ProChat - All Things ProVape and Beyond

[coldgin96]

While I support, excercise, and enjoy the rights given to me under the second amendment, I am sick and tired of all the excuses and the innocent lives lost on a daily basis.

Yeah, me too.

Jackie is a shy, quiet, sweet lady. Her take on it is the good guys should be allowed to strap on what ever they want wherever they want. That way if some nut job with a semi-auto rifle with a belt full of ammo and magazines walks into the hospital (can't carry in a hospital and it scares her to death) where she works, he'll maybe get away with shooting one or two people before he ends up looking like Swiss cheese.

Don't shoot the messenger...

 

[ENAUD]

Except, I'm willing to bet we don't agree at all. I'm certainly not suggesting guns be banned. I am suggesting the acquisition of them be made more difficult.

But let's just not change anything. Oh no. Why would we do anything different?

It's like vaping, the FDA isn't banning it, they are just making it more difficult to market the products Sorry, I'll disagree with you on this one, the right to keep and bear arms is one that is worth protecting with everything that God has given me...meaning my very life if need be.

 

[YoursTruli]

Except, I'm willing to bet we don't agree at all. I'm certainly not suggesting guns be banned. I am suggesting the acquisition of them be made more difficult.

But let's just not change anything. Oh no. Why would we do anything different?

It's like vaping, the FDA isn't banning it, they are just making it more difficult to market the products Sorry, I'll disagree with you on this one, the right to keep and bear arms is one that is worth protecting with everything that God has given me...meaning my very life if need be.

Something needs to change

Dec. 26, 2000 — Wakefield, Mass.
Michael McDermott, 42, shot and killed seven coworkers at Edgewater Technology using several weapons, including an AK-47.

March 12, 2005 — Brookefield, Wis.
Terry Ratzmann, 44, shot and killed seven members of the Living Church of God at a Sheraton hotel with a 9mm handgun before committing suicide.

March 21, 2005 — Red Lake, Minn.
Jeffrey Weise, 16, shot and killed 10 people before turning the gun on himself, including his grandfather and a police officer, using several weapons, including a 12 gauge shotgun.

Jan. 30, 2006 — Goleta, Calif.
Former postal worker Jennifer San Marco, 44, shot and killed seven people, including several former coworkers, and herself.

Oct. 2, 2006 — Lancaster County, Pa.
Charles Carl Roberts IV shot and killed five female students inside an Amish schoolhouse using several weapons before committing suicide.

Feb. 12, 2007 — salt Lake City, Utah
Sulejman Talovic, 18, killed five people at Trolley Square Mall with two weapons before he was shot and killed by police.

April 16, 2007 — Blacksburg, Va.
College student Seung-Hui Cho shot and killed 32 people on the campus of Virgina Tech with two weapons before taking his own life.

Oct. 7, 2007 — Crandon, Wis.
Sheriff's deputy Tyler Peterson, 20, shot and killed six people at a post-Homecoming party in an apartment before committing suicide. He used a semiautomatic rifle.

Dec. 5, 2007 — Omaha, Neb.
Robert A. Hawkins killed eight people and himself using a semiautomatic rifle after entering the Westroads Mall.

Feb. 2, 2008 — Kirkwood, Mo.
Charles Lee Thornton, 52, entered a public city council meeting and shot and killed five people with two handguns before he was shot and killed by police.

Feb. 14, 2008 — Dekalb, Ill.
Steven Kazmierczak, 27, shot and killed five people on the campus of Northern Illinois University with several semiautomatic weapons before killing himself.

June 25, 2008 — Henderson, Ky.
Wesley Neal Higdon, 25, killed five people at Atlantis Plastics Factory with a semiautomatic weapon before taking his own life.

April 3, 2009 — Binghamton, N.Y.
Jiverly Antares Wong, a 41-year-old naturalized American citizen from Vietnam, shot and killed 14 people at the American Civic Association with two weapons before killing himself.

