Should ECF staff be doing more to keep its members?
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I have read through this thread. In my mind, I was thinking how this relates to management at my job. If rules are in place, they must be enforced across the board or I start loosing respect for management/moderators. Do I agree with everything? NO. Will I leave this forum? NO, just like I will not quit my job because of poor management. I am not saying ECF is mismanaged. I think it is the best forum I have been on.
I have never been reprimanded yet, but if I need to be I would like to see it done privately just as I would rather be called into the office at work rather than being reprimanded on the floor where other employees would hear.
I think the mods have been doing a great job.
I would however like to be able to post pics from my phone on the classifieds. This has kept me from posting anything since the change to them.
I have never been reprimanded yet, but if I need to be I would like to see it done privately just as I would rather be called into the office at work rather than being reprimanded on the floor where other employees would hear.
I think the mods have been doing a great job.
I would however like to be able to post pics from my phone on the classifieds. This has kept me from posting anything since the change to them.
Content is the driver of hits for any website. If there is no content present chances of your presence for more than a few moments is minimal. There are a few ways to get content however the most popular are article and forum based or a combination of the two for non commercial sites. Really depends on the focus of the site.
Content based depends on normally one perhaps two people being focussed. Ecf is obviously forum based so is dependent on the community that contributes to it.
Now there is a downside to forum based sites. Actually far more than one lol If for one reason or another the stars align and the site becomes popular as have no doubt this one has through the sheer presence of numbers certain decisions need to be taken as regards style and content users are allowed to post. This usually is decided by the original creators of the site and captures policies such as swearing, innuendo and the like. Most topics have a number of sites each has its style. This is true in vaping. Want to swear there are sites that will enable you to do just that. Ecf has made the policy of not being enablers for those behaviours.
Immediately that decision is made and communicated there is going to be losses to the community.
Back to that word. Really there is nothing the owners or admins or moderators can do to retain visitors, posters or contributors. They can and do provide a platform for people to post in a respectful, informative and as trouble free manner as they can through the enforcement of forum rules but it is up to you and me to contribute to the site that keeps others visiting, consider contributing themselves or not.
What can the admins do to retain people? Nothing more than they do now. How can they in a community of volunteer based contributors?
It is in the nature of forums for there to be a turnover of people. Every forum no matter how hard it tries cannot be right for everyone. Some previously prolific posters will disappear without a word, some will go with a blaze of self righteous glory with a I fall on my sword for the good of all post (my favourite), some will join another forum bemoaning Ecf for x,y or z reason. It happens and will ever be in a cycle of it happening.
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Content based depends on normally one perhaps two people being focussed. Ecf is obviously forum based so is dependent on the community that contributes to it.
Now there is a downside to forum based sites. Actually far more than one lol If for one reason or another the stars align and the site becomes popular as have no doubt this one has through the sheer presence of numbers certain decisions need to be taken as regards style and content users are allowed to post. This usually is decided by the original creators of the site and captures policies such as swearing, innuendo and the like. Most topics have a number of sites each has its style. This is true in vaping. Want to swear there are sites that will enable you to do just that. Ecf has made the policy of not being enablers for those behaviours.
Immediately that decision is made and communicated there is going to be losses to the community.
Back to that word. Really there is nothing the owners or admins or moderators can do to retain visitors, posters or contributors. They can and do provide a platform for people to post in a respectful, informative and as trouble free manner as they can through the enforcement of forum rules but it is up to you and me to contribute to the site that keeps others visiting, consider contributing themselves or not.
What can the admins do to retain people? Nothing more than they do now. How can they in a community of volunteer based contributors?
It is in the nature of forums for there to be a turnover of people. Every forum no matter how hard it tries cannot be right for everyone. Some previously prolific posters will disappear without a word, some will go with a blaze of self righteous glory with a I fall on my sword for the good of all post (my favourite), some will join another forum bemoaning Ecf for x,y or z reason. It happens and will ever be in a cycle of it happening.
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2
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I realize now that when I made my comment about scary moderators I was really trying to say what malzado said above!
Short, but sweet.
1) Allow verification through paypal via credit card. I too will not allow anyone access to my bank account.
2) Yes, some mods can be scary and might use a softer touch (well, one actually), but some people call it like they see it, don't they Old Soldier?
This has to be one of the most thankless jobs around and I appreciate ALL of our volunteers.
