Trying out a 3 strand parallel 26 gauge 3mm coil. 0.42 ohms at 60W is pretty nice.
- Status
M3 M4 M5 M6 M8 SOCKET SET GRUB SCREW PLAIN CUP POINT A2 STAINLESS STEEL DIN916 | eBay
if the link doesnt give you the size they are M3 x 3mm
Well for me it's not it's not really true and I'll just state my own logic on it. As far as the knowledge I have, any metal using for vaping will have an influence on our body, the degree yes can vary. It might very well be true that Ti and SS are a safer option than the current alloys but just a good hunch, as good as it could be, does not make the others obsolete for me. For me the biggest reason to not be worried about nichrome or kanthal is that I don't have a source where I can see how much more safe is Ti compared to Nichrome. But I am sure the current main wires are safer than using iron wire for example which is much more susceptible to oxidation. And there are much worse examples than just iron. Without some numbers that relate to our application to compare one can only have an estimation based on what one can read about the properties of each material individually. And I admit I haven't went to research in the metals, I leave it to people that are educated in this way, which I hope there was at least more than one of these persons that has looked into nichrome and kanthal all these years we have been using them and as long as they didn't draw attention, with concrete data, to any serious health risks it's ok for me.
I'm sure there will be ways to handle SS loony. And furthermore no one is forcing us to use any of these wires. But I have two questions for you? Where you a cigarette smoker before starting vaping? if yes good for you and thus my second question, would you go back to smoking if Ti was the only wire you can use in e-cigs? Knowing that it's even safer for your health than the wire you use now?
you can vape unoxidised wire but you can only use spaced coils, ive used everything including ss & ti which was great, not sure if it was just me but n80 was terrible unoxidised
maybe the nichrome was trying to oxidise as i was vaping it, thats how she tasted, i wont be rushing to do her again
maybe the nichrome was trying to oxidise as i was vaping it, thats how she tasted, i wont be rushing to do her again
Yes, I am an ex-smoker. No I would not go back to smoking if Ti was the only wire I could use. But after concurring my addiction to smoking cigarettes I am certainly more health conscious now and I don't want to just simply say "well its still better than smoking" and use one wire when another wire can still prove to be even more safer. It's about the oxidation for me. Even now, I'm still vaping on brown "rusty" looking kanthal/nichrome fused claptons because I love the flavor. But, I still can't help but think, damn these coils do look kind of nasty, what if I'm inhaling some metal particulates or some other harmful byproduct because I dry burned these coils multiple times or because this metal is not safe to be in direct contact with my e liquid all day every single day. I haven't found any concrete data yet either but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I think most of us are still so happy that we have found a much healthier alternative to smoking that we are scared to look into the dangers of the way we vape right now. I read an article today linked from tasteyourjuice.com of some doctor that wrote about dry burning being a lot more dangerous because you change the condition of the wire and its outer layer or something. I'm definitely no expert, but I dry burn these fused claptons and twisted coils until they change colors and when I clean and re-wick them they appear to me as "rusted" after just a couple weeks. But everyone on here and everywhere else I've looked says "no its fine, that's how my coils look." Even Squidoode in one of his Youtube vids, I forget which one, when showing a coil says "yeah I know its rusty, I've been using it for weeks" So if this is corrosion and rust on our coils, how can it be acceptable healthwise to soak in our liquids and inhale them??
Yeah I tried Kanthal unoxidised/non-dry-burned and it tasted like empty freakin tasteless vapor. How could I ever get used to this lack of flavor again after vaping on oxidized fused claptons for months??