August 3, 2010 — Manchester, Conn.
Omar Thorton, 34, entered a warehouse owned by his former employer, Hartford Distributors, and shot and killed eight people with two semiautomatic weapons before committing suicide.

Sept. 6, 2011 — Carson City, Nev.
Eduardo Sencion, 32, opened fire with a semiautomatic rifle in an IHOP restaurant, killing four people and himself.

July 20, 2012 — Aurora, Col.
James Holmes, 25, shot and killed 12 people in a movie theater during the premier of "The Dark Knight Rises" using several weapons, including a semiautomatic rifle.

Aug. 5, 2012 — Oak Creek, Wis.
Wade Michael Page, 40, killed four people with a semiautomatic weapon inside a Sikh temple before turning the gun on himself.

Dec. 14, 2012 — Newtown, Conn.
Adam Lanza, 20, shot and killed his mother and 26 people inside Sandy Hook Elementary School before turning the gun on himself.

March 13, 2013 — Herkimer, N.Y.
Kurt Meyers, 64, killed four people at a carwash and barber shop with a shotgun before he was shot and killed by police.

Sept. 16, 2013 — Washington, D.C.
Aaron Alexis, 34, shot and killed 12 people inside the Washington Navy Yard with a 12-gauge shotgun before he was shot and killed by police.

June 7, 2013 — Santa Monica, Calif.
John Zawahri, 23, opened fire in a home and later on the campus of Santa Monica College, killing five people with a semiautomatic rifle. He was killed during a shootout with police.

July 26, 2013 — Hialeah, Fla.
Pedro Alberto Vargas, 42, shot and killed six people with a semiautomatic weapon in his apartment complex before setting fire to his own apartment. He was shot and killed by a SWAT team.

September 14, 2014 — Bell, Fla.
Don C. Spirit, 51, shot and killed his granddaughter and six grandchildren before turning the gun on himself.

May 17, 2015 — Waco, Tx.

Rival motorcycle gangs kill nine at a restaurant in Waco, Texas. There were over 170 arrests made after the incident.

June 17, 2015 — Charleston, S.C.
Dylann Roof, 21, walks into am historic black church in Charleston, South Carolina and kills nine people.


Oct. 1, 2015 — Roseburg, OR.
Christopher Harper-Mercer enters Umpqua Community College in southwest Oregon, opens fire and kills nine, wounding seven others before police shoot him to death.

November 27, 2015 — Colorado Springs, CO

Robert Lewis Dear storms in a Planned Parenthood health clinic in Colorado Springs, Colorado and kills three people and wounding nine.

December 2, 2015 — San Bernardino, CA.

A man and a woman walk into a holiday party both armed with assault weapons and kill 14 people and wounding 17 others.

June 12, 2016 — Orlando, FL.

Omar Mir Seddique Mateen, 29, killed 50 people and injured 53 at Pulse – a popular gay nightclub in Orlando, Florida. This is the worst mass shooting in US history. President Barack Obama described the horrific event as an "act of terror and hate."

 

[ENAUD]

Something needs to change

What if more of the good guys learn how to protect and defend themselves, instead of believing that the protectors will somehow magically appear when bad things happen.There is a responsibility to being free, a responsibility of self protection and self preservation. The belief that the powers that be will be there to protect you is a fallacy. They are there to clean up the mess afterwards. Citizens need to be aware, prepared, and ready to defend themselves. This has always been true, but we have as a species allowed ourselves to become complacent and unaware believing in a false sense of security offered by the mechanism of our governance. Which obviously is failing us.

 

[coldgin96]

Something needs to change

Dec. 26, 2000 — Wakefield, Mass.
Michael McDermott, 42, shot and killed seven coworkers at Edgewater Technology using several weapons, including an AK-47.

March 12, 2005 — Brookefield, Wis.
Terry Ratzmann, 44, shot and killed seven members of the Living Church of God at a Sheraton hotel with a 9mm handgun before committing suicide.

March 21, 2005 — Red Lake, Minn.
Jeffrey Weise, 16, shot and killed 10 people before turning the gun on himself, including his grandfather and a police officer, using several weapons, including a 12 gauge shotgun.

