OK, why all the ProVari hate?

[Plumes.91]

this thread has lasted so long because it seems like there is less fighting and more explaining.
although just above, someone came in and said 'there ARE better PVs in the provari's price range"
that is exactly what gets everyone in trouble. an opinion stated like a fact. it makes people angry.
We're all emotional beings. If you have a favorite bike and believe in your heart its the best performing bike...
when someone says "well, its good, but there are definitely better bikes for that price out there" i mean...
It makes you really want question them. What bike or bikes is he referring to? Has he used your bike?
It might be immaturity in some small way, but its also defense of something you believe in.
(at least that is how I see it, simply put) Its not necessarily malicious to say "nope, theres something better"
Thats just some1s opinion... Albeit, its a harsh and blunt opinion with no statements to root it into truth.

As long as you believe that bike is the best device out there, its the best bike out there in your opinion.
You need facts to back that up just as much as someone stating that it is NOT the best bike out there.
Heres the thing: Not everyone agrees that the scope readings are enough to make it the best PV out there.
In many people's opinions, VW beats the scope readings by far, easily making the provari overrated to them.

As long as we all have different ideas of what makes PVs worth while, there cannot be a best device.
That is why we must refer new vapers to reviews so that they can form their own opinions.
And, if you want, give them your opinion of why 1 feature outweighs other features.
Because if you believe fully, in your heart, that VW is more important than the provari's accuset technology...
Or WHATEVER it is your comparing VW to that isn't as important to U.. If you believe that VW is MORE important..
Then your going to give that new vaper an opinion based on your own. and that is fine. Guide them.
But the best thing we can do for new vapers is tell them to watch reviews, then tell them WHY you think what Udo.

 

[kiwivap]

My problem with the provari, like many here have said, is the fanbase. I personally own one and it's NOT the messiah of vaping. It's not even my favorite mod that I own (that title goes to the Saber Touch). It's a great mod, but for it's price tag and it's features it's not really worth it unless you're not part of the 98% of americans with monetary problems.

this thread has lasted so long because it seems like there is less fighting and more explaining.
although just above, someone came in and said 'there ARE better PVs in the provari's price range"
that is exactly what gets everyone in trouble. an opinion stated like a fact. it makes people angry.

I don't see why that would make people angry. He owns a provari,said its a great mod, but he prefers the Saber Touch more.

 

[D4rk50ul]

I think you can expect fans to be fans, but be responsible especially with new members. You accumulated all your knowledge over time and maybe you prefer reading more than others, you cannot expect newbies to have that same level of knowledge or desire to deal with any form of extra effort. I just ordered a Provari as a backup to my REO and because I wanted to give one a shot, so I'm really not on either side of the fence here. When you start arguing about what is better between VV/VW or Hybrid Mechanical vs Regulated you went straight over the head of the guy/gal who is trying to figure out which one will make vapor happen.

I prefer the REO because there is simply nothing you have to mess with on it. If I can get the Provari to that state I will probably enjoy them both equally. I usually refrain from recommending a REO to any new user because its expensive, and although simple it requires some basic knowledge. If I had to recommend to a newbie I almost always aim for as simple as possible, like a two piece design or an ego style setup. This of course changes with the tech level of the person and depends on if I am in person to show them a more complicated device. Nothing puts off a newbie more than spending 10x more time messing with their new e-cig than actually using it.

Just keep those things in mind when you wonder why people might get upset when you recommend a VV tube mod with a rebuildable atomizer to a newbie. We all know that is the end game you want to get to for most, but sometimes in life you actually need to make that journey yourself rather than just jump right to the end. Advice is always welcome but letting someone start simple and make their own mistakes is how most of us ended up learning what we know now.

 

[Plumes.91]

i wasn't referring to that i was referring to dis: "It's a great mod, but for it's price tag and features it's not really worth it". I meant that line, because there are far better mods in it's own price range, let alone ones that are CHEAPER.

 

[kiwivap]

If I had to recommend to a newbie I almost always aim for as simple as possible, like a two piece design or an ego style setup. This of course changes with the tech level of the person and depends on if I am in person to show them a more complicated device. Nothing puts off a newbie more than spending 10x more time messing with their new e-cig than actually using it.

