Replace "Subohm" with "High Wattage"

[ClippinWings]

they claim it strictly means resistance.

I've never wavered from that stance...

I build sub ohm coils based on the amps my battery can handle and the volts it delivers.

as you can see... Wattage is not something I take into consideration... unless someone asks. It's a by product of the process for me.

I will say i was surprised when i did the math on my dual coil and realized i was vaping 40 watts... that seems like crazy high wattage... but wattage is irrelevant because it's number doesn't do anything to describe the vape I get. since it's a cooler smoother vape than I used to get on vv at 10 watts

 

[dr g]

I've never wavered from that stance...

I build sub ohm coils based on the volts my battery can deliver and the amps my battery can handle.

I don't even care what the Wattage is unless someone asks.

just because you ignore watts doesn't mean what you are doing isn't about watts. When you "build your coil based on the volts [your] battery can deliver and the amps [your] battery can handle" you are generating a certain wattage.

What you said is like saying, "I don't care about driving, I only care about steering, while operating the gas and brake pedals."

 

[bulldog63h]

High wattage notes the LACK of a difference. When the coil is above 1 ohm it's a good reason, the reason for this discussion is that with the advent of high power boards and expanded understanding of coil building, comparable results can be had below or above 1

I haven't even been arguing this point. All i'm referring to is the meaning of the term sub-ohm in it's basest form. Not what can or can not be achieved with any particular setup. No matter the device you are using to power the coil, if it is below one ohm, it is vaping on a sub ohm coil, or sub-ohm vaping for short.

 

[dr g]

I haven't even been arguing this point. All i'm referring to is the meaning of the term sub-ohm in it's basest form. Not what can or can not be achieved with any particular setup. No matter the device you are using to power the coil, if it is below one ohm, it is vaping on a sub ohm coil, or sub-ohm vaping for short.

And that agrees with the OP and me.

 

[ClippinWings]

What you said is like saying, "I don't care about driving, I only care about steering, modified by pressing the gas and the brake."

that's almost an accurate analogy... but it's more:

I don't care about the destination, I just enjoy getting behind the wheel and driving.

See, in both cases there is an end result, but that end result is irrelevant to the experience. Unless asked about it... then you can say "I vape at 40 watts" or "I drove to las vegas"

 

[ClippinWings]

And that agrees with the OP and me.

...?!

no it doesn't... it's what I've been saying... you called it "disingenuous"

 

[dr g]

...?!

no it doesn't... it's what I've been saying... you called it "disingenuous"

Your use of it is disingenuous because you argued the opposite for many pages before switching in an attempt to derail.

 

[ClippinWings]

Your use of it is disingenuous because you argued the opposite for many pages before switching in an attempt to derail.

your first post claimed "sub ohm" didn't describe anything

my first reply to you said "high wattage" didn't describe it any better.

Then I got off topic into your tangent... again, I've yet to see 6+ inches of 28 gauge wire used in a coil.

When I realized your discussion of this non-existent coil was merely a diversionary troll... I went back to the base definition.

 

[bulldog63h]

And that agrees with the OP and me.

The term subohm has historically meant subohm *mech* vaping which implies other variables, most importantly wattage and coil mass. With the advent of devices that can control power independently of load resistance in the <1 ohm range, these other variables are no longer represented by the term "subohm." So whereas before it inherently described a whole "style" of vaping, it no longer does.

You are both right and wrong. The second half of what you said is what I have been saying. The first part isn't correct because "subohm" as it has been used represents subohm *mech* vaping which includes other factors and effects.

The argument is not about the literal definition of subohm, people who can't come up with a relevant point have resorted to playing that as a reductio ad absurdum card. Clearly subohm to them means more than just the resistance of the coil or they would not have spent half the thread trying to argue that it was a "different vape."

The The term subohm has historically meant subohm *mech* vaping which implies other variables, most importantly wattage and coil mass. With the advent of devices that can control power independently of load resistance in the <1 ohm range, these other variables are no longer represented by the term "subohm." So whereas before it inherently described a whole "style" of vaping, it no longer does.

You are both right and wrong. The second half of what you said is what I have been saying. The first part isn't correct because "subohm" as it has been used represents subohm *mech* vaping which includes other factors and effects.

The argument is not about the literal definition of subohm, people who can't come up with a relevant point have resorted to playing that as a reductio ad absurdum card. Clearly subohm to them means more than just the resistance of the coil or they would not have spent half the thread trying to argue that it was a "different vape."

The OP went over the definition. I covered your post above in my first post of the thread (post #9).

Wattage is a primary thought in subohm mech vaping. Because it's a mech, varying the resistance varies the wattage and that is the key effect of going with low resistance went over the definition. I covered your post above in my first post of the thread (post #9).

Wattage is a primary thought in subohm mech vaping. Because it's a mech, varying the resistance varies the wattage and that is the key effect of going with low resistance

Various example to the contrary. You and op refer to sub ohm vaping as vaping with a mech, thus the desire to coin a new term. No more B.S. Pick a stance and stick with it. Otherwise all past and future arguments on your side are rendered invalid.

