Rayon wick, better flow, flavor, saturation and Nic Hit!

[toddrhodes]

So I stopped by Sally and they looked at me weird when I asked for CelluCotton but when I said Rayon, they knew exactly where to point me. So I trucked it on home with my new 500' long friend and before I started on the lawn, took to rewicking my dual/vertical TOBH. Followed the advice in my other thread and put a small tail just into the juice well with a nice thick puff through the top, trimmed to about 1 cm above the coil.

First thing's first, I honestly feel like this stuff is much easier to work with than Cotton. With cotton, it was never stiff enough to "steer" it to a place where you could grab the tail and pull through with tweezers or needle-nose pliers. CC seems to have just the right amount of rigidity.

Dry hits - they are nowhere near as harsh as with cotton. They definitely taste dry, but not burn-y.

Flavor - It's weird, I was expecting an explosion of flavor with CC and I didn't get it. But here's the thing - that's a good thing, and here's why (again, only my opinion). With cotton, if the wicks and coils were super wet, juice would taste different. So the first hit would be overexaggerated. With CC, every hit tastes the same. And it has great flavor. I don't taste anything but my juice, for whatever that's worth.

In short, I'm very happy I took the plunge. It tastes great, is easy to work with, and is super affordable and easy to obtain.

Cheers to this thread!

 

[JeremyR]

Asking for your thoughts and opinions 'bout this.

On my 3rd tank of DIY Pomegranate (TFA flavoring) w/ CC in an R91 the juice started looking much darker than normal and wasn't tasting good. Took it apart and the wick was all a light chocolate color. Cleaned everything up re-wicked and started over.

This time on 1/2 way through my 2nd tank it started getting an 'off flavor' taste again. The color of the juice in the tank still looked fine. So I just took it apart and the 'light chocolate' color is just beginning to build up on the wick (just one side - odd). I've not had this happen w/ this juice w/ cotton or ReadyX wick material.

So what da ya'll thinks going on?



I pulled the wick out to see what it looked like under the coil and it's not burnt - it actually looked fairly clean. It looks discolored but actually when I grapped the dirty end of the wick to pull it out - it squeezed the darkened juice in the area that was under the wick.

Hey mike, looks like the density is too high. That's why the center of The coil has gunk on it. See the outer 2 coils, when you get it just right; The entire coil will look like that. Clean

The shoulders are too big on it. For whatever reason the carmelized juice is flowing to that side of your build.

And about its not burnt but only stained with juice. That's how it is, I've always found it very hard to burn it.

 

[Joshleeman]

So I stopped by Sally and they looked at me weird when I asked for CelluCotton but when I said Rayon, they knew exactly where to point me. So I trucked it on home with my new 500' long friend and before I started on the lawn, took to rewicking my dual/vertical TOBH. Followed the advice in my other thread and put a small tail just into the juice well with a nice thick puff through the top, trimmed to about 1 cm above the coil.

First thing's first, I honestly feel like this stuff is much easier to work with than Cotton. With cotton, it was never stiff enough to "steer" it to a place where you could grab the tail and pull through with tweezers or needle-nose pliers. CC seems to have just the right amount of rigidity.

Dry hits - they are nowhere near as harsh as with cotton. They definitely taste dry, but not burn-y.

Flavor - It's weird, I was expecting an explosion of flavor with CC and I didn't get it. But here's the thing - that's a good thing, and here's why (again, only my opinion). With cotton, if the wicks and coils were super wet, juice would taste different. So the first hit would be overexaggerated. With CC, every hit tastes the same. And it has great flavor. I don't taste anything but my juice, for whatever that's worth.

In short, I'm very happy I took the plunge. It tastes great, is easy to work with, and is super affordable and easy to obtain.

Cheers to this thread!

LOL yeah I feel the same way, after reading this thread and watching videos of people saying they taste new flavor notes in juice they been vaping for years I was expecting a dramatic difference. For me it's definitely great wicking medium and better than the japanese, very easy to work with. Also on 1/8ID coils, which are very large, Im still splitting it in half longways so its essentially 1000' of wick. I love that I no longer have to unroll, and then find 2 equal thickness/consistency strands of cotton. Its so easy to work with Im rewicking every morning in my drippers, and will do every tank on kayfun. I actually saw cellucotton being used in a kayfun rebuilding video months ago and the guy said it was better than regular cotton but I thought nothing of it,ppl always say what they use is better, glad its come to light as being a great medium or id have never of even bothered to try it.

