PDIB's Making MODs!

[Xobeloot]

I learned some time ago to avoid arguments/discussions like that because I go from

To

Anyways.... It's D&D time!

Sent from the zoo using Tapatypo 2

 

[super_X_drifter]

I learned some time ago to avoid arguments/discussions like that because I go from

To

Anyways.... It's D&D time!

Sent from the zoo using Tapatypo 2

I hear you, except I think it's the guy who makes the GG and friends. He seems pretty adamant about Kanthal being unhealthy to breathe off of once it's oxidized.

 

[Borescoped]

I hear you, except I think it's the guy who makes the GG and friends. He seems pretty adamant about Kanthal being unhealthy to breathe off of once it's oxidized.

IMO, such "alarmist" claims need to be backed up with documentation, such as a MSDS. Have they linked to a MSDS for both, or some sort of scientific documentation backing up their claims?

Having said that, Ti resistance wires sound interesting, and I'm curious as to how this will play out.

 

[Treebeard]

IMO, such "alarmist" claims need to be backed up with documentation, such as a MSDS. Have they linked to a MSDS for both, or some sort of scientific documentation backing up their claims?

Having said that, Ti resistance wires sound interesting, and I'm curious as to how this will play out.

I read that whole thread and saw little to no factual data to back up any claims. I'm more concerned about the crusty build up from the juice than from fumes from kanthal/nichrome. I'm no scientist but I don't think the wire gets hot enough to out gas. The Ti does sound interesting though.

 

[Megan Kogijiki Ratchford]

IMO, such "alarmist" claims need to be backed up with documentation, such as a MSDS. Have they linked to a MSDS for both, or some sort of scientific documentation backing up their claims?

Having said that, Ti resistance wires sound interesting, and I'm curious as to how this will play out.

THIS! I want scientifically documented evidence, otherwise it's just an opinion. As a potter i have electric kilns that have kanthal wire elements that take three days to fire off hitting max temp of 1840 after 26 hours. I breath that ALL THE TIME and the worst part of electric kiln use is the CO gas as the pots vent off the combustible elements in the clay and the MgO vented from the dark brown clays during bisquing. These kiln elements are very documented and everything is quantified and no one, NO ONE with the MSDS has said anything about the elements being a factor of danger!!!

 

[Aal_]

THIS! I want scientifically documented evidence, otherwise it's just an opinion. As a potter i have electric kilns that have kanthal wire elements that take three days to fire off hitting max temp of 1840 after 26 hours. I breath that ALL THE TIME and the worst part of electric kiln use is the CO gas as the pots vent off the combustible elements in the clay and the MgO vented from the dark brown clays during bisquing. These kiln elements are very documented and everything is quantified and no one, NO ONE with the MSDS has said anything about the elements being a factor of danger!!!

After reading your post, I'm feeling everything in the ecig world is being blown out of proportion these days.

 

[Megan Kogijiki Ratchford]

After reading your post, I'm feeling everything in the ecig world is being blown out of proportion these days.

Yes, so much yes...I have been dealing with so much of what we use as vapers and in a far more concentrated way in much larger quantities. Now if folks want to do something really terrible to their lungs and neurological system use copper wire. Copper is horrid to your system but again it is only that bad when you take it past the melting point of copper and no one vapes that hot!!

Yes, as vapers we are all having to sort the wheat from the chaff...and need a degree in metallurgy and geophysics...

 

[Borescoped]

It just doesn't sound right that someone (regardless if they make a mod or not), all of a sudden KNOWS that kanthal is BAD for you, but what they are putting out there for you to buy and make coils out of is GOOD for you. W/out verified documentation, I'll continue to run the kanthal, as I have had no problems with it at all. If documentation can be provided by said mod maker and friends about improved benefits of using the Ti wire, great! I'd gladly read it and make an informed decision based on that. But to come onto a forum and start telling everyone that kanthal is bad for you w/out back up information... wow, you'd think that the everyone in the world that vapes would have heard about this by now, and large websites (including ECF) would have had warnings out about it.

Sounds a little fishy to me, but I'm just coming at this with healthy skepticism.

