pneumonia

[redbucket]

Just thought I'd let folks know. My generally very intelligent coworker told me today that he heard e-cigs cause pneumonia. He heard it from another coworker. To be fair to him, he was like "I didn't research it or anything, it doesn't effect me so I didn't much care, I just thought you might want to know." The coworker he heard it from is a smoker. I searched it on google news. Seems like some doctors diagnosed a woman with pneumonia and attributed it to her e-cig a year ago. There's a thread about pneumonia and e-cigs on this forum but it is closed, or I'd post this there.

Seems this rumor is making the rounds. Just thought folks should know.

 

[Carmigirl]

I did read somewhere that vg is the cause of it in rare cases. I asked my dr about it and he agreed its possible especially with weak lungs

 

[WarHawk-AVG]

Funny, because PG (per the EPA) sanitizes the air (also the addendum says if used in high quantities could cause other birth related issues)

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...9057-propylene-glycol-knowing-1-2-battle.html

 

[The Vagabond]

people that susceptible to getting pneumonia wouldn't be able to take a shower! high humidity would be the real issue.... as such they probably should curtain all activities

 

[Anjaffm]

That rumor is absolute horse manure. - And if the media (or whatever) bring it up again, that will not make it any more believable.

There is a "chemical pneumonia" that people can get from inhaling oils. "Fire eaters" who work at fire shows are susceptible to that ailment, from accidentally breathing in the stuff that they use to make the flames.

However , e-liquids do not - repeat: not - contain oils. PG and VG are alcohols. They may feel like oil when you rub them between your fingers, but they are not oils. There is absolutely no danger of getting "chemical pneumonia" from vaping commercially sold e-liquids.

Caution:
It is good to know the fact about oils causing "chemical pneumonia" when inhaled.
One should never ever use anything dissolved in oil for vaping. Never ever.
(this is one of the first things people point out in the German vapers forum when a new vaper is interested in mixing their own liquids).

Coming back to that rumor:
The smoke of a tobacco cigarette contains approx 2000 substances, 40 of which are said to cause cancer.
The vapor of an e-liquid contains approx 5 substances, none of which are said to causes cancer.
- All these 5 substances are also present in tobacco cigarettes. But in tobacco cigarettes, you burn them and inhale their smoke.
Now, which kind of nicotine delivery would be more likely to cause an illness of the breathing organs?

- Those rumors are horse manure. Rat droppings. FUD, and nothing else.

...
Sorry if I talk funny. I have the knowledge in German. And did my best to say it in English.

 

[WarHawk-AVG]

That rumor is absolute horse manure. - And if the media (or whatever) bring it up again, that will not make it any more believable.

There is a "chemical pneumonia" that people can get from inhaling oils. "Fire eaters" who work at fire shows are susceptible to that ailment, from accidentally breathing in the stuff that they use to make the flames.

However , e-liquids do not - repeat: not - contain oils. PG and VG are alcohols. They may feel like oil when you rub them between your fingers, but they are not oils. There is absolutely no danger of getting "chemical pneumonia" from vaping commercially sold e-liquids.

Caution:
It is good to know the fact about oils causing "chemical pneumonia" when inhaled.
One should never ever use anything dissolved in oil for vaping. Never ever.
(this is one of the first things people point out in the German vapers forum when a new vaper is interested in mixing their own liquids).

Coming back to that rumor:
The smoke of a tobacco cigarette contains approx 2000 substances, 40 of which are said to cause cancer.
The vapor of an e-liquid contains approx 5 substances, none of which are said to causes cancer.
- All these 5 substances are also present in tobacco cigarettes. But in tobacco cigarettes, you burn them and inhale their smoke.
Now, which kind of nicotine delivery would be more likely to cause an illness of the breathing organs?

- Those rumors are horse manure. Rat droppings. FUD, and nothing else.

...
Sorry if I talk funny. I have the knowledge in German. And did my best to say it in English.

The 2000 chemicals are a moot point....the 3 BIG ones are the ones people "know" are there...but really don't know by how much!

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/general-e-liquid-discussion/465485-its-not-nicotine.html

 

[Anjaffm]

@WarHawk:

The 2000 chemicals are a moot point....the 3 BIG ones are the ones people "know" are there...but really don't know by how much!

not quite. In Europe, the ANTZ are grasping at straws.

5 substances:
PG is safe.. VG is safe... no proof that nicotine, used as intended, causes any ill effects (with some studies now emerging that actually point out benefits of nicotine use)... destilled water: even the ANTZ are not stupid enough to mention THAT ... leaves No 5: the flavoring.