 

[MikeE3]

Thanks for all the comments.

That is odd.
Could it be a hot spot on that end of the coil?
I think what I would do is wrap a new coil and see if it happens again

No I don't think it's a hot spot. Some else is going on. Before re-doing the coil I'd try different juice and/or more or less wick.

All i can think of that coil and wick on the right side looks really gunked up like the juice might have a lot of sweetener in it or something going on.. I have had coils look like that pretty fast with some nets but have never tried the juice you are using..

No - this juice isn't a sweet juice and no extra sweetner has been added to it.

I'm getting the same discoloring like mikee3 on my veritas. I've tried to rewick them at different densities but no luck and I don't see any hotspots.. I don't taste anything burnt but it's been bugging me because of how other's have been staying so clean.

At least I'm not alone.

I'm just thinking outload, but, MikeE3, I'm thinking that the darker side might be it is not wicking as well as the left lighter side. Is one tail longer than the other? Is one side pinched in some manner restricting juice flow? Just my 2 cents adjusted to $2.00 for inflation.

Nope - the tails on either side of the coil are pretty much the same length.

Maybe it's the Sucralose she's tasting (if any)? To me, that has a funny undertone, and it was the first thing that smacked me in the face when I switched.

I have no idea if there's any suralose in the TFA flavoring but I'm sure no extra has been added.

The length of your coil look very small, short. What gauge wire and what resistance is it. What watts and or volts are you hitting it with.

This is a 1.4 ohm coil. 28g Kanthal wrapped on a #39 drill bit, .0995". The length is .106" long. And that is Cotton.

View attachment 348042

It 28g Kanthal A1 - 6x wraps around a 2.3mm (.091 inches) mandrel for 1.1Ωs. It's running on a mech mod so watts depends on whether the batt is fresh or drained some from use. I usually switch out the batt at 3.6-3.7 volts. So I'm probably vaping about +/- 12 watts. This coil setup has worked well for cotton and ReadyXwick.

Interesting. I'm having the same thing on my cyclone. First build out of many this past week with this issue. Possible that I under stuffed the coils.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.

See you're not alone either there's at least 2 others of 'us' with this issue to figure out.

Hey mike, looks like the density is too high. That's why the center of The coil has gunk on it. See the outer 2 coils, when you get it just right; The entire coil will look like that. Clean

The shoulders are too big on it. For whatever reason the carmelized juice is flowing to that side of your build.

And about its not burnt but only stained with juice. That's how it is, I've always found it very hard to burn it.

I like your suggestion best. I was actually thinking of trying 2 different things. 1.) a different juice with the same coil and the same amount of wicking and 2.) less wicking material. I felt I was using 'a lot' but it fit through the coil snuggly but then seemed looser once it was in place.

So I'll try your suggestion 1st (less CC for the wick) and see how it goes.

Thanks again everyone for offering your thoughts and suggestions. (Ain't ECF great for getting help)

 

[bsoplinger]

If you want to take the time to write something that you want others to read in order to express your opinions and then throw away the effort by making your thoughts unreadable its your prerogative. Just remember, its others prerogative to skip your writings because they're unreadable.

Ok everyone, we have to abide by the the punctuation rules in order to make bsoplinger happy. Didn't you guys already know that that is why we are here?
... I think you should respect that.

Its rather clear. Said its your prerogative to make unreadable posts. Also noted its my and others prerogative to ignore unreadable posts. I'm extremely unclear how that isn't respecting your decision to write unreadable posts.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Xparent Purple Tapatalk 2

 

[Thayamax]

Its rather clear. Said its your prerogative to make unreadable posts. Also noted its my and others prerogative to ignore unreadable posts. I'm extremely unclear how that isn't respecting your decision to write unreadable posts.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Xparent Purple Tapatalk 2

Let's face it, everyone at one time or another makes capitalization, spelling or punctuation errors, especially on forums where people are more lax and sometimes in a hurry to post. Those things don't necessarily make a post unreadable.

The problem lies with posting a wall of text with no line breaks in sight. Those are quite difficult to read for many, if not most people, myself included. It is a person's right to post however they choose, and another person's right to skip it if they're having difficulty reading it.

Nobody needs to jump on anybody for exercising their rights.