^^^ Agree^^^. we are seeing more newbies wanting to go straight to mods these days, but it is about where they are at. If they say an Ego is too big right now I'll suggest something smaller. At the same time, the ones interested in APVs tend to ask about them and raise the questions themselves. I think advice about battery and charger safety is as important as what APV suits some-ones needs/wants. They also need to know that many people have a real learning curve with RBAs when they come in wanting one because they look cool.

 

[kiwivap]

i wasn't referring to that i was referring to dis: "It's a great mod, but for it's price tag and features it's not really worth it". I meant that line, because there are far better mods in it's own price range, let alone ones that are CHEAPER.

Well he owns some different mods so maybe he'll come back and explain more. Maybe not. In the context of the thread I wouldn't call a provari owner who says its a great mod, prefers a Saber Touch more, and thinks there are others that are better as a hater. He's expressing his preferences. Other provari owners may disagree with that and prefer the provari more. That's their preference.
It isn't everyones preference - I think that's the key.

 

[D4rk50ul]

Good better best. This sounds like the Apple vs Android debate that rages on XDA constantly (I dev for Android). You at some point just need to settle for the fact that there doesn't have to be a best, everyone is going to have personal favorites. Features that some might think make it 100% better others might not even care about, even aesthetics can determine favorites.

I kind of look at Provari like I do a REO. It's a proven design that is a very SAFE choice in a mod. You aren't going to be disappointed with it and you aren't buying it to be on the cutting edge of vaping technology, you simply want something that does what it does extremely well.

 

[kiwivap]

Good better best. This sounds like the Apple vs Android debate that rages on XDA constantly (I dev for Android). You at some point just need to settle for the fact that there doesn't have to be a best, everyone is going to have personal favorites. Features that some might think make it 100% better others might not even care about, even aesthetics can determine favorites.

Pretty much what I was saying. People are going to use the word "better" though - because they think something is better for them. I think some pvs do certain things better than others when I pick one up at home to vape with.

 

[The Ocelot]

... If I had to recommend to a newbie I almost always aim for as simple as possible, like a two piece design or an ego style setup. This of course changes with the tech level of the person and depends on if I am in person to show them a more complicated device. Nothing puts off a newbie more than spending 10x more time messing with their new e-cig than actually using it.

I completely agree with that. I realize people offer new members advanced suggestions in hopes that they won't spend money on a device they might outgrow in a month, but I worry that if the recommendations are too intimidating there will be people stressed and smoking cigarettes while they try and figure out how to vape.

 

[dam718]

The recurring comment I see, and I must agree with, from a lot of ProVari owners is this...

I wish someone had pointed me to a ProVari when I first started, and I would have saved myself a lot of money

I say the same thing now... And it's something a see come up quite often. Sadly, I can't site specific examples, and I suck at searching for specific phrases, but I know I've seen it before... Both directly, and paraphrased / implied...

I won't usually bring up the ProVari unless people ask about it specifically, or they say something to the effect of money being no object.

But yeah, I do wish someone had pointed me towards a ProVari when I first started... And I WOULD have saved myself quite a bit... I eventually got there, and I've enjoyed every step I have taken. Perhaps I am better off, and I appreciate my ProVari a lot more having gone through eGo's, Lavatubes, Vamos, etc... But I definitely notice that now that I have my ProVari and my RBA's, everything else I bought as stepping stones to get to that end point, is all sitting around collecting dust now.

Seems like a waste...

 

[PLANofMAN]

I'm still waiting for a PV that, when I exhale, will let me vanish in the fog like batman.

 

[D4rk50ul]

I completely agree with that. I realize people offer new members advanced suggestions in hopes that they won't spend money on a device they might outgrow in a month, but I worry that if the recommendations are too intimidating there will be people stressed and smoking cigarettes while they try and figure out how to vape.

I speak from personal experience as well. I had a Blue cig starter kit and spent 99% of the time modding the carts, ordering blue foam and pyramid tea bags, and charging the thing. I went to a 510 and at least charged less but still had the cart feeding issue. Started dripping and fixed that "although its hard to drip safely while driving" and then decided I needed a bigger battery. In came the Ego style and it seemed to fit the bill, until I decided I needed a shiny mod.. then VV.. then Bottom Feeders.. then everything else..