Whoopeeee... let's attack the flavoring then..... and spread a bunch of FUD about e.g. strawberry flavor .. crying about alleged ill effects of inhaling food flavoring .. "Vanilla gonna killya" or crap like that could just be the next war cry ...
In Europe, they are grasping at straws, and no lie will be too silly for them to use.

Therefore, I think it is important to point out that - while PG, VG, destilled water and nicotine are absolutely safe to use for vaping, as intended, by adults - it is important to use only food flavoring that is safe for vaping. Also for the safety of the vapers themselves.

Example:
The Italian flavor manufacturer Flavor Art makes food flavors. For food. Many of those are safe for vaping, and are sold as safe for vaping. Some of their flavors, however, contain oil. Those oil-containing flavors are not safe for vaping - and the company clearly states that on their homepage. For each of those flavors.

Ok.. this is going OT... but when the subject "pneumonia" is mentioned, I think it is important to take the opportunity to point out:

Do not - repeat not - ever use an oil-based flavor for vaping. Stick to the flavorings that are sold for vaping. For your own safety.

And if it takes some horse manure rumor to present that opportunity to give / repeat this information, so be it

.........
and thank you very much for the link!

 

[Ryedan]

That rumor is absolute horse manure. - And if the media (or whatever) bring it up again, that will not make it any more believable.

Sorry if I talk funny. I have the knowledge in German. And did my best to say it in English.

That's what I thought too Anjaffm.

I have a question. Do you know what would happen if a juice had bacteria in it? I know this is unlikely as both PG and VG have antibacterial properties. If there was a problem with a juice would anything alive be destroyed by the heat of atomizing or would it survive?

And your English is just fine. And much better than my German

 

[para-frame]

Tell him to look up aspiration pneumonia, one potental case of pneumonia from Ecigs vs. thousands of cases a year.

 

[Ryedan]

I have a question. Do you know what would happen if a juice had bacteria in it? I know this is unlikely as both PG and VG have antibacterial properties. If there was a problem with a juice would anything alive be destroyed by the heat of atomizing or would it survive?

Well, I'm going to continue to assume that bacteria is not an issue. I know I've vaped juice that was about a year old and have not had any problems with it.

 

[Anjaffm]

@Ryedan:

thank you very much for the lovely compliment!

I have a question. Do you know what would happen if a juice had bacteria in it? I know this is unlikely as both PG and VG have antibacterial properties. If there was a problem with a juice would anything alive be destroyed by the heat of atomizing or would it survive?

I am sorry, I do not know.
However, I am certain that this does not happen often.

In the German vapers forum, there is an old, old thread, from 2009 or so, showing a picture of a liquid - under a microscope - that actually had bacteria in it. - The liquid itself was cloudy. That is how the person in question discovered that there was something wrong with it and asked somebody to check it under a microscope. Liquids are usually clear - so this cloudy liquid stood out like a sore thumb. -

There has been no more mention of any such problem ever since.
And the forum has several thousand members (including some.. uhm.. weird ones.. who love to attempt to spread some FUD with all kinds of .. uhm.. interesting... claims ... ).

That thread about the contaminated liquid is periodically brought up again, to remind people to please work cleanly when mixing liquids. ("Work cleanly" like when you prepare food. Nobody would prepare a salad with dirty hands or cut food on a dirty table, then why mix liquids with dirty hands and dirty utensils?).

As to bacteria, I would say:
- they would have to get into the liquid (how?)
and
- they certainly cannot breed /multiply in it. (let me look up the link at home, I do not have it available here)

About the heat of the coil killing possible bacteria or not, I really cannot say. That subject has never come up in anything that I have read.

........
edit:

Well, I'm going to continue to assume that bacteria is not an issue. I know I've vaped juice that was about a year old and have not had any problems with it.

Same here.
Bacteria has never been mentioned as an issue in the German vapers forums - except for that one thread that I mentioned - all knowledgeable people say "work cleanly when mixing liquids" and that it is enough to rinse the mixing utensils with hot water.

 

[Ryedan]

In the German vapers forum, there is an old, old thread, from 2009 or so, showing a picture of a liquid - under a microscope - that actually had bacteria in it. - The liquid itself was cloudy. That is how the person in question discovered that there was something wrong with it and asked somebody to check it under a microscope. Liquids are usually clear - so this cloudy liquid stood out like a sore thumb. -

There has been no more mention of any such problem ever since.
And the forum has several thousand members (including some.. uhm.. weird ones.. who love to attempt to spread some FUD with all kinds of .. uhm.. interesting... claims ... ).

You're welcome Anjaffm.

Thanks for the info. I had not ever heard of this happening before and ECF has had 162,000 members since it started. I have though wondered if it could. One case in millions of bottles of juice shows how unlikely it is