Pipe tobacco and Cigar extraction

[Ian444]

I made up this simple and hopefully useful calculator in excel for mixing NET (or other) extracts with correct extract ratio, PG/VG and nic content. The other available calculators are too over the top for me

View attachment NETcalc5.xls

 

[Bunnykiller]

Bunny,

How did you filter your VG extract? I ask not to criticize, but simply out of curiosity, since coil-crusting and wick-gunking are inevitable with NETs, and we're all learning how to minimize them or at least slow down the negative effects of such built-up crud. The higher-tech extraction methods (steam and CO2) are apparently "cleaner," but few home extractors could afford that kind of equipment. For the vast majority of us, simple-soak macerations are the extraction method of choice, but the very nature of that process causes the unavoidable breakup of tobacco cellulose into tiny particulates that end up suspended in the solvent.

Removal of particulates after the maceration steep becomes significant, and the main reason for filtering. With its thicker viscosity, 100% VG is obviously more challenging than PG or other, thinner solvents to typical home-based filtering procedures (i.e., gravity-based passage through coffee filters or cotton-stuffed plunger syringes).

I've concluded that 100% VG macerations essentially demand laboratory-type forced filtering, typically with vacuum pumps, Erlenmeyer flasks, Buchner funnels, and lab-quality filter paper. Even then, multiple passes may be necessary through progressively finer-pore filters.

at the moment I am using coffee filters ( double layered) untill the majority is drained from the tobacco by gravity. I then take the drained tobacco, place into 2 new filters and wrap a silk scarf around the filter bundle and do a twist to force out the rest of the available VG. Once that is complete, it gets one more gravity fed filter thru double layer coffie filters... very time consuming. I have been looking intently into vacuum or press type of units over the last couple of weeks. I didnt want to spend too much on equipment only to find out that I didnt like the juice I would be producing... but since the results from experimenting have been positive flavor wise, the equipment costs will be justified

 

[Bunnykiller]

and to add...
the PGA steeping and filtering is a breeze. I set up a double coffee filter in an old coffee filter basket over a container and pour/dump the tobacco extract into the filter and let gravity do its thing, the tobacco is nearly dry after 10 minutes of draining. I even went as far as doing the silk scarf squeeze to see if I could get any more "juice" from the tobacco bundle, got maybe an additional tablespoon or 2 from it ( this was a 2 oz bundle) the time consuming portion of the process is the reduction of the PGA to a concentrated volume ( several hours to reduce a couple of ounces to a couple of tablespoons at 140-150F)

 

[PaulBHC]

I have a single cup pour over coffee filter holder similar to this

Melitta® Pour Over Single Cup Brewing Cone - BedBathandBeyond.com

I picked this link because it is cheap and at bed bath and beyond.

I have old gold plated mesh filter baskets. I place the bulk in the basket, with the basket in a Melitta filter, in the holder over a mug.

Final filter in a 60ml syringe with a cotton ball in the bottom but I am going to try the new rayon that I got for wicks.

 

[boomerdude]

Rayon? Wicks? Dude! Be careful.

 

[badnaamsingh]

I had posted this in the DIY liquid thread but it was suggested this thread might be better...


So, I tried extracting flavor from a cigar for the first time.

Cut up the cigar into thin pieces, poured PG (eyeballed it enough to cover) into the mason jar and cooked in a pressure cooker in low setting for 11 hours. The mason jar was propped up with a base in the pressure cooker, the lid was was screwed only slightly and there was about couple of pints of water in it.

I filtered the lot through a coffee filter and got about 180 ml of flavor liquid.

#1 - Not sure if I am supposed to get 180 ml, cause I didn't put that much PG in it. Is there some water vapor that's condensed in it? Do I need to get rid of the water somehow? It's dark brown in color.

#2 I was hoping for a cigar type aroma or at least some type of sweet natural tobacco smell. This thing does not smell like that at all . The best description I can think of is..some kind of rotten grass smell (if you leave lawn clippings in the green bin and smell it after 3-4 days). It's not overtly unpleasant, but it definitely doesn't smell like that cigar. It wasn't a high end cigar, but it smelled pretty good to me.

Is this how it's supposed to be? What has been your experience?

Thanks

 

[xpen]

Rayon? Wicks? Dude! Be careful.

