PDIB's Making MODs!

[Borescoped]

OK! So I did some searching around using some google-fu (and my google-fu sucks). I'm dropping it in here for everyone also (incase someone in a different thread deletes it...) Enjoy! Sorry for the long post folks!!!
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Here's some google-fu for you folks (with links, to back up what I'm putting here):

Kanthal (Wikipedia): For heating, resistance wire must be stable in air when hot. Kanthal FeCrAl alloy forms a protective layer of aluminum oxide (alumina).[1] Aluminium oxide is an electrical insulator but has a relatively high thermal conductivity; special techniques may be required to make good electrical connections.

Ok, so Kanthal produces an aluminum oxide... here's an MSDS for you on it:

Aluminum Oxide (ESPI Metals - espimetals.com): Keep in mind, the word "may" is not the same as "shall" or "will".

Acute Effects:
Inhalation: Inhalation of finely divided dust may cause coughing, mucous production and shortness of breath.
Ingestion: None recorded.
Skin: May cause irritation.
Eye: Dust may cause eye irritation.

Chronic Effects:
Inhalation: Inhalation of finely divided dust may cause lung damage affecting breathing capacity.
Ingestion: None recorded.
Skin: None recorded.
Eye: None recorded.

Ok, so there's Kanthal wire's oxide, aluminum oxide for ya, quickly, with references I've used... Also, please note that those references on the MSDS state "dust".
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Let's look at Titanium now!

Titanium (Wikipedia): Like aluminium and magnesium metal surfaces, titanium metal and its alloys oxidize immediately upon exposure to air.|||||Oxides, sulfides, and alkoxides: The most important oxide is TiO2.

So, now, let's look at the MSDS's for Titanium Oxide (TiO) and Titanium (TiO2):

Titanium Oxide (TiO) (ESPI Metals - espimetals.com): Once again, please keep in mind, the word "may" is not the same as "shall" or "will".

Acute Effects:
Inhalation: Dust may cause irritation to the upper respiratory tract and mucous membranes.
Ingestion: No acute health effects recorded.
Skin: Prolonged or repeated contact may cause irritation.
Eye: Prolonged or repeated contact may cause irritation.

Chronic Effects:
Inhalation: May cause slight lesions in the lungs, lung fibrosis, bronchitis and emphysema. No other chronic health effects recorded.
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Titanium Oxide (TiO2) (ESPI Metals - espimetals.com): Once again, please keep in mind, the word "may" is not the same as "shall" or "will".

Acute Effects:
Inhalation: High concentrations of dust may cause mild, temporary irritation to the upper respiratory tract and mucous membranes.
Ingestion: No acute health effects recorded.
Skin: May cause mild irritation.
Eye: May cause 'foreign body' irritation.

Chronic Effects:
Inhalation: Long-term exposure to high concentrations may cause increased mucous flow in the nose and respiratory system, decreased lung function, mild fibrosis, and thickening of the lining of the lung cavity.
Ingestion: No chronic health effects recorded.
Skin: No chronic health effects recorded.
Eye: No chronic health effects recorded.

Medical Conditions Possibly Aggravated by Overexposure: Pre-existing respiratory disorders.
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Ok then! That was a lot to hyperlink/cut/paste ect. So I went ahead and added all the info that folks were asking for. Now, when the Ti wire comes out, will I be afraid to use it? Heck no! I'll gladly try it out and see if it's better. <----- anyonee can quote me on that statement by the way!

Having said that, after looking at what I just posted here (with links to MSDS's), I can't see how Kanthal is substantially (even remotely) worse than the Titanium. If there is something out there that shows that the Kanthal is worse for us, would anyone please educate us (me) by showing us the document(s)? As far as I'm concerned, no matter if the metal I'm using for my coils is Kanthal or Titanium, it's still WAY better for me than cigarettes...

 

[Treebeard]

Thanks for doing the research, Borescoped.

 

[turbocad6]

On the atomizer . . .. . prototype, I should say: T-cad, the airflow is "normal", with an AFC sleeve and an option for running single or dual (opposing) air holes. SFM, as far as I know, the deck is not concave. It's really rather a small chamber (I specified 14mm), so there's not a whole lot of places for the juice to run off to. That, and gravity, ought to pretty much take care of things. I have yet to vape it. VH has good things to say about the vape quality. All I've done so far is draw a lot of pictures, strain my brain, and work together with VH on refining. The ideal that I'm shooting for here is no posts whatsoever. At this stage, there's still some Pos. post in the design. I'm hoping to figure a way around that, once I've got the prototype in hand. More precisely, I've had an idea all along; but need the atty with the Neg. wire capture in place to prove out the idea (and possibly tweak it, perfect it, or be relieved of it.)


