

If you need a 6x magnifying glass to tell the difference, you should definitely buy the clone! Its been months since I vaped while wearing my microscope glasses...

6x will just help you see exactly why the threads aren't going together right or bind just a bit, or why the clone doesn't polish evenly etc. You'll see the same faults a 0x once you've found them.

Maurice

 

[Asbestos4004]

I don't own anything with those problems but if I ever do, I'll know exactly what to do.

 

[Equilibrium]

Hell, once the finish gets worn, which is gonna happen whether it's an original or a clone - I just put it in the bead blasting cabinet and in a few short minutes I have a completely new looking mod.

 

[NathanielFT]

I support child labor, if the little crumb muncher wants to earn his or her keep, get to work ... Most of these companies go to great lengths to prevent the 1st world population from seeing how the products they consume are made.

Fact of the matter is people who are too tight with their money, too poor yet feel entitled to the better things in life, and just plain old greed drive the creation of clone markets, just as they do child labor, human trafficking and indentured servitude.

Today we are chatting about mods, made by people who stole the design, and offer them for a fraction of the original cost. Part of that conversation will naturally come to how is it possible to reduce the cost of a mod to $16 shipped halfway round the world to your door. I certainly can't ship it back for that. To contrast that we also look at why a mod might cost what it does, why $140+ is in fact a very reasonable price. The vast differential between the two prices for what may very well be a nearly identical pair of devices is what causes us to question either side. Are the modders charging too much? Are the clone prices more reflective of actual costs?

We have talked about why people buy the clones, and why they don't need to buy clones to vape. This evolves into claims of entitlement and counter claims that those who buy originals are flaunting status symbols.

The slamming, your term not mine, is arguably justified by each side.

When Microsoft, Hersheys, Nike, Primark, Samsung, Apple, Nestle, Coca Cola, and Walmart start marketing mods we can seriously drill down on them and the folks who shop there.



Feel ashamed about taking the moral high ground ... are you serious? Few people in this world are the epitome of morality and integrity, but that does not mean we should not make every effort to improve upon our less than perfect selves.

It would be nice to see everyone flocking toward the moral high ground, yet in reality many folks are more interested in their own personal gain than how that gain effects others.



Luck has little to do with it

Maurice

Skim read it as it was a lot to read and your opening sentence ...... me off to be honest. I pointed out child labour as people will happily give their business to other company's who practice the same thing, but are apparently against clones for this very reason, i'm just highlighting the contradiction.

What would be nice would be people to sincerely take the moral high ground and not when it suits them. Someone with a chip on their shoulder because their high end mod they paid hundreds for is being cloned need to get over themselves, i got over a grands worth of Air Jordan's alone, I'm not crying or whining about the people buying fake kicks lol.

Buy want you want, use what you want, worry about yourself and leave the next man to do what he wants too. You got a problem with people using clones? Mad people 'too poor' have a device identical to yours in every way and functions just as well but at a fraction of the cost? That's what it is, your problem, no point in .....ing about it like its gonna make any difference, enjoy what u got and forget about it

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[Asbestos4004]

Equilibrium.... I have a couple provaris, an AUTHENTIC nemesis and a Panzer I need you to blast for me. Are you around Atlanta?

 

[NathanielFT]

6x will just help you see exactly why the threads aren't going together right or bind just a bit, or why the clone doesn't polish evenly etc. You'll see the same faults a 0x once you've found them.

Maurice

Brothers got a genuine 4nine from tarsius customs, i got a clone off ebay and the parts are interchangeable, no issues with threads, hits the same, looks the same, no issues with polishing, but to be fair i know you can get crappy clones out there too


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[Crow2]

People will get a conscience conveniently when it suits them.

/thread

10 characters

 

[Equilibrium]

Equilibrium.... I have a couple provaris, an AUTHENTIC nemesis and a Panzer I need you to blast for me. Are you around Atlanta?

Yeah, I'm in Dacula. Over towards Winder and Athens. I use a friends bead blaster so I'll have to ask and see what type of blast media he has in it now and if he minds. I'll check on it though.

 

[Equilibrium]

Duh... you're in Sugar Hill... you know where Dacula is. LOL

 

[Asbestos4004]

Hahaha... ok. I knew you were local but my phone doesn't give the details. I'm thinking I have a Droid RAZR Maxx clone. The authentic would've drawn me a map to your house and printed out your schedule for me.

 

[Equilibrium]

Hahaha... ok. I knew you were local but my phone doesn't give the details. I'm thinking I have a Droid RAZR Maxx clone. The authentic would've drawn me a map to your house and printed out your schedule for me.

LOL... phones are too smart these days

 

[tj99959]

LOL... phones are too smart these days

That's why I'm on the "DAMNIT, I said don't call" list

 

[Myk]

I understand you have no idea how manufacturing works, have no idea what something that is well made and machined looks and feels like, nor can tell the difference between high quality metals and mystery metal, so will leave it at that. Someone actually got it when they said to look at a replica and original under a 6X magnifying glass...

I can tell that if you think that when someone just mentioned being a watchmaker and having a brother-in-law who is a CNC operator it is you who doesn't know what you are talking about.

LOL at 6x. So less than my normal work magnification. Good one. I'm trained to work under 30x microscopes (not that I do but have done). Got anything else you want to share to show how much you don't know?

Grasping for straws to justify your entitlement. Sorry, you can fool some of the consumers some of the time but you can't fool me.
With your thinking you should quadruple the price of every quality mechanical watch and piece of jewelry out there, and stay away from those child labor cheap quartz watches.

 

[GMayberry]

I am not an advocate for or against clones, or an advocate for or against originals. I feel like someone should buy something that they will enjoy, stay off the cigs with, and they can afford. If something is marketed as an original, but truly is not, THAT IS COUNTERFEIT, NOT A CLONE. If it has the same appearance, and is marketed as a clone, it is a clone. As for if clones are "harmful" to the original maker, here are my thoughts on that. I had posted this in one of the other 46,842 threads about clones vs. originals, and just copied and pasted here. Enjoy:

I will add this, then bow out gracefully. Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery.

Let's say that I make a mod (original) and I call it the 123mod. (it's a mech btw) I make a limited run of 100. That is all that I have the time/ability/desire to make. I am going to sell them for $200 each. They all sell out. I just made $20,000 on my idea.

Let's say you make a mod (original) and you call it the 345mod. (it's a mech too) You make a limited run of 100. That is all that you have the time/ability/desire to make. You are going to sell them for $200 each. They all sell out. You just made $20,000 on your idea.

So far we are equal.... Now.... Some random company decides to make a clone of mine. They mass produce and sell them in all parts of the world. Everyone loves them! It is called a 123mod clone. Now the mod I designed and named becomes more widely known than the original 100 ever would have been on their own. As an artisan, I am happy. I already made the money I intended to make. One day someone sees a 123mod in my hand and asks if it is an original. I say "Yes, actually it is the first. I designed it." He may call my BS, but if not, he is ecstatic because he met the maker of his favorite mod clone. I am flattered.


Now.... you made your money from your original 100, but no one sees it worthy of cloning...

Who feels better about their original design, desire, craftsmanship?