3) I see this forum as dual purpose: One to find valuable information on, and one to socialize and make new friendships. Where might it go from that? I think that ECF is already a respected force but would like to see it become even more so....
Oh, did I mention verification through credit card?
1) Allow verification through paypal via credit card. I too will not allow anyone access to my bank account.
2) Yes, some mods can be scary and might use a softer touch (well, one actually), but some people call it like they see it, don't they Old Soldier?
This has to be one of the most thankless jobs around and I appreciate ALL of our volunteers. 3) I see this forum as dual purpose: One to find valuable information on, and one to socialize and make new friendships. Where might it go from that? I think that ECF is already a respected force but would like to see it become even more so....
Oh, did I mention verification through credit card?
I'm new to this forum and e cigs in general. that said i do have a couple of problems with this forum. I dont understand why i have to start out in beginners to post replies. If this is for spam i don't understand. beginners threads are not riddled with spam. I dont like that i cannot see the classified in here. i might understand why i might not be able to post there until verified but why cant i just look. You should probably just warn the people selling and buying about criminals and thats it. no block. I think a very important thing about a forum like this is to help new members quit smoking but all these rules are kind of a turn off. Even though http://www.reddit.com/r/electronic_cigarette/ doesn't have as many members as here i find my time better spent there. I use this site as a how to/e cig pedia when i need. I thank you for that. Hope this doesn't come off rude. just wanted to help.
ohh and i think anyone on the site should be able to see pics without signing in or up first.
I am afraid to post anymore because I am afriad of being booted, I have seen it happen too many times -- I think I have justifiable complaints but i don't feel that they are even considered so why should I care anymore? The last two debacles were the post buttons on every post and the continuation thread stupidity -- no warning and nary an apology for freaking people out, in fact Elendil told me to grow up. Dang, I know the place is not a democracy and everything but shouldn't we be considered when changes are thought of like we did in the classys, OS? And I have to be honest, roly making fun of me for running IE8 instead of realizing the social buttons are unwanted by 95% of the forum I found humiliating, it turned me off of here something fierce.......
I have a number of moderators as friends (even Elendil!
) (spaky, I laugh every time I see a post from you, great caption!!!
) but when they tell you they don't know what's going on with a forum problem and/or infraction -- then who does?
Don't ban me, please............
I have a number of moderators as friends (even Elendil!
) (spaky, I laugh every time I see a post from you, great caption!!!) but when they tell you they don't know what's going on with a forum problem and/or infraction -- then who does?Don't ban me, please............
even though this is going off-topic ....
sun, you misunderstood. all that is needed is a VERIFIED paypal account. joker doesn't care how you get this verification, bank account, credit card, whatever.
depending on when people joined paypal the verification process has differed. atm the 2 only options are linking your bank account or a credit card issued by paypal.
I am afraid to post anymore because I am afriad of being booted, I have seen it happen too many times -- I think I have justifiable complaints but i don't feel that they are even considered so why should I care anymore? The last two debacles were the post buttons on every post and the continuation thread stupidity -- no warning and nary an apology for freaking people out, in fact Elendil told me to grow up. Dang, I know the place is not a democracy and everything but shouldn't we be considered when changes are thought of like we did in the classys, OS? And I have to be honest, roly making fun of me for running IE8 instead of realizing the social buttons are unwanted by 95% of the forum I found humiliating, it turned me off of here something fierce.......
I have a number of moderators as friends (even Elendil!
Don't ban me, please............
ripple, i have read all the threads concerning the splitter disaster and, to me, the explanation and apology were very much acceptable.
something new was tried with unforeseen consequences - it happens! i'm sure work is being done behind the scenes on a daily basis. you can't expect adm to keep us abreast of each and every thing. the few times roly expected a problem he put up a notice.
oooops - forgot one thing! there was advance notice of a kind!
roly had posted that, for a few weeks, they would try different things to see if page load times could be shortened!
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I don't post a lot here - mostly because I've found this forum a bit overwhelming (my issue - and i'm learning my way around - it's a BIG forum!) But, I have to say the above seems unfair. It may depend, I suppose, on how long the pre-edit post was there - but how often do people say things - realize they misspoke or could be taken wrong - and so change it? That's human. It seems a bit oppressive to make a simple error a punishable offence.