One thing that sprang to mind, when I saw ValHeli's pics of the completed prototype, was that it sure would look nice with the AFC sleeve in copper. The artiste with whom VH has been working (I won't say who, as it may not be my place to mention) may not be able to accommodate that desire (?). I will certainly ask, tho. Also, said atty master has been squeezing us in around his normal production schedule (which I appreciate greatly), and some details hadn't been discussed any too thoroughly. We've been focusing primarily on the structure and dimensions. Some of the aesthetics, from where I sit, are a surprise. (the pips)

what threw me off was that hole in the side of the base, between the 2 o-rings, can't figure out what all that extra space in the base thickness is about, maybe it's got to do with your postless design? what's the reason for postless? is that hole for a wire retention screw? anyway I think if you can do a copper cap that would look so sweet on the dibi with copper plate, I love the way mine looks now with the copper atty, really completes the high end look. not sure if you are working with vicious ant, they actually built the atty base for the quasar for cosmic innovations but I think that cosmic innovations builds their own cap and then sources just the base from VA? another good company I've heard to work with for stuff like this is UD, the makers of the igo line, I think they're open to working with other manufacturers for components like this from what I've heard

 

[Borescoped]

Thanks for doing the research, Borescoped.

Your welcome! Hopefully it helps out (even though I'm not the smartest guy when it comes to that fancy stuff...)
Now, give me a jet engine in pieces and I'll build it up for you!

 

[Treebeard]

Your welcome! Hopefully it helps out (even though I'm not the smartest guy when it comes to that fancy stuff...)
Now, give me a jet engine in pieces and I'll build it up for you!

LOL! I'll keep that in mind the next time my Learjet needs repair.

 

[pdib]

what threw me off was that hole in the side of the base, between the 2 o-rings, can't figure out what all that extra space in the base thickness is about, maybe it's got to do with your postless design? what's the reason for postless? is that hole for a wire retention screw? anyway I think if you can do a copper cap that would look so sweet on the dibi with copper plate, I love the way mine looks now with the copper atty, really completes the high end look. not sure if you are working with vicious ant, they actually built the atty base for the quasar for cosmic innovations but I think that cosmic innovations builds their own cap and then sources just the base from VA? another good company I've heard to work with for stuff like this is UD, the makers of the igo line, I think they're open to working with other manufacturers for components like this from what I've heard

yes.

the reason is fun. On the one hand, it frees up the creative coil builder to utilize the chamber in new and different ways. (imagine a long nano/dragon running straight down the center of the atty with the airflow hitting it like a tunnel) Another reason is to be different; both me and the coil builder. Also, too, tho, without the posts using up real estate (and the space used by clearing the posts with one's build), I was trying to do a resulting chamber size that could go from accommodating a 1Ω single coil (gentle, normal vape) to packing a couple of serious coils in there for a stomping dual in a 14 x 8 mm chamber. And, I thought it would be cool to see what airflow does when there's nothing in there but the build and the cylindrical chamber. (fewer variables, more control . . .. . perhaps)

Long→short. Let's all just find out, shall we? (it'll be fun)

 

[pdib]

LOL! I'll keep that in mind the next time my Learjet needs repair.

and you know who to come to when the tires need peein' on, right?

 

[Borescoped]

yes.

the reason is fun. On the one hand, it frees up the creative coil builder to utilize the chamber in new and different ways. (imagine a long nano/dragon running straight down the center of the atty with the airflow hitting it like a tunnel) Another reason is to be different; both me and the coil builder. Also, too, tho, without the posts using up real estate (and the space used by clearing the posts with one's build), I was trying to do a resulting chamber size that could go from accommodating a 1Ω single coil (gentle, normal vape) to packing a couple of serious coils in there for a stomping dual in a 14 x 8 mm chamber. And, I thought it would be cool to see what airflow does when there's nothing in there but the build and the cylindrical chamber. (fewer variables, more control . . .. . perhaps)

Long→short. Let's all just find out, shall we? (it'll be fun)

I'm really looking forward to Pdib getting vapemail now!

 

[Borescoped]

and you know who to come to when the tires need peein' on, right?

Hey now... I've done a bit of that in my day on C-130's...

Please, don't tell the Crew Chief's though... that's how fights get started ROFL.

 

[Megan Kogijiki Ratchford]

Your welcome! Hopefully it helps out (even though I'm not the smartest guy when it comes to that fancy stuff...)
Now, give me a jet engine in pieces and I'll build it up for you!