Natural progression helped me learn and although I would cut out the first two steps if I could I think the Ego setup would have been the perfect way to start (dripping or now a very simple tank). I didn't mind the money as unlike a lot of new vapers I realized that I was NOT spending $22 a day on cigarettes anymore so I allowed myself freedom to spend. I am pretty sure there was a large thread a couple years back about this very subject, everyone was recommending mods in the new members forum and it was getting very technical rather than an easy transition. **There ARE users who are interested in an expensive and technical starting mod, I recommend a PM conversation with them as you can potentially save them from all the pitfalls most of us went through**

To stay on topic, you will never stop the new mod that just got released from being called the greatest thing on Earth. Until they don't take batteries anymore and run on static electricity from our hands and produce 100% safe smoke like vapor with exact amounts of nicotine there really isn't any reason to be offended. When that happens, we should all bow down... and then throw money at that person who makes it.

 

[The Ocelot]

Actually, I'm glad I wasn't pointed in that direction (a ProThingy) first. I'm glad I didn't get a Twist right off the bat either. I smoked for a very long time and my taste buds are still not very sensitive. I vaped for a couple of months before I got a Twist and it took quite awhile for me to be able to taste juices enough to understand the benefits of VV. I don't feel any money has been wasted on my learning curve. I still use everything I have depending on the situation. For example, earlier tonight I was vaping something variable while looking for a good price for a little 510 manual (my cig-a-likes are auto).

ETA: Oops! I should have quoted dam718's post.

 

[kiwivap]

I am pretty sure there was a large thread a couple years back about this very subject, everyone was recommending mods in the new members forum and it was getting very technical rather than an easy transition. **There ARE users who are interested in an expensive and technical starting mod, I recommend a PM conversation with them as you can potentially save them from all the pitfalls most of us went through**

I've wondered about the transition part. Vaping has become more complex in terms of the options available - the clearomizers, different kinds of cartomizers, atomizers - those alone take some explaining. I don't think its so much about recommending mods, as that more people are asking about them. I've seen the change over the last few months.
And I don't regret any of the pvs I bought. If some-one had recommended a mod to me I would have just ignored them when I was new. I saw some and thought some people were really into their gear, but didn't want one then. So no-one would have saved me any money as I would have bought what I needed. I know some folks use ego size pvs and smaller and are quite happy with them. It really is about where people are at I think. Curiosity is what got me into mods, not dissatisfaction. So my journey has different motivators than some-one else's might.

 

[dam718]

I speak from personal experience as well. I had a Blue cig starter kit and spent 99% of the time modding the carts, ordering blue foam and pyramid tea bags, and charging the thing. I went to a 510 and at least charged less but still had the cart feeding issue. Started dripping and fixed that "although its hard to drip safely while driving" and then decided I needed a bigger battery. In came the Ego style and it seemed to fit the bill, until I decided I needed a shiny mod.. then VV.. then Bottom Feeders.. then everything else..

Natural progression helped me learn and although I would cut out the first two steps if I could I think the Ego setup would have been the perfect way to start (dripping or now a very simple tank). I didn't mind the money as unlike a lot of new vapers I realized that I was NOT spending $22 a day on cigarettes anymore so I allowed myself freedom to spend. I am pretty sure there was a large thread a couple years back about this very subject, everyone was recommending mods in the new members forum and it was getting very technical rather than an easy transition. **There ARE users who are interested in an expensive and technical starting mod, I recommend a PM conversation with them as you can potentially save them from all the pitfalls most of us went through**

To stay on topic, you will never stop the new mod that just got released from being called the greatest thing on Earth. Until they don't take batteries anymore and run on static electricity from our hands and produce 100% safe smoke like vapor with exact amounts of nicotine there really isn't any reason to be offended. When that happens, we should all bow down... and then throw money at that person who makes it.