Jan. 30, 2006 — Goleta, Calif.
Former postal worker Jennifer San Marco, 44, shot and killed seven people, including several former coworkers, and herself.

Oct. 2, 2006 — Lancaster County, Pa.
Charles Carl Roberts IV shot and killed five female students inside an Amish schoolhouse using several weapons before committing suicide.

Feb. 12, 2007 — Salt Lake City, Utah
Sulejman Talovic, 18, killed five people at Trolley Square Mall with two weapons before he was shot and killed by police.

April 16, 2007 — Blacksburg, Va.
College student Seung-Hui Cho shot and killed 32 people on the campus of Virgina Tech with two weapons before taking his own life.

Oct. 7, 2007 — Crandon, Wis.
Sheriff's deputy Tyler Peterson, 20, shot and killed six people at a post-Homecoming party in an apartment before committing suicide. He used a semiautomatic rifle.

Dec. 5, 2007 — Omaha, Neb.
Robert A. Hawkins killed eight people and himself using a semiautomatic rifle after entering the Westroads Mall.

Feb. 2, 2008 — Kirkwood, Mo.
Charles Lee Thornton, 52, entered a public city council meeting and shot and killed five people with two handguns before he was shot and killed by police.

Feb. 14, 2008 — Dekalb, Ill.
Steven Kazmierczak, 27, shot and killed five people on the campus of Northern Illinois University with several semiautomatic weapons before killing himself.

June 25, 2008 — Henderson, Ky.
Wesley Neal Higdon, 25, killed five people at Atlantis Plastics Factory with a semiautomatic weapon before taking his own life.

April 3, 2009 — Binghamton, N.Y.
Jiverly Antares Wong, a 41-year-old naturalized American citizen from Vietnam, shot and killed 14 people at the American Civic Association with two weapons before killing himself.

August 3, 2010 — Manchester, Conn.
Omar Thorton, 34, entered a warehouse owned by his former employer, Hartford Distributors, and shot and killed eight people with two semiautomatic weapons before committing suicide.

Sept. 6, 2011 — Carson City, Nev.
Eduardo Sencion, 32, opened fire with a semiautomatic rifle in an IHOP restaurant, killing four people and himself.

July 20, 2012 — Aurora, Col.
James Holmes, 25, shot and killed 12 people in a movie theater during the premier of "The Dark Knight Rises" using several weapons, including a semiautomatic rifle.

Aug. 5, 2012 — Oak Creek, Wis.
Wade Michael Page, 40, killed four people with a semiautomatic weapon inside a Sikh temple before turning the gun on himself.

Dec. 14, 2012 — Newtown, Conn.
Adam Lanza, 20, shot and killed his mother and 26 people inside Sandy Hook Elementary School before turning the gun on himself.

March 13, 2013 — Herkimer, N.Y.
Kurt Meyers, 64, killed four people at a carwash and barber shop with a shotgun before he was shot and killed by police.

Sept. 16, 2013 — Washington, D.C.
Aaron Alexis, 34, shot and killed 12 people inside the Washington Navy Yard with a 12-gauge shotgun before he was shot and killed by police.

June 7, 2013 — Santa Monica, Calif.
John Zawahri, 23, opened fire in a home and later on the campus of Santa Monica College, killing five people with a semiautomatic rifle. He was killed during a shootout with police.

July 26, 2013 — Hialeah, Fla.
Pedro Alberto Vargas, 42, shot and killed six people with a semiautomatic weapon in his apartment complex before setting fire to his own apartment. He was shot and killed by a SWAT team.

September 14, 2014 — Bell, Fla.
Don C. Spirit, 51, shot and killed his granddaughter and six grandchildren before turning the gun on himself.

May 17, 2015 — Waco, Tx.

Rival motorcycle gangs kill nine at a restaurant in Waco, Texas. There were over 170 arrests made after the incident.

