Rayon wick, better flow, flavor, saturation and Nic Hit!

[djironic]

Hey all - just rewicked two kayfun Lites and an Omega tonight using the CC I picked up at Sally's Beauty Supply today.

I've perused the thread for info, but trying to sort through the whole thing gave me a bad case of TL;DR, so I thought I'd just ask a few questions, lol...

Are you boiling the CC before using? I definitely feel like I taste...something. Similar to how I could taste cotton somewhat if I didn't boil the bejeezus out of it first. The CC seems to mute the flavor a bit, or at very least it adds that "cottony"-type flavor experience on top of the vapor. I get none (or very little) of that with my thrice-boiled organic cotton.

Secondly, it seems like vapor production is down. I'm not blowing the heavy, juicy clouds I'm accustomed to with cotton. I'm wondering if it's because I have packed the coils (and, consequently, the deck) with so much more wick and have thus reduced the airflow. I notice that the vapor production seems to pick up if I chain vape/take long hits (I tend to be a quick mouth-hitter), but it still feels kinda...thin? Reminds me of a stock Protank-type vape. I have had no dry hits, which I would think would accompany less vapor, so I'm not sure what's going on.

When I use cotton, I go very sparingly - enough to mostly fill the coil, but still so loose that I can slide it around easily. From what I've read, the suggestion is that, with CC, more is more, so one Kayfun I packed with as much wick as I could pull through without damaging anything, and the other I went with slightly less, but still pretty tight.

The super-tight wick filled at least half of the chimney to the deck (I stuffed it to the side so it didn't completely block the juice channel), the less tight wick filled at least a third of the chimney to the deck (as compared to my cotton wicks, which only fill probably 20-25% of the chimney in the classic "S-configuration").

I was thinking I may have used to much CC, but the Kayfun with the slightly-looser wick has started flooding, so I don't think that's the case. And there is definitely no choking going on with the coil - haven't had a dry hit yet.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[djironic]

Apart from the muted flavors and lack of vapor (lol), I do like how absorbent the rayon is. Unbelievable, actually. I kept pouring juice into the Omega, and it kept soaking it up. I probably added twice the amount of juice as I would with cotton. Quite the thing there!

Also, I love how easy the CC is to work with. As I said, I boil the bejeezus out of my cotton, and that tends to have it get all nappy. Getting a nice smooth wick is incredibly easy with the CC!

If I can get the actual vape dialed in, I think we've got something here, lol...

 

[Aal_]

I will comment on 2 things as part of my experience as well.

Regarding the vapor production I'm almost sure that because it wick too good your coil is not getting as hot as it does with cotton so just crank up the watts and report back again. Taking long hits that increase the vapor with no dry hits kinda confirms this.

Regarding the rayon taste, I don't boil it and I have tried to soak it in juice for like 2 minutes it didn't remove that taste. It does go away in my case after like 3 minutes of vaping.

Others are not having this taste so I'm not sure.

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[Tbev]

Due to the increased juice delivered to the coil we've been dropping a couple tenths of resistance and having good results, no need to boil.

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[f1vefour]

Due to the increased juice delivered to the coil we've been dropping a couple tenths of resistance and having good results, no need to boil.

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But if you get a salty or metallic taste a quick rinse may help as some of the sodium sulfate may be leftover.

 

[MasterofNone]

Don't know if this link will work, but JeremyR your spot got blown up, apparently, on click bang last night.

http://mixlr.com/vp-live/


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[JeremyR]

But if you get a salty or metallic taste a quick rinse may help as some of the sodium phosphate may be leftover.

Correction, it's sodium sulfate that could possibly be left on it, a non-toxic salt called grubers salt, in the same family as Epsom salt; magnesium sulfate. But this has yet to be proven as a potential problem or fully recognized as an issue yet.

 

[JeremyR]

Josh,
If you listen close there is one time that he does call it "CelluCotton".
From the look of it I am sure it is the stuff we are using.

It is cotton. If it was rayon he would say so because that's a big deal. He says cotton at the beginning and during wicking. Graham make two versions cotton and rayon. Rayon looks similar to cotton unless you look closely.

 

[JeremyR]

Apart from the muted flavors and lack of vapor (lol), I do like how absorbent the rayon is. Unbelievable, actually. I kept pouring juice into the Omega, and it kept soaking it up. I probably added twice the amount of juice as I would with cotton. Quite the thing there!

Also, I love how easy the CC is to work with. As I said, I boil the bejeezus out of my cotton, and that tends to have it get all nappy. Getting a nice smooth wick is incredibly easy with the CC!

If I can get the actual vape dialed in, I think we've got something here, lol...

There are many different factors that can be at play with each individuals wicking. Rayon takes more power because of the increased saturation. It is very hard for a beginner to tell what's going one because as you said it doesn't flood even though it's extremely saturated; over saturation for your wattage always causes low vapor. It sounds like too much wick which can mute the flavor. It will continue to wick if its too tight but flavor will be muted. As you see it soaks up a lot of juice so a good priming over the course of a few minutes is needed to make sure you have it full.

Then add in the tanks wicking setup and you have another variable that could be off.

Did you see my post the other day with wick shots. Wick should come straight out of the coil same size as od of coil and little to no shoulders.

This is a different wick so it will take some trial and error. It's about like the first time you tried to make cotton work.. Epic fail !

 

[Sploosh]

I lost an old "friend" of mine over the weekend since starting to use Rayon.

Please join me in saying farewell to Mr. Dryhitting Kraken. R.I.P.

