Regulating Internet Sales

[Jman8]

I wish to note that I am in the camp that says FDA won't ban eCigs and will likely regulate some aspect(s) of the industry.

This thread isn't so much about how would FDA enforce a regulation of internet sales, though that is open game for discussion. I'm wondering how the ecig industry itself might self regulate that online transaction to ensure persons under 18 aren't able to obtain the product?

As things stand right now, I think current 'regulation' that sites use (be they ecig or otherwise) are, in my experience, a joke. It really seems to me that many under 18 could rather easily obtain pretty much any and all vaping materials simply by pressing a web button that says, 'why yes, of course I'm over 18.' And as long as that's in place as - the best we in the industry can come up with to self regulate (and restrict) sales to minors, I think it is begging for more strict regulation or plausibly a ban on internet sales altogether.

I'm also in the camp that says if FDA (or some other entity) did ban internet sales that it would be challenging to enforce and not too difficult for the consumer to get around that. Could be hard on some vendors, but that is the goal from the other side, I would think.

 

[Thrasher]

from all that i read the ban is mainly focused on ecigs and nic juice, just like water pipes are never banned i dont think APV mods and rebuildable accesories will be either, maybe taxed to death but no real way to stop it. if i can get ...... freely im sure nic wont be a real problem either.

 

[DawnBella]

from all that i read the ban is mainly focused on ecigs and nic juice, just like water pipes are never banned i dont think APV mods and rebuildable accesories will be either, maybe taxed to death but no real way to stop it. if i can get ...... freely im sure nic wont be a real problem either.

(Yes you may not agree with me but I'm just making a point) Why is it that they allow 4,000 bullets to be purchased online by any single individual but wish to enforce what level of nicotine I can inhale? Is there any truth to this 4mg limit? Where is this coming from? the source.

 

[Iffy]

Why is it that they allow 4,000 bullets to be purchased online by any single individual...

Whoa dere, that was only half my order! Gotta protect my nic cache from the unprepared hoards.

I think the 4mg restriction is being proposed in Europe.

 

[DawnBella]

Is that true about 4mg in Europe and not here? I'm just trying to get FACTS as to what may go down. I reading some wild stuff. Like BLU will only be sold... which is a total joke and no way that could be true. That would be a monopoly on a market and that is not legal in our country.
ps. I don't care if you bought 40,000 bullets as long as there is a way to prove you are not a nut job when ordering online and your reason was FUNNY!!!! ;-)

 

[Thrasher]

Is there any truth to this 4mg limit? Where is this coming from? the source.

yes the 4mg limit has been passed in europe so this is where the panic is coming from, there is no actual statement from our govt on what, where or how much yet just that they are talking about regulating it.

 

[DawnBella]

Ugh. That is scary!! So flipping stupid. They sell real cigs with no prop why? Cuz they are so safe? eye roll. Just tax me if you wish but hands off my eRoll and 24mg!!

 

[Unc1987]

Age verification upon delivery.

MailPro - Volume 5 Number 3 May/June 2011

It's what they do with wine. The cost is passed to the consumer, a small fee. Can be a pain to because you have to be home to accept the delivery.

 

[Tanti]

It would be the same with anything you buy on the internet that requires you to be an adult. Look at the adult sex toys and buying ammo, there are so many things that requires the buyer to be 18 or 21.

 

[Drael]

Dawnbella - The 4mg/ml proposed limit in europe is for non-registered medicines. Its effectively a ban, but ruyan is some way through (probably over half) applying as a medicine here in new zealand, maybe 1-2 years left to go, and when they finish the required research theyll no doubt be able to apply in canada and the EU as well.

And of course, it could be relatively easy to concentrate nic, and indeed these restrictions are on sales, not import or possession, so like here in new zealand, people in the EU, maybe able to just buy their nic base or e juice overseas online. And people can make it, so even if there was a restriction, temporarily, it would create a black market...



The deeming regulations proposal in the US is basically this (atm, it may change), in order to advertise as lower harm than tobacco, there will be a costly process. In order to use products created after 2007, you may or may not have to have a costly application process (then again, maybe not, the devices arent made of tobaco are they?).

There may be warning labels. It becomes considered "a tobacco product", under these regulations (But I can only assume this means the juice and not the device, no way a nic free device could be considered a tobacco product).

Its more probable IMO, that _if_ the deeming regulations become applied, they'll be changed to suit e-cigs, rather than simply left as is. ATM, they don't really even fit e-cigs, its like a square peg in a round hole, the way the law is currently written.

Its basically a bunch of regulations that could be highly annoying, or overly restrictive. Nobody really knows what it means yet, but its very very unlikely most of the things people are talking about, like bans, nic restrictions, or taxes are remotely involved IMO.

POS (r18) and ad restrictions (no glamour or kiddie marketing), manufacturing standards, and some very minor restrictions on health claims (like you can't claim its 100% safe, but you can say its doesn't have tar, ash or carcinogens and is _safer_), seem the most rational approach, if the fda wants to regulate.

But one always expects a regulation or two, in any set that isnt quite as rational :/

Could online purchase be a part of that? I doubt it. But, if so, they could always get an officially signed/witnessed fax of your drivers license - once they have proof just the once, that should be enough for you to keep ordering under the same name/login/address and credit card number...

 

[wacdenney]

The age restriction is enforced online by the need to have a credit card for Payment. You have to be 18 to have a credit card.

 

[Jman8]

The age restriction is enforced online by the need to have a credit card for Payment. You have to be 18 to have a credit card.