 

[sonicdsl]

Folks, this is an ecig forum, not a grammar forum. Keep the posts on topic from here on out, or we'll have to close this thread.


Have a great evening!

 

[dogcat]

Happy to answer that for you.. Funny I've been asked that so many times. It's the grandfather of modern atomizers. The GG odessyus , but I only have the tobecco clone since I can't afford a real one. The clone is pictured. I was the first to put a vertical in it.

speaking of verts, I just came up with a cone coil for my rose, and it's the best flavor I've had on the the rose yet. I finally received my cellucotton from a fellow canadian from this thread this week (thanks RSZ1!). I had to accept his offer knowing it would get here sooner than the packages from my American friends on this thread. I took a couple of days to formulate an opinion, and I'll say in advance that I think Brian's advice of playing with it is probably the best idea, in order to come to any conclusions. So in my two days (barely a few hours after work), I do not have much experience yet, but have been vaping the builds for 24 hours. Probably due to user error, I am not getting the same flavor experience on my double kayfun vertical build. I don't think I can say it's a case of using too much, or not enough wicking material, as in this case the wicks are on the outside of the coil, not the inside. But it is possible that I have to change the way I wrap it on the coil, as I am using similar techniques to how I would use cotton. A firm but not tight wrap. I also tried inside the coil techniques on my rose,and I would say it was a very similar experience to the tencel tops. Sick wicking, and very resilient against flooding, in contrast to my cotton builds. These two attributes alone make both tencel top and the cellucotton extremely attractive. Again, probably due to user error, I did find both mediums imparted some flavor to the vape. For now I have reverted my rose to a cotton core for the flavor I know, with a cellucotton exterior for both wicking and protection against flooding. It is a dream vape for now, and has barely broken in. I will leave the all cellucotton build on my kayfun double vertical another day to see how it continues to break in. I use a particular brand of custard in it (grant's vanilla custard), which tends to taste better after a day or two. I know the flavor inside out on my double vertical kayfun build, and it is sick with cotton. Looking for the cellucotton to catch up, or will be doing mixed 50/50 as Jermey had suggested many posts back, or the cotton core hybrid wrap.

the cone coil

here is the rose with cotton core and rayon wrap, super combo

 

[DrByteh]

Many years ago I sold heating elements. Two parameters that came up often were:

Specific Heat: is the measurable physical quantity of heat energy required to change the temperature of an object by a given amount.

Watt Density: How many watts in a given volume or surface area.

So We had to figure out what we were heating, by how much and how fast. To fast and it was "overcooked" or melted. Too slow and it didn't flow or "froze". Sound familiar?

So how does this apply to us?

Specific Heat (here abbreviated SH) is going to be comprised of 3 things.

SH of the wire itself
SH of the wick
SH of the fluid we are trying to heat

Right there we have 3 variables. None of which we know. Or at least I don't. But it is part of the equation.

Watt Density (here abbreviated WD) is comprised of 3 things.

Diameter of the heating wire
Diameter of the coil
Spacing of the coil

Again 3 variables. But at least we can measure or build to some close tolerances.


If this was an industrial or commercial endeavor I could develop a formula for success. However the ultimate destination is human taste. Given gender differences, ... oh hell .... a lot of differences there is little chance for success.

But the mind moves in mysterious ways, .... there must be a way!

This is just my contribution to stirring the pot. There are so many variables in this game, there will never be a perfect solution.

Just today I cleaned out 3 attys after 3 days on rayon. They looked disgusting. Washed them under some running water, let 'em dry and they are back in service! No re-wick. No dry burn.

FYI

My coils are 1.8-2mm ID some loose coiled, some tight. Anywhere from 1.2 to 2.4 ohm. And I use a Vamo.

Cheers. Vape on!

 

[PaulBHC]

One of my tanks wasn't always giving a good taste. Filled the tank and after a couple of off hits, decided to rewick it. Couldn't pull the wick through the vertical coil. Must be too much. Took it all off and made a new coil. Wicked it as previously described. Huge difference. This was one of my early builds, IIRC burnt at one point and I pulled up the burnt section and cut it off.

5/64 coil I am pulling off a piece about the size of a Sharpie pen, the one with the rounded ends and a cone point, a little bigger than a pencil.

 

[f1vefour]

Initial impression of rayon is it beats cotton at everything except juice retention which is both good and bad.