 

[Kataphraktos]

I'm no doctor, but I do play a brain transplant surgeon on TV. I will switch to titanium scalpels, see if they improve my surgical technique.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

 

[Megan Kogijiki Ratchford]

I'm no doctor, but I do play a brain transplant surgeon on TV. I will switch to titanium scalpels, see if they improve my surgical technique.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

Um....actually they do as they hold a sharper edge longer...I know this because I have folks who work in surgery bringing in old tools that would just get thrown away that are wonderful for clay work...

 

[pdib]

On the atomizer . . .. . prototype, I should say: T-cad, the airflow is "normal", with an AFC sleeve and an option for running single or dual (opposing) air holes. SFM, as far as I know, the deck is not concave. It's really rather a small chamber (I specified 14mm), so there's not a whole lot of places for the juice to run off to. That, and gravity, ought to pretty much take care of things. I have yet to vape it. VH has good things to say about the vape quality. All I've done so far is draw a lot of pictures, strain my brain, and work together with VH on refining. The ideal that I'm shooting for here is no posts whatsoever. At this stage, there's still some Pos. post in the design. I'm hoping to figure a way around that, once I've got the prototype in hand. More precisely, I've had an idea all along; but need the atty with the Neg. wire capture in place to prove out the idea (and possibly tweak it, perfect it, or be relieved of it.)


One thing that sprang to mind, when I saw ValHeli's pics of the completed prototype, was that it sure would look nice with the AFC sleeve in copper. The artiste with whom VH has been working (I won't say who, as it may not be my place to mention) may not be able to accommodate that desire (?). I will certainly ask, tho. Also, said atty master has been squeezing us in around his normal production schedule (which I appreciate greatly), and some details hadn't been discussed any too thoroughly. We've been focusing primarily on the structure and dimensions. Some of the aesthetics, from where I sit, are a surprise. (the pips)

 

[Borescoped]

On the atomizer . . .. . prototype, I should say: T-cad, the airflow is "normal", with an AFC sleeve and an option for running single or dual (opposing) air holes. SFM, as far as I know, the deck is not concave. It's really rather a small chamber (I specified 14mm), so there's not a whole lot of places for the juice to run off to. That, and gravity, ought to pretty much take care of things. I have yet to vape it. VH has good things to say about the vape quality. All I've done so far is draw a lot of pictures, strain my brain, and work together with VH on refining. The ideal that I'm shooting for here is no posts whatsoever. At this stage, there's still some Pos. post in the design. I'm hoping to figure a way around that, once I've got the prototype in hand. More precisely, I've had an idea all along; but need the atty with the Neg. wire capture in place to prove out the idea (and possibly tweak it, perfect it, or be relieved of it.)


One thing that sprang to mind, when I saw ValHeli's pics of the completed prototype, was that it sure would look nice with the AFC sleeve in copper. The artiste with whom VH has been working (I won't say who, as it may not be my place to mention) may not be able to accommodate that desire (?). I will certainly ask, tho. Also, said atty master has been squeezing us in around his normal production schedule (which I appreciate greatly), and some details hadn't been discussed any too thoroughly. We've been focusing primarily on the structure and dimensions. Some of the aesthetics, from where I sit, are a surprise. (the pips)

I'm looking forward to you testing out your design and approving it. I definitely would like to see the AFC sleeve in copper to complement the copper plate on some OliveR's, so hopefully that can become a reality!

 

[pdib]

On the Titanium. If it's better (faster, cleaner, more dynamic), I'll vape it.

On the Kanthal . .. . . . . . whatever.

 

[B2L]

On the dibi atty, WANT!

On the titanium wire, there is so much we don't know the long term effects of, and may not for years to come. This is true with most everything about vaping from the wire to the ingredients in our juice. We can make educated decisions based on their uses in other fields, ie Megan's experience with kanthal in kilns, and we can go from anecdotal evidence and say with assurance that it is far better than smoking. I'm glad there are people that are pushing the envelope, and are much smarter than I am, to move things forward but to expect hard evidence of the safety or lack thereof at this stage of the game is, IMO, not feasible. It's like diacetyl, it is known to be dangerous so new compounds were introduced to replace it but we don't know if they are safer, the same or more dangerous than what they replaced.