Thank you ECF staff for all you have done, past current and future. I know how much time and dedication it takes to work as a volunteer, it goes without saying, volunteers are the backbone of all things good in our world Cheers to ECF and all the good you do!! 
bnrk
Cheers to ECF and all the good you do!! bnrk
I guess I should comment on this because I'm one of the few folks who has been an ECF mod who has left the "service" and remained active at the same level in the community. I'm also in good graces with the forum management- I was going to be doing something else so I resigned.
It has been interesting at times since I tend to go *everywhere* in the community without much regard for the social politics involved.
On one hand I would find myself at a vape meet being an apologist for ECF policy and staff (which I would still do). On the other hand I would find myself being behind the scenes usually urging my peers on the mod team to use finesse in how they delt with correcting behavior on the forums.
I never was quite able to universally convince "ECF haters" that actions were taken in good faith and that the staff was trustworthy, open minded, and actually quite professional. Finesse was also hard to come by for some folks. And I suppose I was a pretty crappy mod.
That being said... there's a bit of intolerance on both sides of the equation. There has been for a long time. The echoes of the "bad old days" echoed for a long time. And quite frankly the actions of many people on both sides of that "political divide" were quite reprehensible from my standpoint.
It's been my wish for a long time that the divide from the "bad old days" would resolve. And for the most part it has. Meeting people face to face has solved a lot of that- in most cases. And where time has not healed wounds I tend to ignore the politics.
I'd note that I've been given an infraction on two occasions in my time here. And I was quite upset when I got them. In fact I thought the second one was prejudicial because the rule wasn't being applied to a friend who had the exact same graphic in their signature. I fumed that it was selective. I imagined that I had been "singled out". That perhaps ECF decided it didn't like me and I would booted like "all those other people".
That was before I became a moderator.
Once I was a mod, and could see both sides of the issue, it became clear that there were folks over-shooting the mark on both sides of the divide between ECF staff and the community.
But could it be solved?
No. It couldn't. Because people are imperfect, forum members are essentially consumers, vendors are business people, and ECF staff are human.
So the way I dealt with the "divide" or alienation some people and mods experienced was to be as liberal as possible in interpreting the rules on ECF from an enforcement standpoint, and to remember that this stuff (forums culture) isn't really all that important.
The important things are handshakes, hugs, and conversation. Important things are preserving our rights to a smoking alternative, innovative products, good prices, and treating our peers with respect even when you do not agree with them. And many others.
It has been interesting at times since I tend to go *everywhere* in the community without much regard for the social politics involved.
On one hand I would find myself at a vape meet being an apologist for ECF policy and staff (which I would still do). On the other hand I would find myself being behind the scenes usually urging my peers on the mod team to use finesse in how they delt with correcting behavior on the forums.
I never was quite able to universally convince "ECF haters" that actions were taken in good faith and that the staff was trustworthy, open minded, and actually quite professional. Finesse was also hard to come by for some folks. And I suppose I was a pretty crappy mod.
That being said... there's a bit of intolerance on both sides of the equation. There has been for a long time. The echoes of the "bad old days" echoed for a long time. And quite frankly the actions of many people on both sides of that "political divide" were quite reprehensible from my standpoint.
It's been my wish for a long time that the divide from the "bad old days" would resolve. And for the most part it has. Meeting people face to face has solved a lot of that- in most cases. And where time has not healed wounds I tend to ignore the politics.
I'd note that I've been given an infraction on two occasions in my time here. And I was quite upset when I got them. In fact I thought the second one was prejudicial because the rule wasn't being applied to a friend who had the exact same graphic in their signature. I fumed that it was selective. I imagined that I had been "singled out". That perhaps ECF decided it didn't like me and I would booted like "all those other people".
That was before I became a moderator.
Once I was a mod, and could see both sides of the issue, it became clear that there were folks over-shooting the mark on both sides of the divide between ECF staff and the community.
But could it be solved?
No. It couldn't. Because people are imperfect, forum members are essentially consumers, vendors are business people, and ECF staff are human.
So the way I dealt with the "divide" or alienation some people and mods experienced was to be as liberal as possible in interpreting the rules on ECF from an enforcement standpoint, and to remember that this stuff (forums culture) isn't really all that important.
The important things are handshakes, hugs, and conversation. Important things are preserving our rights to a smoking alternative, innovative products, good prices, and treating our peers with respect even when you do not agree with them. And many others.
That's not true. The paypal account is required to have the same email addy as you use on ECF. That's where things begin to go south for me. My Paypal addy is one I use exclusively for financial stuff.
edit: Unless there has been another recent rule change redacting the earlier rule change.
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