I use a heck of a lot more awful stuff at the studio than those widdle coils could cause. Strontium?? Sure, but I prefer Barium. Want a copper wash on a piece go at it, take a tablespoon of the CuO and toss it in there then add a teaspoon of Gerstly Borate and add enough water and mix well. Slop it all over yourself? No worries. Same with FeO. Titanium O2, makes a nice wash for Salt firing. Oh and firing with salt? The heat breaks the sodium and chlorine molecules apart but there is only extreme chlorine around two feet from the kiln before it recombines with the free sodium, but it lasts hours. Firing with soda? Breaks into sodium and hydrochloric acid and never ever recombines for miles and miles. Yearn for the burn!!!

That's my every day exposure, coils? PFFFFTT, wimps...suck the dust!!!

 

[damselle]

Well, I'M STILL HERE!!!!!!!!

 

[Borescoped]

Well, I'M STILL HERE!!!!!!!!

Yay!

/hugs

BTW, did you ever get around to checking your PM's?

 

[Kentastic]

Strontium?? Sure, but I prefer Barium.

Barium??!! I didn't even know him!

 

[Megan Kogijiki Ratchford]

Barium??!! I didn't even know him!

*badum CHING*

 

[damselle]

Yay!

/hugs

BTW, did you ever get around to checking your PM's?

I never got the PM Boro....

 

[unsure]

yes.

the reason is fun. On the one hand, it frees up the creative coil builder to utilize the chamber in new and different ways. (imagine a long nano/dragon running straight down the center of the atty with the airflow hitting it like a tunnel) Another reason is to be different; both me and the coil builder. Also, too, tho, without the posts using up real estate (and the space used by clearing the posts with one's build), I was trying to do a resulting chamber size that could go from accommodating a 1Ω single coil (gentle, normal vape) to packing a couple of serious coils in there for a stomping dual in a 14 x 8 mm chamber. And, I thought it would be cool to see what airflow does when there's nothing in there but the build and the cylindrical chamber. (fewer variables, more control . . .. . perhaps)

Long→short. Let's all just find out, shall we? (it'll be fun)

Will be seeing one of your videos with your new atty?

 

[turbocad6]

sounds like fun, I'm down to play with a new atty. I've had a few ideas for atty designs but never really got into making too much on my lathe with the ideas I have, nice to see you playing with your ideas there, I've got so many theories in my head about air volume vs vapor density vs laminar airflow vs turbulence vs vapor condensation/dilution etc but theories are nothing more than just that until it's actually implemented, good on you for actually building it. are you varying the chamber size here with the top cap piece or is it a static volume? if you're looking for something to go from a single coil all the way up to quads then they're going to need very different amounts of chamber volumes I think if you are looking for peak flavor from both ends of the spectrum. I believe chamber volume above all else will dictate the amount of coils that are appropriate for peak flavor but of course airflow dynamics also play a big part, without variable volume I'd suggest just building to a targeted build, weather single coil tiny chamber or slightly larger but built for duals, one size fits all isn't going to get you to peek in every area for every build I think. variable volume isn't a necessity when the volume is suited to a specific build but I think you would need that if you really want to build an atty that can go from a single all the way up to quads. I've got plenty of theory and ideas wouldn't mind giving input if you ever wanted another opinion or ideas

 

[Aal_]

I was thinking in the same line when pdib mentioned single and duals. Maybe provide different caps. That would be great. I'll be waiting impatiently for that atty as well.

 

[pdib]

Well, now, did y'all notice how much room there is to lift up on that cap? IDK, like slide an o-ring down around the lip of the base . .. . . . ?



(it does raise the airholes; but I figure, 2-3 mm in added coil height would still be readily wickable.)




but i came in here to pm copter with a question . . . so, off to it.

 

[SkinyFatMan]

sounds like fun, I'm down to play with a new atty. I've had a few ideas for atty designs but never really got into making too much on my lathe with the ideas I have, nice to see you playing with your ideas there, I've got so many theories in my head about air volume vs vapor density vs laminar airflow vs turbulence vs vapor condensation/dilution etc but theories are nothing more than just that until it's actually implemented, good on you for actually building it. are you varying the chamber size here with the top cap piece or is it a static volume? if you're looking for something to go from a single coil all the way up to quads then they're going to need very different amounts of chamber volumes I think if you are looking for peak flavor from both ends of the spectrum. I believe chamber volume above all else will dictate the amount of coils that are appropriate for peak flavor but of course airflow dynamics also play a big part, without variable volume I'd suggest just building to a targeted build, weather single coil tiny chamber or slightly larger but built for duals, one size fits all isn't going to get you to peek in every area for every build I think. variable volume isn't a necessity when the volume is suited to a specific build but I think you would need that if you really want to build an atty that can go from a single all the way up to quads. I've got plenty of theory and ideas wouldn't mind giving input if you ever wanted another opinion or ideas

I'm always available to beta test it if you need Pete!