I think us Hawaii (Insert any other state with extremely high cigarette prices, like New York) vapers are in a bit different position than a lot of others when comparing the cost of vaping to the cost of smoking. Compared to the amount we used to spend smoking, a REO or ProVari is pretty small beans. I spent enough smoking to buy two ProVari's every month... In other parts of the world / country smoking costs considerably less, so absorbing the cost of a more expensive mod seems a bit more cost prohibitive.

 

[eHuman]

The recurring comment I see, and I must agree with, from a lot of ProVari owners is this...


But yeah, I do wish someone had pointed me towards a ProVari when I first started... And I WOULD have saved myself quite a bit... I eventually got there,

and I've enjoyed every step I have taken.

Perhaps I am better off,

and I appreciate my ProVari a lot more having gone through eGo's, Lavatubes, Vamos, etc... But I definitely notice that now that I have my ProVari and my RBA's, everything else I bought as stepping stones to get to that end point, is all sitting around collecting dust now.

Seems like a waste...

While I agree with you and have thought to myself, "If I knew then what I know now...", Hind sight is 20/20. Not many people can be told from the starting gate, get a $160 mod instead of the $55 starter kit, "trust me". I think the learning curve is part of the process.
I can recall being happy at the time with many of my stepping stones and if I hadn't stepped on them, I wouldn't know now what I know now.

 

[eHuman]

I'm still waiting for a PV that, when I exhale, will let me vanish in the fog like batman.

It exsists:
ERA v1 + Pipebomb V3 @ short drag - YouTube
EA - YouTube Whole vid is entertaining, but for ninja vanish start at 5:35

Edit: even better view http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw58hg5wE1s @ 1:26

 

[jimmyh]

I started with a smoov, moved on to an ego-t, picked up a Young June. After that I started looking into the mechanical which in turn I purchased a Legacy Mini. Everything was great until my YJ broke and in turn caused me to buy my ProV. I don't regret the path taken, I did the same with delivery systems. I think the reason the ProV gets much hate as well, much love is due to the fact its very popular. There are many more expensive models out there and they don't receive the love or hate that ProVari's due. I don't hate on any unit as long as it helps us quit the death sticks.

 

[Kropotkin]

Funny thing.

When I first realized that I wanted a real mod instead of another eGo, I started looking around and, of course, the ProVari came up early on in my search. I immediately rejected it for several reasons completely unrelated to cost, but, at that point, I certainly didn't "hate" it. Why on earth would I? Why would anybody "hate" a random gadget simply because it didn't happen to be what s/he wanted?

Well, six months later, and I almost do hate the silly thing, and that's entirely because of the pushiness of its fan base.

All the other mods have their fans, certainly, but you don't see Caravela and Reo and GG fans swarming all over the place like the thought police, ready to leap on anyone who happens by. You don't see them insisting that the only reason somebody might not want their gadget of choice is that they're either too poor or too un-cool to own one. No; the other gadget fans (and I'm a massive Saber Touch fan myself) stay discretely in their own forums for bragging and comparing notes and congratulating each other on new purchases. They seem to like being in small, discerning clubs, and they don't seem to feel the need to bludgeon other people with the superiority of their own choices.

So. From the sociological point of view, I think "ProVari Hate" is actually a pretty interesting phenomenon - as 46 pages of commentary attest!

 

[eHuman]

Don't let the over zealous pushy fanboy's ranting excitement cause you to refuse to even consider the device that he's so excited about.

Another way of saying it. Just because someone is in a permanent honeymoon stardaze over their Provari, and due to either lack of maturity, lack of normal social interactive ability, or the nonsensical ramblings of a person in love pining over their girl, doesn't make the Provari hate worthy.

Face it, you are focusing your hate for the player on the play instead. And there is nothing wrong with the play, it's a rock solid device able to hold it's own in a broad array of categories.

"I hate Mustang's because Bob drove one and he stole my girlfriend, so Mustang's suck!" Do you understand how unfounded, silly and immature it is to not like a thing because of how some people who own them act or get under your skin?

Like it or don't like it (how many haters have never used one I wonder...) but do it on the merits of the device, not on ramblings that you don't understand coming from those who do like it.

*This message is sponsored by a non Provari owner/user. Any similarities to fan-boy-itis is purely coincidental*