PLEASE stop recommending RBAs and RDAs to beginners in the Newbie Forum

[edyle]

I believe that if people ask they are ready to try it, I don't see people recommending rbas to others asking questions on clearos.
I started asking when I thought I wanted an upgrade, and I got the answers I needed, if instead of those answers people told me just to stick with what I had probably I would never got what I have now.

edit: sorry I just saw a thread from a guy that was asking advice about evods and another guy told hib about rdas and coils etc.. that is bad really

Maybe you haven't seen people recommending rbas and rdas and subohming to others who are asking questions - i'll drop the "on clearos" part because new members usually ask in generalities and don't know which way they will head.....

But I have. (I have seen people RECOMMENDING rbas rdas and subohming in the NEW MEMBERS forum).
That to me doesn't help things.


It suffices for new members to BE AWARE of the possibilities, but

 

[SkoOtz.DC]

I don't think I have ever suggested a RBA/rda or mech mod to anyone new who has not asked about it first. If they do ask I do what I can to educate and help them stay safe.

I think you said it right there. I completely agree however that they shouldn't be recommended to a person that hasn't requested the information specifically. Recommending sub-ohm coils to anyone without a big flashing warning sign I think is truly irresponsible.

I am a very inexperienced vaper compared to 99+% of you. I had a couple weeks with a HALO and some gas station disposables years before. But i came on here and I read and asked questions for three days, I watched every riptripper and pbusardo video on building coils and wicks, several time hehe.

Then I bucked up and ordered a Provari, an rsst and the kayfun. While they were being shipped I asked a few more questions and they, like the last, were quickly answered. Hehe, often by Ryedan. Today, 5 days after joining the ECF, I'm sitting here writing this, puffing on a 1.6 microcoil/org cotton kayfun which i built myself having a great time. It is entirely thanks to the amazing resources available in the new members forum.


So please, don't rule it out.

Edited: formatting

 

[Myrany]

It's about appropriateness, finding out what someone is capable of. Asking questions and actually listening to the answers. Too often someone posts telling people they have $50 and severe arthritis and people jump in to recommend a Provari and an RBA to build coils on.

Bravo this is it exactly.

My story
On the advice of friends on another forum (not ecig related) I started with an EGO-C tank system. Well it got me off the smokes but the problems with the system were driving me insane within a week. Leaking, burned atomizers giving me a 4 day sinus headache you name it. The 2 1000 mah batteries that came with it were solid though and working well I badly needed a better topper. So I picked up a pair of CE5 Redux from the same place I got my starter kit. AH HA!!!! Vaping happily but really worried about head costs long run.

Saw a video by PBusardo on the Vivi nova in which he rebuilt the head. Took a good look at the vivi head and then took a good look at the CE5 head. EUREKA! Nearly identical.

Meanwhile I had found ECF so I started asking questions. Ohms law was never an issue for me as I have a heavy math/science background. What I needed was a little more specific. I needed a device to read the ohms (bought a vamo) and I needed info on batterys. Because what my friends on the other forum were telling me wasn't matching what people on ECF were saying. After some running around in circles and feeling my head was going to explode baditude came to my rescue on the batterys.

At 3 weeks into vaping I was happily rebuilding the heads for my clearos. At 6 weeks in I was rebuilding RDA's. At 8 weeks in it was AGA-T2.

Now I was able to do that because I did the homework and had some comfort level with working with electricity and tiny tiny things. At the same time it was the journey there that made me successful.

Every new person comes in with their own knowledge and comfort level. Ask some questions find out what those are, then make recommendations.

These B&Ms that are sending out newbies with no knowledge and a .4 ohm dual coil on a mech are in my book horribly irresponsible and a disaster waiting to happen. The key is education.

 

[edyle]

i think telling everyone they're too stupid to figure it out and creating nanny state rules on a public forum to coincide with that idea is the issue. it's the thread title in a nutshell.

EDIT: maybe i'm missing something though. i don't frequent the newbie forum.

Yes, I think a few people are missing the POINT about the NEWBIE FORUM.

 

[Baditude]

a short isn't going to blow your head off

A bad battery, however, will.