I do agree that to come out and say that what we've been using all along is dangerous so if you don't use my new product, you must not care about your health is fear mongering. I do have the utmost respect for Imeo and his contributions to the vaping community but think he could have introduced this in a better fashion.

Sorry for the long post, I'll go back to my corner now.

 

[Megan Kogijiki Ratchford]

On the dibi atty, WANT!

On the titanium wire, there is so much we don't know the long term effects of, and may not for years to come. This is true with most everything about vaping from the wire to the ingredients in our juice. We can make educated decisions based on their uses in other fields, ie Megan's experience with kanthal in kilns, and we can go from anecdotal evidence and say with assurance that it is far better than smoking. I'm glad there are people that are pushing the envelope, and are much smarter than I am, to move things forward but to expect hard evidence of the safety or lack thereof at this stage of the game is, IMO, not feasible. It's like diacetyl, it is known to be dangerous so new compounds were introduced to replace it but we don't know if they are safer, the same or more dangerous than what they replaced.

I do agree that to come out and say that what we've been using all along is dangerous so if you don't use my new product, you must not care about your health is fear mongering. I do have the utmost respect for Imeo and his contributions to the vaping community but think he could have introduced this in a better fashion.

Sorry for the long post, I'll go back to my corner now.

Very well put!! And do I think there are no better option for people who vape? Of course not! As our vaping increases in longevity experiences we will know and adopt that knowledge into our practices. Do I think vaping is better than smoking? For me it is and the beginnings of scientific exploration says it is, so I vape and not smoke. Is being a potter better than vaping? No, every time I walk into the studio I am building layers of silica that will never come out of my lungs. I WILL have lung problems because I'm a potter. Yet, I still do it, love it and will continue to be a potter even with centuries of evidence that it is bad for me yet I will exclude all lead from my glazes and limit my exposure to MgO. I'll keep vaping because it is better than smoking until new REAL scientific experiments tell me different.

We are wandering into uncharted waters here and the best we can do is be attentive to our own bodies and their reactions...Here there be dragons....

 

[Borescoped]

I just want to make sure everyone knows that I'm not downing on Ti wire as a possible resistance wire, or it being "better". My gripe/rant is someone stating that kanthal is bad to vape on, and how that individual went about not backing up their statements, just giving out unsubstantiated opinions/claims.
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I agree with Pdib about faster, cleaner "better" on the Ti wire. If it's better, awesome, I'll try it out myself if i can get my hands on some.

I disagree with saying that Kanthal is bad for you though. I read that entire thread you linked SXD, and not once did I see anyone post anything that didn't have to do with welding fumes, and no links to anything, just a bunch of "go google it" or "I can't tell you at this time"...

Claiming that the Ti wire you are going to sell is better than kanthal, that's one thing. No arguments from me on that.

Coming out and saying that using Kanthal as we vapers do is BAD for you w/out showing people why it is, comes out looking shady and just makes it sound like you are trying to discredit what folks are currently using so that you can sell your product, based on fear mongering and/or scare tactics... IMO of course.

Here is a link I found regarding someone else digging around a couple of months ago about this same thing:

Did some research on the safety of heating A-1 Kanthal wire.

Inside that post is a few links to pertinent info regarding kanthal wire. If vapors from kanthal were that bad, poor Meg should be dying by now I'd think... (and we wouldn't want that happening, we need more "inspired" artwork from her )

Sorry for the rant, I got a little irritated reading that thread.

/rantoff

 

[Megan Kogijiki Ratchford]

I just want to make sure everyone knows that I'm not downing on Ti wire as a possible resistance wire, or it being "better". My gripe/rant is someone stating that kanthal is bad to vape on, and how that individual went about not backing up their statements, just giving out unsubstantiated opinions/claims.
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I agree with Pdib about faster, cleaner "better" on the Ti wire. If it's better, awesome, I'll try it out myself if i can get my hands on some.

I disagree with saying that Kanthal is bad for you though. I read that entire thread you linked SXD, and not once did I see anyone post anything that didn't have to do with welding fumes, and no links to anything, just a bunch of "go google it" or "I can't tell you at this time"...