Day 5 now and not a single dry hit. As I stated before, I have found I no longer have to tip my Kraken either.

Anyone want some organic cotton?


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[JeremyR]

I've been reading a book, regenerated cellulose fibers, description follows-

"This is a comprehensive work by industrial and academic specialists proving up-to-date information on the chemistry, physics, process technology, applications and markets for man-made cellulosic fibres. It covers the properties and applications of viscose rayon, cupprammonium rayon and the new solvent-spun fibres as well as considering their relationships with the natural cellulosics such as cotton "

It does indicate rayon for medical/ pharma use is held to a higher standard of purity.

Also all rayon has a very safe, enviro friendly, organic based, nontoxic lubricant added to help processing into bales. A couple different kinds.

 

[awsum140]

Jeremy, I hope you have a lot of water available while you're reading that. It sounds a little dry.

 

[JeremyR]

No I'm drinking my juice vapor. Lol
I'm into these kinds of readings..

 

[dice57]

Same here, I just couldn't get the balance right on my rose with a vertical build. either too much juice wicking in through the juice wells or not enough. I'm sure there is a sweet spot, but I couldn't find it. I finally reverted to a ramie bed, a cotton core , and a rayon wrap , including rayon in the juice wells. This hybrid is working awesome, though if anyone has had any luck on the rose with a vertical build and all rayon I'd love to hear it. You may consider mixing it up in the squape to try and find a good balance of materials .


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I have one Rose2 with dual verts, serial style. Did one horizontal and one Inverted V-twin. Oh, but used ramie, been going strong for 2 months now. Yeah, time to rewick, and on the rose, that means a rebuild also. Hmm, but I bet I can put the leads in the inside of the V, and.....hmmm, frak, 07:30, crap, work at 19:00, probably craps too. crap, frak, no time to build, time to snooze, nite all.

 

[JeremyR]

I lost an old "friend" of mine over the weekend since starting to use Rayon.
Please join me in saying farewell to Mr. Dryhitting Kraken. R.I.P.
Day 5 now and not a single dry hit. As I stated before, I have found I no longer have to tip my Kraken either.
Anyone want some organic cotton?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That was great! Lol

Glad your lovin it.

 

[VenusianSky]

Are you boiling the CC before using? I definitely feel like I taste...something. Similar to how I could taste cotton somewhat if I didn't boil the bejeezus out of it first. The CC seems to mute the flavor a bit, or at very least it adds that "cottony"-type flavor experience on top of the vapor. I get none (or very little) of that with my thrice-boiled organic cotton.

I boiled a bunch, and what I have found is that, for me, it may have turned out to be worse for wicking. Boiling it takes the fluffiness out of it and actually causes it to become gnarled it some places, which essentially counters the consistency that you do get with rayon. You can work out the gnarls and sort of return its fluffiness by massaging it before you put it on. However, I noticed that while I was doing so, the fibers were breaking off very easily, unlike the rayon that I hadn't boiled. I boiled the stuff for about 15 minutes, which maybe was too much. While boiling may not be the best way to wash it, possibly just rinsing it may work better. I've gone back to using the cellucotton straight from the packaging and I don't believe I've noticed any strange taste from it.

 

[HolmanGT]

I boiled a bunch, and what I have found is that, for me, it may have turned out to be worse for wicking. Boiling it takes the fluffiness out of it and actually causes it to become gnarled it some places, which essentially counters the consistency that you do get with rayon. You can work out the gnarls and sort of return its fluffiness by massaging it before you put it on. However, I noticed that while I was doing so, the fibers were breaking off very easily, unlike the rayon that I hadn't boiled. I boiled the stuff for about 15 minutes, which maybe was too much. While boiling may not be the best way to wash it, possibly just rinsing it may work better. I've gone back to using the cellucotton straight from the packaging and I don't believe I've noticed any strange taste from it.

VenusianSky,

I have not noticed any CC taste either.

Also I have read a data statement that temperatures over 200 degrees F will cause the rayon to degrade. Yes I know that most coils exceed this temperature but you are not trying to work the material once installed.

The article didn't really go into what they meant by "Degrade".

 

[JeremyR]

Yeah if it was dry it would. Just like it would burn. But since it's wet it's essentially protected. If you dry hit it too much it will degrade to ash.

If you taste it it's too tight. Similar to cotton if its too tight you'll taste it.

If you choose to boil all your wicks a low temp boil for a minute or less. Mainly you would just need to soak/ rinse it. You want to leave the fiber straight and undisturbed as much as possible. If you do this carefully it will be almost as good as new just a little more compressed.

The medical/ pharma rayon (balls) are very very clean there is no need to wash or boil what so ever even for clean freaks, that has been done extensively already.

 

[Rossum]

If you choose to boil all your wicks a low temp boil for a minute or less.

I hate to be a stickler but.. The only thing that influences the temperature at which pure water boils is the ambient pressure, and unless you're using a pressure cooker, that only practical way to change that is via altitude. So at what altitude do I have to be in order to get the temperature low enough?

BTW, I think you meant a low intensity boil?

 

[JeremyR]

Yeah stickler for sure, lol .. Yes low Intensity, sorry I was preoccupied when I posted that..

Just don't see a need to get the pot super hot with 500 degree big burners, trying to get the water to boil fast. Some of The rayon will be touching the pot.

Besides soak time will likely do more for Sally's than boiling anyway; if your a stickler for boiling your wicks. Hence the slow heating to boil they will automatically have a longer soak time, if they feel they must boil.