June 17, 2015 — Charleston, S.C.
Dylann Roof, 21, walks into am historic black church in Charleston, South Carolina and kills nine people.


Oct. 1, 2015 — Roseburg, OR.
Christopher Harper-Mercer enters Umpqua Community College in southwest Oregon, opens fire and kills nine, wounding seven others before police shoot him to death.

November 27, 2015 — Colorado Springs, CO

Robert Lewis Dear storms in a Planned Parenthood health clinic in Colorado Springs, Colorado and kills three people and wounding nine.

December 2, 2015 — San Bernardino, CA.

A man and a woman walk into a holiday party both armed with assault weapons and kill 14 people and wounding 17 others.

June 12, 2016 — Orlando, FL.

Omar Mir Seddique Mateen, 29, killed 50 people and injured 53 at Pulse – a popular gay nightclub in Orlando, Florida. This is the worst mass shooting in US history. President Barack Obama described the horrific event as an "act of terror and hate."

AT LEAST, 21 (that I know of for sure) of those places were places where it's illegal to carry.

 

[DPLongo22]

View attachment 566315
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should we limit all people's ability to own these items because a few people do not respect the power and responsibility of advanced technology.

There are millions of responsible people who do not deserve their liberty taken from them on account of a few.

MY VEYRON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[DPLongo22]

Pressure Cookers...

We should ban all pressure cookers also!!!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

No pressure.

 

[DPLongo22]

What if more of the good guys learn how to protect and defend themselves, instead of believing that the protectors will somehow magically appear when bad things happen.There is a responsibility to being free, a responsibility of self protection and self preservation. The belief that the powers that be will be there to protect you is a fallacy. They are there to clean up the mess afterwards. Citizens need to be aware, prepared, and ready to defend themselves. This has always been true, but we have as a species allowed ourselves to become complacent and unaware believing in a false sense of security offered by the mechanism of our governance. Which obviously is failing us.

True, and ultimately inevitable. It was one of the very reasons the 2nd Amendment was written in as an essential part of our establishment.

The 1st has already been annihilated, as the media have become pawns for the beliefs of their management. They were SUPPOSED to be the watchdogs.

Q: “Well, Doctor, what have we got—a Republic or a Monarchy?”
A: “A Republic, if you can keep it.”

 

[DPLongo22]

And, just for the record, I am against all crimes against humanity, and very much against acts of violence. One person harming another, be it by the pulling of a trigger or bashing over the head with a rock, sicken me. Anyone caught harming another person (or persons) should be prosecuted to the FULLEST extent of the law, with VERY LITTLE leniency.

None of this should infringe upon my right to protect myself and my family. As my brother, a former police officer, once told me. "Dialing 911 only tells us where to find the body."

And I will continue to hope that the day comes where we stop turning every one of these incidents into political issues. When my cousin was run over and killed by a drunk driver, I did NOT go on a crusade to ban cars. The person responsible is the person responsible - NOT all of the innocent drivers who had NOTHING TO DO WITH THE INCIDENT.

My firearms are all locked safely away, and not a single family member has access to them. This is not popular in my household either, as I am not ALWAYS here. But it's the way it is, and the way it will always be.

 

[LoriP1702]

I too am conflicted when it comes to some of the guns that are legally available to purchase.
But, I always remind myself that if they're banned, the bad guys will still (and always will) have them.
If they can't get the type of weapons like what was used, they may turn to chemical methods, or other explosive devices.
Where there's an evil will, there is always going to be a way.

I once toured the armory at Colonial Williamsburg. It was quite impressive.
Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but our founding fathers felt it extremely important for citizens to be able to arm themselves to the same extent as what the government could.
Of course there are some exceptions, most average citizens didn't have cannons, and of course the modern version of that is that we won't have nuclear weapons or tanks, but the gist was that the government couln't be armed in ways that the citizens couldn't fight to protect themselves in case the government turned on the people.
Sorry for my poor explaination of that. But I hope you get where I'm going with it.

Bottom line is everyone should vote where their heart tells them. It's a passionate topic, no doubt, and whenever things like the Orlando massacre happen, it all gets brought to the forefront.