Claiming that the Ti wire you are going to sell is better than kanthal, that's one thing. No arguments from me on that.

Coming out and saying that using Kanthal as we vapers do is BAD for you w/out showing people why it is, comes out looking shady and just makes it sound like you are trying to discredit what folks are currently using so that you can sell your product, based on fear mongering and/or scare tactics... IMO of course.

Here is a link I found regarding someone else digging around a couple of months ago about this same thing:

Did some research on the safety of heating A-1 Kanthal wire.

Inside that post is a few links to pertinent info regarding kanthal wire. If vapors from kanthal were that bad, poor Meg should be dying by now I'd think... (and we wouldn't want that happening, we need more "inspired" artwork from her )

Sorry for the rant, I got a little irritated reading that thread.

/rantoff

So did I. I don't think all of what we use is as good as non polluted air, but scare tactics using bad science or no science makes me YELLY!!!! So many scientific studies are done so poorly the fact they were published is very sad. I could rip so many "scientific studies" apart as their claims are so weak as there is little definitive proof of anything. First thing they do is assume an outcome, then only discuss their findings that support their assumptions. Read them in detail and their "findings" fall apart.

And electric kilns with those "harmful" heating elements have been used since the 1800's...literally NO ONE has been concerned with the heating elements...let alone causes any problems as my dear friend Nan Mckinnell (may she rest in peace) who worked around these dangerous elements every day for 75 years till her death a month shy of 100...

 

[Treebeard]

I just want to make sure everyone knows that I'm not downing on Ti wire as a possible resistance wire, or it being "better". My gripe/rant is someone stating that kanthal is bad to vape on, and how that individual went about not backing up their statements, just giving out unsubstantiated opinions/claims.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree with Pdib about faster, cleaner "better" on the Ti wire. If it's better, awesome, I'll try it out myself if i can get my hands on some.

I disagree with saying that Kanthal is bad for you though. I read that entire thread you linked SXD, and not once did I see anyone post anything that didn't have to do with welding fumes, and no links to anything, just a bunch of "go google it" or "I can't tell you at this time"...

Claiming that the Ti wire you are going to sell is better than kanthal, that's one thing. No arguments from me on that.

Coming out and saying that using Kanthal as we vapers do is BAD for you w/out showing people why it is, comes out looking shady and just makes it sound like you are trying to discredit what folks are currently using so that you can sell your product, based on fear mongering and/or scare tactics... IMO of course.

Here is a link I found regarding someone else digging around a couple of months ago about this same thing:

Did some research on the safety of heating A-1 Kanthal wire.

Inside that post is a few links to pertinent info regarding kanthal wire. If vapors from kanthal were that bad, poor Meg should be dying by now I'd think... (and we wouldn't want that happening, we need more "inspired" artwork from her )

Sorry for the rant, I got a little irritated reading that thread.

/rantoff

Quite understandable. I have the same sentiments about it....and rayon

 

[Rossum]

Everyone has some pet theory why everything we do is bad. Pick a wicking material and someone has a reason why we shouldn't use it; doesn't matter whether it's silica, ceramic, stainless steel, cotton, or rayon; it's all bad! Pick a resistance wire material and there's a theory why we shouldn't use that. Somewhere I read that the plastic bottles we're squonking our juice from are bad. Then there's the juice itself. Yeah, we know what's in it -- if we vape unflavored -- otherwise all bets are off.

Keep worrying about this stuff and it will drive you to drinking, or worse yet, back to smoking.

 

[B2L]

Everyone has some pet theory why everything we do is bad. Pick a wicking material and someone has a reason why we shouldn't use it; doesn't matter whether it's silica, ceramic, stainless steel, cotton, or rayon; it's all bad! Pick a resistance wire material and there's a theory why we shouldn't use that. Somewhere I read that the plastic bottles we're squonking our juice from are bad. Then there's the juice itself. Yeah, we know what's in it -- if we vape unflavored -- otherwise all bets are off.

Keep worrying about this stuff and it will drive you to drinking, or worse yet, back to smoking.

Life is a terminal condition.