Hopefully rayon shouldn't be harmful, as a wick..
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=561226

 

[Bunnykiller]

Rayon? Wicks? Dude! Be careful.

thats what I thought too, but there is more and more reviews on it showing up in several of the forums here on ECF with alot of praise for it. I thought it was a synthetic, an oil product, but it turns out it is a plant product... cellulose something ( slips my mind at the moment... been snortin evaporating ethanol and tobacco essence ).

 

[Ian444]

#1 - Not sure if I am supposed to get 180 ml, cause I didn't put that much PG in it. Is there some water vapor that's condensed in it? Do I need to get rid of the water somehow? It's dark brown in color.

#2 I was hoping for a cigar type aroma or at least some type of sweet natural tobacco smell. This thing does not smell like that at all . The best description I can think of is..some kind of rotten grass smell (if you leave lawn clippings in the green bin and smell it after 3-4 days). It's not overtly unpleasant, but it definitely doesn't smell like that cigar. It wasn't a high end cigar, but it smelled pretty good to me.

Is this how it's supposed to be? What has been your experience?

Thanks

1. Usually the jar in the water bath is sealed, condensation should not be an issue.
2. I rarely get any nice smell that I can detect from a maceration, if anything its pretty dull and lifeless. If there is any off or rotten smell though I would be concerned, I never smelt this myself (from an extraction). It just might be a characteristic of the cigar though, so don't throw it out, mix up a sample and steep it a couple of weeks, you might get a pleasant surprise.

 

[boomerdude]

Was the cover on the Mason Jar? I'm surprised your extract didn't explode all over the cooker. If you think about all that steam it will tell you where all that extra liquid came from. The water in the cooker condensed into your PG in the jar. It's probably over-saturated.

Here's how I do a cigar. I use a scalpel or x-acto and slice completely through the wrapper all along the length of the cigar. Then I peel off each layer of leaf. I cut them at least in half pieces and layer one half of the leafs, in order of the peel, into the bottom of the container. Then I crumple the filler into the container and then the other half of the wrapper on top. I heat the PG ( 60 ml for each ounce of tobacco ) to 140-50F and pour it in, covering the tobacco and keep adding as it's soaked up by the tobacco. Once it takes as much PG as it can I cover the container and let it sit on a warmer at 130F for about 1/2 hour. Then into a cool dark space for a month at least Once a week I uncover, stir it up and warm it again for 1/2 hour. I do this every week until I think it's ready.

I only filter the extract once. Cigars, I find, are very difficult to get full flavor if I do too short of an extraction steep or more than one pass through a filter. Most of my cigar extractions come out pretty tasty.

If your going to spend $15-25 on a single cigar, make sure you have a workable method.

I had posted this n the DIY liquid thread but it was suggested this thread might be better...


So, I tried extracting flavor from a cigar for the first time.

Cut up the cigar into thin pieces, poured PG (eyeballed it enough to cover) into the mason jar and cooked in a pressure cooker in low setting for 11 hours. The mason jar was propped up with a base in the pressure cooker, the lid was was screwed only slightly and there was about couple of pints of water in it.

I filtered the lot through a coffee filter and got about 180 ml of flavor liquid.

#1 - Not sure if I am supposed to get 180 ml, cause I didn't put that much PG in it. Is there some water vapor that's condensed in it? Do I need to get rid of the water somehow? It's dark brown in color.

#2 I was hoping for a cigar type aroma or at least some type of sweet natural tobacco smell. This thing does not smell like that at all . The best description I can think of is..some kind of rotten grass smell (if you leave lawn clippings in the green bin and smell it after 3-4 days). It's not overtly unpleasant, but it definitely doesn't smell like that cigar. It wasn't a high end cigar, but it smelled pretty good to me.

Is this how it's supposed to be? What has been your experience?

Thanks

 

[TyrannyUnleashed]

Hey all,

I'm getting ready to jump in head first (after 14 months of vaping…lol) with a few extractions, and had a question.

Has anyone ever tried using a vacuum sealer to remove the air to assist in forcing the solvent into the tobacco?

My thinking is this would allow for more of the natural flavors to be absorbed by the solvent. But at the same time I’m wondering if this would be a problem due to the air being removed from the process. This would be for a cold maceration.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Or if you just wanted to tell me I’m all wet, would be fine also.

Thanks

 

[regal55]

Hey all,

I'm getting ready to jump in head first (after 14 months of vaping…lol) with a few extractions, and had a question.

Has anyone ever tried using a vacuum sealer to remove the air to assist in forcing the solvent into the tobacco?