Something as simple as a metal detector at the door of the nightclub might have made all the difference in the world. But, maybe not, explosive devices can always be had, and like I said earlier, where there's an evil will, there will always be a way.
Guns or no guns.

Sending up prayers for all of us who were touched by, and are grieving this senseless tragedy.

 

[DPLongo22]

...where there's an evil will, there will always be a way.
Guns or no guns.
Sending up prayers for all of us who were touched by, and are grieving this senseless tragedy.

Perfectly stated, both.

 

[AstroTurf]

Something needs to change

Dec. 26, 2000 — Wakefield, Mass.
Michael McDermott, 42, shot and killed seven coworkers at Edgewater Technology using several weapons, including an AK-47.

March 12, 2005 — Brookefield, Wis.
Terry Ratzmann, 44, shot and killed seven members of the Living Church of God at a Sheraton hotel with a 9mm handgun before committing suicide.

March 21, 2005 — Red Lake, Minn.
Jeffrey Weise, 16, shot and killed 10 people before turning the gun on himself, including his grandfather and a police officer, using several weapons, including a 12 gauge shotgun.

Jan. 30, 2006 — Goleta, Calif.
Former postal worker Jennifer San Marco, 44, shot and killed seven people, including several former coworkers, and herself.

Oct. 2, 2006 — Lancaster County, Pa.
Charles Carl Roberts IV shot and killed five female students inside an Amish schoolhouse using several weapons before committing suicide.

Feb. 12, 2007 — Salt Lake City, Utah
Sulejman Talovic, 18, killed five people at Trolley Square Mall with two weapons before he was shot and killed by police.

April 16, 2007 — Blacksburg, Va.
College student Seung-Hui Cho shot and killed 32 people on the campus of Virgina Tech with two weapons before taking his own life.

Oct. 7, 2007 — Crandon, Wis.
Sheriff's deputy Tyler Peterson, 20, shot and killed six people at a post-Homecoming party in an apartment before committing suicide. He used a semiautomatic rifle.

Dec. 5, 2007 — Omaha, Neb.
Robert A. Hawkins killed eight people and himself using a semiautomatic rifle after entering the Westroads Mall.

Feb. 2, 2008 — Kirkwood, Mo.
Charles Lee Thornton, 52, entered a public city council meeting and shot and killed five people with two handguns before he was shot and killed by police.

Feb. 14, 2008 — Dekalb, Ill.
Steven Kazmierczak, 27, shot and killed five people on the campus of Northern Illinois University with several semiautomatic weapons before killing himself.

June 25, 2008 — Henderson, Ky.
Wesley Neal Higdon, 25, killed five people at Atlantis Plastics Factory with a semiautomatic weapon before taking his own life.

April 3, 2009 — Binghamton, N.Y.
Jiverly Antares Wong, a 41-year-old naturalized American citizen from Vietnam, shot and killed 14 people at the American Civic Association with two weapons before killing himself.

August 3, 2010 — Manchester, Conn.
Omar Thorton, 34, entered a warehouse owned by his former employer, Hartford Distributors, and shot and killed eight people with two semiautomatic weapons before committing suicide.

Sept. 6, 2011 — Carson City, Nev.
Eduardo Sencion, 32, opened fire with a semiautomatic rifle in an IHOP restaurant, killing four people and himself.

July 20, 2012 — Aurora, Col.
James Holmes, 25, shot and killed 12 people in a movie theater during the premier of "The Dark Knight Rises" using several weapons, including a semiautomatic rifle.

Aug. 5, 2012 — Oak Creek, Wis.
Wade Michael Page, 40, killed four people with a semiautomatic weapon inside a Sikh temple before turning the gun on himself.

Dec. 14, 2012 — Newtown, Conn.
Adam Lanza, 20, shot and killed his mother and 26 people inside Sandy Hook Elementary School before turning the gun on himself.