Do prepaid credit cards work?

 

[DawnBella]

Dawnbella - The 4mg/ml proposed limit in europe is for non-registered medicines. Its effectively a ban, but ruyan is some way through (probably over half) applying as a medicine here in new zealand, maybe 1-2 years left to go, and when they finish the required research theyll no doubt be able to apply in canada and the EU as well.

And of course, it could be relatively easy to concentrate nic, and indeed these restrictions are on sales, not import or possession, so like here in new zealand, people in the EU, maybe able to just buy their nic base or e juice overseas online. And people can make it, so even if there was a restriction, temporarily, it would create a black market...



The deeming regulations proposal in the US is basically this (atm, it may change), in order to advertise as lower harm than tobacco, there will be a costly process. In order to use products created after 2007, you may or may not have to have a costly application process (then again, maybe not, the devices arent made of tobaco are they?).

There may be warning labels. It becomes considered "a tobacco product", under these regulations (But I can only assume this means the juice and not the device, no way a nic free device could be considered a tobacco product).

Its more probable IMO, that _if_ the deeming regulations become applied, they'll be changed to suit e-cigs, rather than simply left as is. ATM, they don't really even fit e-cigs, its like a square peg in a round hole, the way the law is currently written.

Its basically a bunch of regulations that could be highly annoying, or overly restrictive. Nobody really knows what it means yet, but its very very unlikely most of the things people are talking about, like bans, nic restrictions, or taxes are remotely involved IMO.

POS (r18) and ad restrictions (no glamour or kiddie marketing), manufacturing standards, and some very minor restrictions on health claims (like you can't claim its 100% safe, but you can say its doesn't have tar, ash or carcinogens and is _safer_), seem the most rational approach, if the fda wants to regulate.

But one always expects a regulation or two, in any set that isnt quite as rational :/

Could online purchase be a part of that? I doubt it. But, if so, they could always get an officially signed/witnessed fax of your drivers license - once they have proof just the once, that should be enough for you to keep ordering under the same name/login/address and credit card number...

Thank you for this reply!

 

[wacdenney]

Prepaid credit cards should work. The same as a fake ID or having your buddy buy cigs for you at the gas station. Nothing is perfect.

 

[shatner]

The age restriction is enforced online by the need to have a credit card for Payment. You have to be 18 to have a credit card.

Absolutely not true. Minors can have a card in their name under the parent's account. CC companies could possibly put some type of age verification on the card. I'm not sure how feasible that would be, though.

 

[wacdenney]

Yeah you can also use your parents credit card. Felons can also buy guns from the mob. You can buy drugs without a prescription on the street corner. I don't think anything that is 100% perfect is available.

 

[Orobas]

I've had some experience with "age verification" fiascoes.

The game I play regularly, SecondLife, instigated age verification before they merged the teen and adult "grids", and elected to employ a company called Aristotle for age verification. Aristotle has a reputation for selling the information they mine through offering these sorts of verification services... and indeed, it can potentially mean they're selling it to your insurance company.

Meditate on that briefly.

That said, I declined to have my personal information collected and sold; and elected instead to age verify using the personal information of deceased celebrities. That's right, my small army of avatars passed age verification by claiming to be Elvis Presley or Topac Shakur.

So not only are we looking at having our information unscrupulously mined and sold, we're looking at it being unscrupulously mined and sold by a company so damn stupid that they can be fooled by over 9000 people claiming to be the king.

Yet another reason why i am planning and budgeting to procure large quantities of bulk nicotine base before it hits the fan.

Incidentally, age verification has since been been dumbed down in steps until it was merely a checkbox on the website, but now you can "verify" simply by clicking "change maturity preferences" in a floater in the game on a whim if you attempt to teleport into an adult rated sim.

 

[jerseyrob]

Thats why I think where going to see a influx of BM shops starting to pop up . If the FDA does impose a tax on e-juice then I think purchasing juice from a website is going to be limited to the amount they can sell you. Just like years ago when you could by analogs online . My sister did it for about 8 months then all of a sudden received a tax bill saying, she owed 1800 dollars to the government for unpaid taxes on them. All the purchases where paid by credit card. I mean granted all the analogs came from over sea's, But the ordering firm was here in the US. I hope it doesn't come to this, But if any kind of regulations are passed the government is going to start with cracking down on websites first.

 

[Uncle Willie]

1) Stockpile now if you are truly concerned .. order all the nic solution you can afford .. I personally have 6000ml in the freezer as we speak .. which in my case is about a 20-25 year supply .. that may be the best $360 I ever spent .. yes, it's a little costly, but think of what you used to spend on analogs .. heck, a tank of gas is $90 bucks for my truck ..
2) If you don't DIY, learn how to
3) Flavors / PG / VG / Batteries, etc will not be regulated
4) Study up on Tommy Chong as it relates to interstate traffic of certain items and the use of the Web to sell

 

[Uncle Willie]

Thats why I think where going to see a influx of BM shops starting to pop up . If the FDA does impose a tax on e-juice then I think purchasing juice from a website is going to be limited to the amount they can sell you. Just like years ago when you could by analogs online . My sister did it for about 8 months then all of a sudden received a tax bill saying, she owed 1800 dollars to the government for unpaid taxes on them. All the purchases where paid by credit card. I mean granted all the analogs came from over sea's, But the ordering firm was here in the US. I hope it doesn't come to this, But if any kind of regulations are passed the government is going to start with cracking down on websites first.

It will be local government that goes for the brick and mortar shops ..