My thinking is this would allow for more of the natural flavors to be absorbed by the solvent. But at the same time I’m wondering if this would be a problem due to the air being removed from the process. This would be for a cold maceration.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Or if you just wanted to tell me I’m all wet, would be fine also.

Thanks

I don't think the vapor presuure of vg is low enough to make a difference. It may prove useful in keeping moisture from getting soaked into the hydroscopic VG but I don't think that's been much of a problem.

 

[boomerdude]

Hygroscopic VG? Vapor pressure of VG? I need enlightenment here, what in God's name is Hydroscopic VG? Also, I can't imagine what Vapor pressure of VG is, at least in regards to vacuum pressure. Please elaborate.

I don't think the vapor presuure of vg is low enough to make a difference. It may prove useful in keeping moisture from getting soaked into the hydroscopic VG but I don't think that's been much of a problem.

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

Hygroscopic just means the material readily absorbs water, even atmospheric humidity.

Vapor pressure is a bit more complex, it basically is a measure of how easily a material transitions from liquid to gas. If you get down to the nitty gritty of it all you'll have an aneurism.

Maurice

 

[boomerdude]

I thought Hydroscopic meant something like a periscope on a submarine. Hydro - water Scopic - To look or see. I'm familiar with several laws pertaining to gases and liquids like Boyle's Law. A liquid under pressure that is opened to atmospheric pressure changing into it's gaseous state I understand. It's what these two things have to do with extracting using vacuum that throws me.

Hygroscopic just means the material readily absorbs water, even atmospheric humidity.

Vapor pressure is a bit more complex, it basically is a measure of how easily a material transitions from liquid to gas. If you get So an instrument to look into water.down to the nitty gritty of it all you'll have an aneurism.

Maurice

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

I'm not sure why PG being hygroscopic would matter much as a good vacuum is essentially a closed environment and not subject to atmospheric humidity, even a vacuum we could create at home is close enough for what we do.

I'm not sure how vapor pressure becomes a factor either in a vacuum filtration system but I'm not certain of what PG will do in a vacuum either.

Maurice

 

[TyrannyUnleashed]

Sorry, I didn't mean to get this thread derailed with my question. I will have to sort through the responses to better understand if that would work or not. But it almost sounds like maybe I should double the pipe and cigar tobacco I was planning on using. This would allow me to try it both ways at the same time. Once I get this going (shooting for early July to start), I can report back on findings. Also I will be using PG for the base of the extraction. I don't want to hassle with the thicker VG at this time, as I haven't determined what method of filtering I'll be able to use yet.

Thanks to everyone that responded.

 

[Bunnykiller]

interesting concept with the vacuum bag idea, pull out the air and let the atmosphere apply 14.7 psi to the bag and force the VG/PG into the tobacco
since it would be in a bag and not in a "hard" container, the "boiling point" of the VG/PG wont occur.

it is neat tho to see water "boil" at 65F in a vacuum chamber

 

[regal55]

I'm not sure why PG being hygroscopic would matter much as a good vacuum is essentially a closed environment and not subject to atmospheric humidity, even a vacuum we could create at home is close enough for what we do.

I'm not sure how vapor pressure becomes a factor either in a vacuum filtration system but I'm not certain of what PG will do in a vacuum either.

Maurice

A vacuum is used to boil off a solvent. Why would you want to do that in an extraction? Just use more tobacco, same end result. You are in no danger of over saturating the PG.

 

[boomerdude]

You know this doesn't have to be complicated. An ounce of tobacco will take 80 mls of pg on average and you should get 60-70 mls of concentrate from that. You can get a quality juice that taste just as good or in many cases better than vendor bought juice. There's a NET being sold for $1.00 per ml that you can make yourself for pennies and it will be identical.

Hot or cold whichever method you choose will turn out fine, and you can filter through a coffee filter or cotton in a syringe. Filter it as many times as you think is enough. Start at 20% ratio of concentrate to base and take it from there.

Sorry, I didn't mean to get this thread derailed with my question. I will have to sort through the responses to better understand if that would work or not. But it almost sounds like maybe I should double the pipe and cigar tobacco I was planning on using. This would allow me to try it both ways at the same time. Once I get this going (shooting for early July to start), I can report back on findings. Also I will be using PG for the base of the extraction. I don't want to hassle with the thicker VG at this time, as I haven't determined what method of filtering I'll be able to use yet.

Thanks to everyone that responded.