March 13, 2013 — Herkimer, N.Y.
Kurt Meyers, 64, killed four people at a carwash and barber shop with a shotgun before he was shot and killed by police.

Sept. 16, 2013 — Washington, D.C.
Aaron Alexis, 34, shot and killed 12 people inside the Washington Navy Yard with a 12-gauge shotgun before he was shot and killed by police.

June 7, 2013 — Santa Monica, Calif.
John Zawahri, 23, opened fire in a home and later on the campus of Santa Monica College, killing five people with a semiautomatic rifle. He was killed during a shootout with police.

July 26, 2013 — Hialeah, Fla.
Pedro Alberto Vargas, 42, shot and killed six people with a semiautomatic weapon in his apartment complex before setting fire to his own apartment. He was shot and killed by a SWAT team.

September 14, 2014 — Bell, Fla.
Don C. Spirit, 51, shot and killed his granddaughter and six grandchildren before turning the gun on himself.

May 17, 2015 — Waco, Tx.

Rival motorcycle gangs kill nine at a restaurant in Waco, Texas. There were over 170 arrests made after the incident.

June 17, 2015 — Charleston, S.C.
Dylann Roof, 21, walks into am historic black church in Charleston, South Carolina and kills nine people.


Oct. 1, 2015 — Roseburg, OR.
Christopher Harper-Mercer enters Umpqua Community College in southwest Oregon, opens fire and kills nine, wounding seven others before police shoot him to death.

November 27, 2015 — Colorado Springs, CO

Robert Lewis Dear storms in a Planned Parenthood health clinic in Colorado Springs, Colorado and kills three people and wounding nine.

December 2, 2015 — San Bernardino, CA.

A man and a woman walk into a holiday party both armed with assault weapons and kill 14 people and wounding 17 others.

June 12, 2016 — Orlando, FL.

Omar Mir Seddique Mateen, 29, killed 50 people and injured 53 at Pulse – a popular gay nightclub in Orlando, Florida. This is the worst mass shooting in US history. President Barack Obama described the horrific event as an "act of terror and hate."

Good Job!!!

Now show me all that were prevented by guns?!?

Jim


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DPLongo22]

And not to be a Blumenthal but, the worse mass shooting in US history was actually performed by our government, against its people. They're conveniently leaving that out of the media spin, but all are free to research it for themselves.

Hence the importance of our right to bear arms.

 

[LoriP1702]

Something else that really opened my eyes, and extremely bothers me, and again, please someone correct me if I'm wrong, but when the numbers get thrown out there regarding "gun deaths" in the US, I've seen that up to 2/3 of those numbers include suicides.

I have to question the agenda of those that skew the numbers, that then skews the perception of the people, by including suicides.

 

[DPLongo22]

Something else that really opened my eyes, and extremely bothers me, and again, please someone correct me if I'm wrong, but when the numbers get thrown out there regarding "gun deaths" in the US, I've seen that up to 2/3 of those numbers include suicides.

I have to question the agenda of those that skew the numbers, that then skews the perception of the people, by including suicides.

You're not wrong.

 

[LoriP1702]

Please know that I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, nor am I saying that I'm right, and someone else is wrong in their thinking. I certainly don't have all the answers, I'm flailing along through life like everyone else.

What I am saying is, try to get all the facts that are out there, and don't close your mind to the big picture, a closed mind invites hate, and that's where it all starts.
With hate.

 

[DPLongo22]

Please know that I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, nor am I saying that I'm right, and someone else is wrong in their thinking. I certainly don't have all the answers, I'm flailing along through life like everyone else.

What I am saying is, try to get all the facts that are out there, and don't close your mind to the big picture, a closed mind invites hate, and that's where it all starts.
With hate.

I agree completely, Lori. And I'll say that one of the things that's eating at me is that, so far at least, every single divisive comment that I've seen has emanated from within the LGBT community itself. I find this perplexing, to say the least. The latest being from George Takei, as just one very curious example.

People were murdered, in cold blood and defenseless. Americans, human beings, people with families who are absolutely mindless with grief right now. To turn this into a war with ANYONE but the person responsible is simply beyond my ability to comprehend.