Just wanted to thank SteamHead for sending out a massive sample.

And on a funny note, soon as I opened the package my wife said (from 5 feet away) "You can get that at Sally's" without me telling her what it is or what it's for.

 

[NahkriinKrosis]

Just put 30 drops in the Helios clone and there's zero juice on the deck! This stuff is awesome. I just rebuilt a protank coil for my girlfriend and she is liking it quite a bit. Hope she doesn't overdue it and get herself Nic sick!

 

[Aal_]

Initial impression of rayon is it beats cotton at everything except juice retention which is both good and bad.

Just wanted to thank SteamHead for sending out a massive sample.

And on a funny note, soon as I opened the package my wife said (from 5 feet away) "You can get that at Sally's" without me telling her what it is or what it's for.

No juice retention? I think it is retaining juice as much as cotton and delivers faster which is a plus. Not sure if it is some kind of placebo or really hapening.

 

[Thunderlips]

You also have to watch out they sell the stuff in pure cotton with the same name you have to check the box carefully.

I noticed that. In the small writing it'll say either cotton or Rayon.
It seems fairly impossible to buy this in Australia.
I grabbed some more from Amazon, box number 44043, which was listed in an earlier post as being ok.

Anyway I have never seen the reinforced stuff but I think it is just a paper strip. Can you just peal off the paper and use just the "Rayon" portion?

Ok I might be able to still use it then. I'll report back when it arrives.

Thanks.

 

[Thunderlips]

I also purchased this one and have found that it contains a small strip of paper in the very center. It seemed to be just intertwined amongst the fibers and not glued in any way. Took out this strip and now left with only rayon. what did you hear about it being different?

That's good to know. Now that I have two separate boxes coming I'll have enough to last me for years.
Vaping will probably be banned in Australia long before I run out.

In an earlier post by VenusianSky, he mentioned which ones were ok and which were not by the various box numbers.
Basically it was the ones that are labeled "regular" that are ok and those labeled "reinforced" are not.
I only saw a portion of the post as a quote in another post so I'm not sure if he explained why not to use it.
Maybe it's simply because of what you mentioned, the strips of paper.

 

[tw33k]

People weren't sure about the reinforced until someone actually tried it and found you could simply remove the paper. Now we know it's good if that's all you can get

 

[gorman]

Is Graham CelluCotton box #44040 one of the right options to choose?

It's 1,200 ft. as opposed to 3 lbs. you get in box #44043. It's not reinforced.

 

[SlickWilly]

Is Graham CelluCotton box #44040 one of the right options to choose?

It's 1,200 ft. as opposed to 3 lbs. you get in box #44043. It's not reinforced.

44060 is the 500 foot box that is NOT reinforced. This the one I got at my local Sally's store.
Graham CelluCotton Cotton Coil

Damn, it's 5 AM Guess there's no sense in going to bed, might as well make a pot of coffee....

 

[Aal_]

My 3rd rayon trial is on kayfun. Till now no dry hit. It seems perfect. I'm fully converted now.

However still having problems with the weird taste the first puffs. When you say prime it do I do fires and let some vapor out or just soak it and wait?

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

 

[toddrhodes]

No juice retention? I think it is retaining juice as much as cotton and delivers faster which is a plus. Not sure if it is some kind of placebo or really hapening.

Not sure if I experienced what he's talking about last night, but I replaced a cotton cloud in my IGO-W with a CC "cloud." Now granted, I'm only basing this on the color of the cloud, but when I started to lose flavor and get dry hits, my cotton cloud would be almost stark white. Juice is Deadly Sin, for what it's worth, a gold-ish color. On the CC, the cloud looked like it still had plenty of juice when I got a really bad dry hit, the worst of the night. I fiddled with the coils a little WITHOUT adding juice and it seemed to get better the next few pulls, so long as they were short pulls. I don't know if it was the coil position that was really the issue or not, it looked fine before I fiddled with it and all I did was raise it up a little so my thought was ok, a.) it needed a little time to rewick and b.) I may have choked off the wick a bit if the coil was pressed too far down... then a few minutes later the same thing (this is after re-wetting). Maybe CC/Rayon doesn't like to be a "cloud" per se? Not sure, but in this case, the cotton seemed to do a better job for longer. Still working with it though, it's fantastic stuff.