Just cus someone else vapes on a rusty coil isnt a good enuff reason lol
I wouldnt cus i like to make coils so they get changed Very often, when i first started out rebuilding i was making a new coil every hour and replacing the one i had
everyone was asking me is that what you have to do all the time with they ecigs, "well! yeah!"Its so cheap to make a coil why wouldnt you change em and gain the extra experience at the same time?
jj i dont really understand why you cant make a normal spaced coil taste as great as your fused clapton, i cant stick to one set coil as i get bored of it for some reason, i have to do a rotation on pretty much every coil going and they all taste good lol fresh coil fresh wick all is good, have you ever tried an unoxidised coil? it tastes like a fresh coil and wick for a long long time plus you wouldnt get that rusting
have look here >> Dont Dry Burn Your Kanthal | E-Cigarette Forumedit: to me i see a rusty coil as a coil that is breaking down, im no expert but i bet that it cant be good for you
Last edited:
Just cus someone else vapes on a rusty coil isnt a good enuff reason lol
I wouldnt cus i like to make coils so they get changed Very often, when i first started out rebuilding i was making a new coil every hour and replacing the one i had
Its so cheap to make a coil why wouldnt you change em and gain the extra experience at the same time?
I know but I wasn't sure if it was really rusted or not or if it that was just what it was supposed to look like "used". I posted a pic here on this thread a think a few weeks ago of it and not one person said that I should throw it out. And I think I do change my coils pretty often. Even though I mostly build claptons in my rtas and fused claptons in my rdas, I still manage to put a new build in every 2 weeks. I know people that have used the same fused claptons for more than a month and even Twisted Messes and many others says they'll last for months with maintenance. I do the whole dry-burn until glowing hot then run under cold water to clean them and they look remarkably better each time I do this clean/re-wick process, but many times just after 1 week, all my fused claptons appear that brownish crusty color after dry-burning/cold rinsing.
jj i dont really understand why you cant make a normal spaced coil taste as great as your fused clapton, i cant stick to one set coil as i get bored of it for some reason, i have to do a rotation on pretty much every coil going and they all taste good lol fresh coil fresh wick all is good, have you ever tried an unoxidised coil? it tastes like a fresh coil and wick for a long long time plus you wouldnt get that rusting
I understand if I were to believe and attempt to understand "coil flavor science" and Twisted Messes' coil wicking properties effect on vapor flavor and density. But yeah, I have a few juices that I have rotated as ADVs for months and know exactly how good they can taste and yes, I tried an unoxidized 26g kanthal spaced build in my rta, and an unoxidized 22g kanthal spaced build in my rda just yesterday and had two of the same exact rtas and rdas with claptons and fused claptons respectively in them. The flavor drop on the spaced simple coils was just unacceptable. It felt like vaping thin air with a hint of my favorite juices, like those flavored waters that have the most delicate hints of fruits or whatever in them. It just made me mad. I want to be the healthiest vaper I can be, but there's got to be a way I can get good flavor without the oxidized metal risk. I mean, would I eventually just get used to the spaced coil flavorless vape and like it after a while???
edit: to me i see a rusty coil as a coil that is breaking down, im no expert but i bet that it cant be good for you
Ok, first of all Nichrome doesn't rust. Only Iron does. Nichrome is made of nickel and chrome. And the oxide on kanthal is not rust, at least as far as some of the users established on the surface, it's Al2O3, alumina. You can see that in the graphs here Coil under electron microscope | E-Cigarette Forum
The doctor you were reading about is one of two or three specialists we have in the industry that try their best to look at the dangers in vaping and you can contact him and ask of few question or directions where you can find out what he knows about kanthal and nichrome dry burning effects. His team's web-site. I will just say that I believe that if dry burning the wires was the most dangerous practice for the e-cigs his team will be all over that. Right now for example they are working on diacetyl and acetylpropionyl because they believe it's more urgent. It's sad that we have so few specialists but even more sad it that having so many users and so few researchers it kind of indicates how far our concerns as consumers actually go about our health and vaping. But there you go, sometimes the truth is like that. If you want progress in harm reduction do what you can to support researchers, because that's the only way you will get it.
JJ, I am sending you by pm a link to a recent interview with Dr. Farsolinos. It'll give you a better perspective on health concerns. For anybody that is also interested it's the playback with Dr.F on RY4 radio, from 22/05/2014. I won't link it here because I don't know anymore if I break rules or not when linking stuff from outside.