Does George Takei think that stricter gun laws would have kept this absolute tragedy from happening? Really? So, the guy couldn't have built a bomb, like in so many other places? Or snapped a set of grenades to himself, which happens SO often on the streets of Jerusalem?

How can we turn on each other, ESPECIALLY in light of the events? I'm absolutely sickened with grief, and anger, and about a million other emotions right now. But ALL of them are directed at that who, with more hatred than I can ever imagine, decided HE had the right to rob SO MANY people and families of what was rightfully theirs.

We're allowing ourselves to be divided and conquered, simply because we choose not to pursue obvious courses & emotions. If anyone chooses to make this a war on guns, feel free. But such efforts are both misguided and useless. As Lori stated, hatred will find its way. It always has, and always will.

 

[DPLongo22]

And with apologies, the seeds of divisiveness are coming from the very top of a political party. How very sad, indeed.

Democratic Congressman Refuses to Participate in Moment of Silence for Orlando Shooting Victims

 

[LoriP1702]

I agree completely, Lori. And I'll say that one of the things that's eating at me is that, so far at least, every single divisive comment that I've seen has emanated from within the LGBT community itself. I find this perplexing, to say the least. The latest being from George Takei, as just one very curious example.

People were murdered, in cold blood and defenseless. Americans, human beings, people with families who are absolutely mindless with grief right now. To turn this into a war with ANYONE but the person responsible is simply beyond my ability to comprehend.

Does George Takei think that stricter gun laws would have kept this absolute tragedy from happening? Really? So, the guy couldn't have built a bomb, like in so many other places? Or snapped a set of grenades to himself, which happens SO often on the streets of Jerusalem?

How can we turn on each other, ESPECIALLY in light of the events? I'm absolutely sickened with grief, and anger, and about a million other emotions right now. But ALL of them are directed at that who, with more hatred than I can ever imagine, decided HE had the right to rob SO MANY people and families of what was rightfully theirs.

We're allowing ourselves to be divided and conquered, simply because we choose not to pursue obvious courses & emotions. If anyone chooses to make this a war on guns, feel free. But such efforts are both misguided and useless. As Lori stated, hatred will find its way. It always has, and always will.

For many reasons, I have chosen not to turn on the news, I'm just catching bits and pieces of all this, emotionally, for the tragedy that happened, and the fall out, like you mentioned, it's just best for me, not to watch. I've learned that the hard way over time.
9/11 was an extremely emotional time for me, as for many, but it really took me a long time to move past that. I fear watching the news right now would not be in my personal best interest...

But, even without seeing it, I can fully imagine what you've just described.
It just adds to the tragedy. This and that group turning against each other when we should all be embracing and planning (workable) solutions.
Banning guns, in my opinion, isn't the solution.
Had one, or two people had a gun, I firmly believe the death toll wouldn't have been what it was.
I also think that pressure needs to be applied to these venues to do all that is in their power to keep their patrons safe.
Ever walk through a metal detector at a sporting event??

Hate and terrorism is an extremely complex situation, there are no easy fixes.
It's going to take a coordinated, and UNIFIED approach, and people and media outlets that seek to further divide, just are simply not helping.

Interesting that you mentioned Jerusalem.
My sister has described to me what it was like to travel through and around Israel in the early 90's.
At the airport, security screened her and personally removed the underwire of her bra. Then, she was subjected to an hour long interview as to why she was entering the country. (US military wife, there with her husband on vacation).
She also said at the shopping malls, there were several Israeli soldiers with massive automatic weapons.
I asked her, "didn't that seem weird", she said, "no, I felt safe".

I mention this because, is this our future? If we want to ensure the safety of our citizens, it makes one wonder.

 

[DPLongo22]

I do believe that we are headed for another civil war, because our leaders are PUSHING us towards one, and we're blindly following. WE are supposed to lead THEM, but we're too busy. So we follow instead.

And with that, I shut-up.