Uhm , no it won't. If were going to be trying to get good information out there, can we please stop telling people that batteries are going to blow their heads off. Batteries will go into thermal runaway and start venting before an explosion occurs. At that an explosion would be very rare in any case. I see this mentioned several times on this forum and it does not happen like that. I don't completely disagree that rda's can be unsafe but I have no issue with suggesting them as they were to me when I first started. I was also informed about batteries and the dangers (real and mythical) of them. Thanks for YOUR input.

Sorry, I was barely 2 weeks into my first mechanical mod when a supposively safe "protected" battery "blew up in flames".



Above is that battery. It vented rather violently in a pants pocket and ruined the pants, and would have started a fire in the building if I had not found it when I did. I was lucky that I wasn't wearing the pants when this occured. Lithium ion ICR batteries are a voltatile (as in FLAMABLE) chemistry. They vent flames and gas when they go into thermal runaway. If a mod doesn't have ventilation holes to release the gas buildup, the mod literally becomes a pipe bomb.

Although admittedly rare (thank goodness for that), the batteries that we use in our mods can burst into flames or explode. It won't seem so rare should it happen to you.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/new-members-forum/472990-hi-all-shaken-up-provari-aw-18490-battery-owner.html

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/apv-discussion/427656-please-read.html

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/vamo/478891-warning-do-not-use-charger-batteries-come-vamo-18350-kit-pics.html

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/new-members-information/190146-pictures-serious-battery-failure-imr-18650-a.html

 

[doctadrea]

Vaping a clearo on an ego for 5 years won't make me any more or less skilled / qualified / inclined to rebuild coils than someone who just started vaping yesterday.

 

[SkoOtz.DC]

Vaping a clearo on an ego for 5 years won't make me any more or less skilled / qualified / inclined to rebuild coils than someone who just started vaping yesterday.

Yes, however i think the people who are against recommending RBA/RDA in general in the NMF would probably say that there are steps you should take even with 5 years of experience before going from an clearo/ego setup to building your own coils. Twist, VV, Protank who knows. I however disagree and think its all in the persons will and desire to learn more about vaping.

EDIT:

I wanted to add to this post because after rereading it I left something out that i felt was important. I really like the motives behind this discussion. I have seen very few posts regarding the annoyance of having to answer the simple first build questions or going over the basics again and again in NMF. The majority of the comments are about people pushing beyond their depths and endangering themselves and how that can be avoided. That is truly awesome, and coming from someone who would be pushing beyond his depths without the sound advice of this community I am very very grateful.

 

[LEE9476]

That's my point - if someone has been posting for a while, shows they know the basics, have left the newbie forum and started digging into the others, and show/have a willingness to listen and read up on what they're doing, great - some of us have a better grasp of tools and making stuff, so it's not hard. Others, however, many of whom don't know even what an ohm is, it's a disaster waiting to happen - and being dissatisfied with the product, because they can't get it to work right.

Okay, it's analogy time. Suppose someone posts "Hey, I'd like to learn how to ride a motorcycle!". Not knowing anything about them, would you:

A. Recommend a motorcycling school, and a smaller cc bike to learn with

or

B. a 1300cc Harley custom with all the options, delivered to their door with no safety or handling instructions?

This. Is the perfect analogy. All too often I see beginners asking if something like a Yamaha R1 is a good bike to learn on. While yes, you an learn to ride, and ride safely, most of the time that rider ends up getting scraped off the road after a simple mistake that high sided them to the moon and back. (Kind of a sore subject)

Back to the topic at hand, I think the issue here is communication and having experienced vapers actually listen to the questions new members post and answer them appropriately. Someone may come into the new members forum after having vaped for years with an RDA/RBA and be well aware of the safety concerns and practices. In this case I doubt most would mind answering more advanced questions and recommending advanced gear. It might, however, be within reason to ask that poster to wait until they can post in other sections of this forum more suited to those kind of of questions.