 

[t8kiteasy]

You can't take the DNA20 below .9 without the battery dumping all the power to the atty.So you are essentially using what we have all posted on here,a mech. device,to vape with a sub ohm coil.

 

[sonicdsl]

This arguing crap needs to stop now!

 

[dr g]

You can't take the DNA20 below .9 without the battery dumping all the power to the atty.So you are essentially using what we have all posted on here,a mech. device,to vape with a sub ohm coil.

Not true, you can go to about .65 or so. I don't use DNAs out of regulation. I also don't really use subohm coils on them anymore.

 

[bulldog63h]

This arguing crap needs to stop now!

I apologize. I am trying to keep things civil and gentlemanly.

 

[Mad Scientist]

The naysayers have gotten silly. For those who want to paint me as a vv/vw guy, you don't read what I write. I am just about device independence. I use mechs. I use vv/vw devices. I use battery independent power sources that can deliver hundreds of amps and almost 10,000 watts (that is to say, a practically unlimited source of power, not that I ever actually use a fraction of it for vaping). The artful mechs of today will be paper weights when the battery form factors and present day voltage chemistries are obsoleted. I have a radio that uses B batteries. It is a beautiful example of the technology of the day but no more than a conversation piece now. Any of you wipersnappers even know what a B battery is?

Similarly, far faster than the evolution of battery chemistry is the invention of vaping gear. It's all going to change. You know one day a high drain single cell battery delivered 2 volts. Now it's 3.7 nominal. Tomorrow, who knows. The key is, when that day comes, the dr. g's of the world will tweak the build based on the basic physics and vape on. What will all of the naysayers do?

 

[bulldog63h]

The naysayers have gotten silly. For those who want to paint me as a vv/vw guy, you don't read what I write. I am just about device independence. I use mechs. I use vv/vw devices. I use battery independent power sources that can deliver hundreds of amps and almost 10,000 watts (that is to say, a practically unlimited source of power, not that I ever actually use a fraction of it for vaping). The artful mechs of today will be paper weights when the battery form factors and present day voltage chemistries are obsoleted. I have a radio that uses B batteries. It is a beautiful example of the technology of the day but no more than a conversation piece now. Any of you wipersnappers even know what a B battery is?

Similarly, far faster than the evolution of battery chemistry is the invention of vaping gear. It's all going to change. You know one day a high drain single cell battery delivered 2 volts. Now it's 3.7 nominal. Tomorrow, who knows. The key is, when that day comes, the dr. g's of the world will tweak the build based on the basic physics and vape on. What will all of the naysayers do?

I hope you're right about the timeframe. I won't even kid myself by claiming to know about battery chemestry or the changes that have been made even in recent history. I do believe mechs will continue to have their place in the vaping world though, just like vinyl records still have their place in the music world. Even if it's just for nostalgia's sake.

 

[st0nedpenguin]

The term subohm has historically meant subohm *mech* vaping which implies other variables, most importantly wattage and coil mass. With the advent of devices that can control power independently of load resistance in the <1 ohm range, these other variables are no longer represented by the term "subohm." So whereas before it inherently described a whole "style" of vaping, it no longer does.

The chip powering the devices you're referring to doesn't correctly control the power of sub ohm coils.

Also sub ohm refers to sub ohm coils.

 

[st0nedpenguin]

Not true, you can go to about .65 or so. I don't use DNAs out of regulation. I also don't really use subohm coils on them anymore.

I was under the impression the DNA20 was unable to regulate down, so it's not gonna be regulating a .65 coil unless the battery is almost dead.

 

[dr g]

The chip powering the devices you're referring to doesn't correctly control the power of sub ohm coils.

Well that's false.

I was under the impression the DNA20 was unable to regulate down, so it's not gonna be regulating a .65 coil unless the battery is almost dead.

It can regulate a fully charged battery down to ~3.4v and a partially discharged battery down to about ~3.0v.

Some examples:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...1198-dont-fooled-dna-20-a-3.html#post10181105
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...1198-dont-fooled-dna-20-a-3.html#post10186008

 

[josho]

Well that's false.



It can regulate a fully charged battery down to ~3.4v and a partially discharged battery down to about ~3.0v.

Some examples:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...1198-dont-fooled-dna-20-a-3.html#post10181105
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...1198-dont-fooled-dna-20-a-3.html#post10186008

Example 1 is at 20W, which isnt a surprise. If he kicked the wattage down lower I bet it'd struggle

Example 2 is on a 1.7ohm coil. How is that a relevant comparison to a 0.65ohm coil?

Also, it's completely consistent with the results pbusardo posted which I linked earlier.

 

[dr g]

Example 1 is at 20W, which isnt a surprise. If he kicked the wattage down lower I bet it'd struggle

You can go down to 17-18 on a fresh battery and about 14 on a partly charged battery. If you were interested in a lower wattage vape there's no reason to build a coil that low resistance (there's actually not that much reason to build a coil that resistance on this board anyway). Either way, it's still regulated.

Example 2 is on a 1.7ohm coil. How is that a relevant comparison to a 0.65ohm coil?

Because it shows what the regulation capabilities of the board are. I assure you it works the same at .65 ohms.

Low wattage performance is not any kind of point relevant to this thread. If you want lower wattage, just raise the resistance.