Ill just finish by pointing out that Ti will oxide also when dry burning and the effects of this procedure will have to be tested as well. So don't think that when Ti will show on paper it's better that kanthal you will be safe in dry burning it. I understand exactly your lack of incentive to not oxidize your builds JJ but until something better comes along to replace our current materials and give us better flavor, these are your only options as I see.
Last edited:
I agree with the research thing: that there are so few researchers and it really does show how little concern we have as vapers. I understand that rust only technically happens with iron, i meant oxidation in general, sorry. So what do you think about how people say the kanthal alumina protects the outside of the wire?
I think my major problem is that I'm used to the flavor of advanced books now. I have no "standard" builds in any of my attys. But there's no way, that I know, you can build a clapton, fused clapton, or even a twisted build without having hot spots that you have to work out by dry burning to see where they are. The only time I didn't think I had a hot spot was with that spaced fused clapton I mentioned but I have yet to try it again.
I haven't listened to Dr. Farsalino's audio yet but I read about every article on that site including the one about dry burning before I posted here.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I never modified the shape of the wire in any way to make my coils. Always used it as it was, straight from the spool. Only once I think I made a twisted coil, I don't remember what for. But I don't see how a spaced clapton with twisted core that I mentioned earlier might not work. Twisting is fine for hot spots and spacing the wire over the twisted core should be fine too I suppose. It worked for a single core clapton for Riptrippers in, I think, his last nickel build on the Dna200. But ok, I never tried so until then I just note your experience. When I do, I'll update you if it worked or not and see from there if there's something else to be done if it doesn't.
As far as my opinion, no oxide is safe for vaping but this discussion exceeds my arguing ability. What I need before anything is to find out what risks am I subject to when I use the wire I have now exactly how it arrived to me for vaping. It makes sense to not dry burn them because that just raises more questions so I choose to wait.
Please don't trust riptrippers lol. If you notice no real "builder" (twisted messes, wiretheory, ohmboyoc, squidoode) have made any complex builds with nickel. If you notice in his video he started by pinching and dry burning nickel which even now as far as we know is a big no no to dry burn nickel, and then halfway through his video he cut to just using a spaced clapton and said "or you can do it like this!" But even that way i doubt it works without extreme hot spots. I'll give you an idea of why I don't think even spaced claptons will work with something I finally can lend an experienced opinion to...
When you wrap twisted wire, there are naturally hot spots. Even the tightest, most uniform, simple, and clean twisted wire I've made had varying hot spots throughout the coil. The same is the case with claptons but multiplied. The problem is, even though you can take meticulous care to twist and wrap your twisted/clapton wire perfectly and uniform, once you start wrapping that thing around your screwdriver or drill bit, you unavoidably "compress" the wires at certain points. And then comes the fiddling and pushing to get the coil positioned in your atomizer. This compresses the wires together in even more points. When you start dealing with multiple wires in parallel, everything gets sticky. Any point where two or more of those wires are compressed tighter than other points throughout the length of the coil, the current will pass through easier because it creates a point of least resistance. And there you have a hot spot.
I fear even in a spaced fused clapton, there will be points like at the bends of the wraps or corners of the coils where you would have to push the coil towards the center of the atty to position it, where two or more of the wire wraps will be pressed together and will create a hot spot. And considering the usual low resistance of complex builds and the endurance of thin wires like 36 gauge used in claptons, these hot spots will be hot enough to snap while vaping.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sure, your explanation is much better than Riptrippers and it does mirror to discussions on the tensioned microcoil thread. As far as for the hot spots I know from one research paper( I can look it up) that hot spots are present at the smallest level and happen even between wick and wire and that it's practically impossible to completely avoid them. So I don't know, time will tell what works and what not I guess. However to me it's obvious that we have long reached the limits and use of the current materials we use in our builds and I'm frustrated why there are so few alternatives sought. Ceramic coils is the only actually applicable idea 'outside the box' I have ever seen now that I come to think of it. Genesis do not apply because of the oxidation involved. Maybe with temp control there will be some advances coming I hope.
- Status
Similar threads