And the OP's thread here is on recommending RDA/RBA's to BEGINNERS, ie, somebody who has little to no experience with any kind of vaping device. This, may be wrong of us to do. We can inform them all we like of battery safety and multimeter use and ohms law, but with a new potential vaper, it would be much more appropriate to recommend a "fill and vape" style device such as an ego and carto just so they can get their feet wet and experience vaping for themselves before deciding what route they want to take. I'm sure most of us have asked ourselves why we didn't go with ...insert favorite device here... from the beginning, but we also have to ask ourselves if we would have stuck with vaping if we had been forced to learn to wrap coils, and wick coils properly, and use a multimeter, and read up on ohms law, etc... when lighting up a cigarette or packing a lip is much more hassle free.

 

[Zealous]

Sorry, I was barely 2 weeks into my first mechanical mod when a supposively safe "protected" battery "blew up in flames".

Wow! That's a scary way to learn about a battery. Glad it didn't turn out as bad as it could have.

Maybe you haven't seen people recommending rbas and rdas and subohming to others who are asking questions - i'll drop the "on clearos" part because new members usually ask in generalities and don't know which way they will head.....

But I have. (I have seen people RECOMMENDING rbas rdas and subohming in the NEW MEMBERS forum).
That to me doesn't help things.

I just saw someone tonight recommending a RBA & mechanical to someone who hadn't been vaping long enough to understand their inferno battery fully yet. Yea, people do do it & it's annoying.

 

[edyle]

I have seen too many scary posts myself of beginners asking questions which to my mind, if they have to ask the question they are asking, then they're playing with stuff they really ought not to be playing with; only in the last week somebody was diddling around with something like 0.3 ohms and after some back and forth the got to realise they were doing something potentially dangerous and hadn't known that they were playing with something dangerous; so how did they end up there in the first place...


that's the point of the OP in my mind.

There was also a post earlier today about somebody going into a b&m store and walking out with a 0.3 ohm build and not knowing till they happened to ask a friend about a problem they were having with it.


I think when it comes to the New Members forum, much like what happens in reputable companies, there needs to be a conciousness of "SAFETY FIRST".


And by the way, it's not about rules, laws, or nanny state, it's more like Etiquette

 

[Schwiggiddy]

I work at a B&M in Kentucky, and many of my customers, when they are first getting started, have no interest in even replacing attys in clearos, much less RBAs. Evod 900 or Inno 1100 are our best sellers, with disposable clearos.
I definitely see that some veteran vapers like to talk over people's heads and assume an air of superiority when talking to newbies. Just like any other community I have seen--in online forums, gaming, cars and automotive, RC, guns--basically any hobby with a learning curve where guys (it's almost always the guys) can show off their specialized knowledge.

 

[Tinkiegrrl]

I am scientifically and mathematically inclined. I knew a big about ohms law before vaping, that said, I didn't announce that here when I started but I did get recommendations for a couple of rebuildables from beginning. I just learned what coils my blister pack clearo took, nevermjnd rebuilding coils. I knew enough to know I didn't know enough thankfully. There is that point though where a person just knows too little to know they have a lot to learn before that. I think the best thing that could happen isn't necessarily a ban on discussion RBA'S to new forum member, but to read and get a grasp on that persons technical know how first. I've seen rebuildables recommended to those who don't even know what a clearo IS.

 

[ConradM]

anybody can learn, just because they are new doesn't mean they are ......ed.

a short isn't going to blow your head off

straddling on the border of the fine agree/disagree line, i'm going to have to step a toe on the disagree side.

simply because it really depends on the person.

one of my original (my starter kit) atomizers was an igo-l. i'm very glad it was something i started with put me ahead of the curve and helped me decide what direction i want to go a few times. though, i also started with a viv-nova and a protank thanks to the same advice that sent me to the igo-l.

though, i do agree that without someone seeming to already be heading in that direction or having displayed a decent grasp of the concept or willingness to learn prior to blind experimentation, it would be best to err on the side of caution.

As a relative beginner myself, I would like to add that if my first research into vaping had directed me in that direction I would still be smoking. Not only is that stuff confusing & intimidating, there are actually some of us that just aren't interested! If I had been given the impression that I needed to understand ohms law (?) in order to make the switch, I would have stopped right there.

I agree with all of this. It's not rocket science and people make it seem way more complicated than it is. Granted, it's all up to a persons aptitude and it's on them to know if they can safely build on RBAs and RDAs.

I pretty much had mechs and RBA's figured out within a few days of getting my first clearo and I had my first working build within an hour of buying an RBA.

 

[Myrany]

Yes, however i think the people who are against recommending RBA/RDA in general in the NMF would probably say that there are steps you should take even with 5 years of experience before going from an clearo/ego setup to building your own coils. Twist, VV, Protank who knows. I however disagree and think its all in the persons will and desire to learn more about vaping.

Yes there is a step anyone should go through between ego/clearo and mech rda. That step is getting educated about batteries and ohms law. I don't care if someone is vaping 5 days or 5 years if they don't do the homework they are taking risks.

 

[Tinkiegrrl]

I agree with all of this. It's not rocket science and people make it seem way more complicated than it is. Granted, it's all up to a persons aptitude and it's on them to know if they can safely build on RBAs and RDAs.

I pretty much had mechs and RBA's figured out within a few days of getting my first clearo and I had my first working build within an hour of buying an RBA.

I get it, I do. I get your point. However, I think there are many, many more people out there who shouldn't go to that level for various reasons, and you can often tell who they are in the newbie section. I just saw a video of some kid rigging a 9 volt device together for himself, to vape a carto with. He is an example of knowing enough to be blind about what he doesn't know. What did he say.... "It's not safe, but it's healthy for you". While they aren't necessarily our responsibility, I just think its wise for our community in general to pay more attention to who we are pointing where.

 

[SkoOtz.DC]

crazy home made ecig running at 9 volts - YouTube

I just posted this in a thread in general...but it applies to this topic too...

ahahahaha, ohhh thank you for that. I needed a good laugh. Shall we start a pool for how long he lasts?

 

[Tinkiegrrl]

ahahahaha, ohhh thank you for that. I needed a good laugh. Shall we start a pool for how long he lasts?

Yep. That's the one I saw. I don't get what the point is. Does he want to vape, or does he want to smoke burned polyfill? And that's the BEST case scenario of what can happen.

 

[SkoOtz.DC]

Yes there is a step anyone should go through between ego/clearo and mech rda. That step is getting educated about batteries and ohms law. I don't care if someone is vaping 5 days or 5 years if they don't do the homework they are taking risks.

I agree wholeheartedly..., I say again WHOLEHEARTEDLY. My comment was referring to the act of acquiring and using simpler or lesser devices, by that all I mean is that acquiring an understanding of ohms law and battery safety does not require in any way the purchase of, and experimentation with an intermediate PV. Its all in the user and the research.

Does it do any harm? None that I can see. Unless they get fed up with a poor experience and go back to cigarettes, but much can be done before that happens (hopefully). As has been stated, everyone learns at their own speed. The responsible thing to do is have an understanding of where the person is on there journey before giving them advice. This isnt building a rocket, or riding a motorcycle. Its swimming, there are risks, but EVERYONE can do it. Where i grew up if you could tread water for a couple minutes you could go off the highdive. Not everyone wants to, not everyone has to, but you shouldnt hold back the opportunity. Just make sure they can tread water before you urge them up the ladder.

edit: and of course the first time i dont quicksave alt-tabbing out of skyrim to check the boards my game crashes. Oh the perils of being addicted to ECF.

 

[Ryedan]

I definitely see that some veteran vapers like to talk over people's heads and assume an air of superiority when talking to newbies. Just like any other community I have seen--in online forums, gaming, cars and automotive, RC, guns--basically any hobby with a learning curve where guys (it's almost always the guys) can show off their specialized knowledge.

I see that very rarely here. It may seem like it sometimes, but you need to use the words that apply when communicating things. It is good to spell out acronyms sometimes, but it's easy to forget that people don't always know them. It's also very easy to Google them.

 

[Ryedan]

Yep. That's the one I saw. I don't get what the point is. Does he want to vape, or does he want to smoke burned polyfill? And that's the BEST case scenario of what can happen.

I think he want to win a Darwin award but doesn't know it