Yes you're right. There isn't anything with arguing to prove facts. I do at all the time. There is however something wrong with arguing to prove opinions. You say that is over priced. That is your opinion. They say it is worth every penny. That is their opinion. This can't really be a statment of fact because it comes down to how much you're willing to pay. I think clothes from abercrombie are over priced but people who shop there say its worth every penny. Do you see what i'm saying? Also, i think there is a fine line between arguing and insulting.
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Yes you're right. There isn't anything with arguing to prove facts. I do at all the time. There is however something wrong with arguing to prove opinions. You say that is over priced. That is your opinion. They say it is worth every penny. That is their opinion. This can't really be a statment of fact because it comes down to how much you're willing to pay. I think clothes from abercrombie are over priced but people who shop there say its worth every penny. Do you see what i'm saying? Also, i think there is a fine line between arguing and insulting.
Yeah I'm really good at "riding" that line while trying to not get into trouble with moderators (which only happened once on the Sony forum years ago because of a misunderstanding)
I know I can't prove fact 100% but I can help others that read my posts to form their own opinion when buying something and in part my arguments were to get all the info out I could. If I won the lotto I would probably buy a Provari in every finish but I would probably buy a lot of other devices because it wouldn't matter. To the everyday man the money does matter and they need best bang for their buck.
Edit: Did you know it used to be normal practice in this country to mark up clothing 300% or more..glad those days are over..well mostly...
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Wow this is unreal here if you can't afford a provari than don't buy one why bash it?I have bought 5 provari's and don't regret one of them.I also HAD one LT sorry it is not the same chinna trying to coppy with mass production and i think you are over paying for the quality of the lt,thats your choice.I don't mind spending my money on a high quality product from the usa that strives on small buisness that yes makes a proffit as they should!I wouldn't run a buisness for free nore will i work for free.
The one button is so easy to push untill they come up with mind transfer for changing voltage it don't bother me in the least.And i always know the fine people at provape will back my mod up 200%.
To each ther own
The one button is so easy to push untill they come up with mind transfer for changing voltage it don't bother me in the least.And i always know the fine people at provape will back my mod up 200%.
To each ther own
Lol. If i won the lottery i would just buy out provape.
If I won the lotto I would probably get into mass producing them at a reasonable price..I would try to make one that was cost effective and try to make an honest profit.
Hmm I don't remember what size I used as it was a couple months ago. I believe mine is font size 2..you can just highlight what you wrote and select the font size from the menu..there is probably a limit to how big the sig can be so depending on how long the sig is and what font you use that can limit the size font you can use. Sorry I didn't get back sooner but I had to make me some breakfast lol...
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I would love to have a Provari but just can't justify the price. I would be afraid to carry it with me for fear of losing it or it getting stolen. I am gonna hold out till the price becomes more reasonable, in the meantime I love my lavatube and mini-lavatube it is well built and last me all day and that's all I ask for in a vv mod
Perfectly understandable fear. If it helps, its MUCH harder to lose your PV, than your smartphone. Its also much harder to find someone interested enough in stealing one
I've had my provari mini for a week. And I can honestly say that I've only used the button maybe 3 times (mostly to play around with it. It's a new toy, what can I say). If you use the same type of cartos and juices, than it's mostly a set it and forget it thing. I can see adjusting if I discover a new juice from a new vendor and once dialed in, no more need for pushing buttons.
And like someone said prior, once you dial in a number, that is the number you get for voltage. From fully charged battery to just about dead. Same voltage. Consistent voltage, consistent vape...That's what I paid for. A device like an LT you would most likely have to keep pressing the + button as the battery depletes because as it drains, the voltage drops. If you want to keep your vaping consistent, I'm sure you have to do this. So for me, in reality, I think I would be pushing the button alot more with an LT to compensate for the voltage drain per day, per week than I would with a provari.
A regular cigarette was always consistent for me. It smoked the same from first cig to the last one in the pack. The provari gives me that consistency.
If you can find me a cheaper device that can give me that consistency and be reliable at the same time, then let me know, put me in a time machine, and I will gladly give that one a purchase before I would have bought the provari. But I don't think there is such a device besides the darwin and that device is even more expensive than the provari.
And like someone said prior, once you dial in a number, that is the number you get for voltage. From fully charged battery to just about dead. Same voltage. Consistent voltage, consistent vape...That's what I paid for. A device like an LT you would most likely have to keep pressing the + button as the battery depletes because as it drains, the voltage drops. If you want to keep your vaping consistent, I'm sure you have to do this. So for me, in reality, I think I would be pushing the button alot more with an LT to compensate for the voltage drain per day, per week than I would with a provari.
A regular cigarette was always consistent for me. It smoked the same from first cig to the last one in the pack. The provari gives me that consistency.
If you can find me a cheaper device that can give me that consistency and be reliable at the same time, then let me know, put me in a time machine, and I will gladly give that one a purchase before I would have bought the provari. But I don't think there is such a device besides the darwin and that device is even more expensive than the provari.
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We will have to see what the next LT maybe it will be more accurate for people that are picky but to me the small variances are so small it would be hard to tell the difference..I think a lot of people watched a couple videos and saw someone telling them it was dropping off a lot and bought into it too much.
The thorough videos (I watched dozens of videos about VV devices) with the testing the drop off didn't seem bad until the batteries were at close to 3v and really you should charge the batteries at not lower than 3.3v for longevity. BTW probably stacked batteries in a VV PV would give you more consistency and more amperage because your only dropping volts not boosting it with modulation.
i have to be honest, i think buying a lavatube at this point was a mistake, with the v2 being just around the corner. That being said, consider that you can't buy many 18650/3.7v mods for the price of a lavatube, its not a bad deal. I have a list of vv mods i want (3VO, Upcoming Notcigs ENVY, Upcoming Smoktech Bolt VV, Lavatube V2, Provari V2, Buzz Pro) and I plan to have them all in turn (when I can justify the price)
I almost waited for the lt v2 but then decided that the v1 would work just fine for me and i really wanted it in stainless steel which supposedly won't be done again.
I've seen videos on YouTube with the lavatube and a ProVari hooked up to a meter.
The lavatube drops voltage under load - it's a fact
The ProVari (especially V2) does not drop
I have a ProVari, it's like the Rolls Royce of Ecig vv's
A few back ups also but nothing can touch the ProVari IMO
The lavatube drops voltage under load - it's a fact
The ProVari (especially V2) does not drop
I have a ProVari, it's like the Rolls Royce of Ecig vv's
A few back ups also but nothing can touch the ProVari IMO
I think the reason for the contention in this thread is obviously due to differences in opinion, but also the fact that the most vocal critic of the provari hasn't actually had one in hand. I personally thought the exact same thing about the provari when I was researching VV mods, that it was priced too high and that provape's profit margins must be ridiculously high. Ultimately, unless you know the cost of each component in the provari and what the manufacturing costs are, I think it's a little difficult to make any accurate judgements about the "fairness" of the price point. You can speculate all you want, but in the end, it's simply opinion that the price is unreasonable unless you can provide verifiable facts about what the components cost, and what the cost of manufacturing is. Also, with running a business, there's even more that goes into determining price point than cost of components and manufacturing, but without knowing those variables, I don't know how anyone can unequivocally say that the provari is "too expensive".
For me, it came down to the fact that I saw many LT owners that weren't happy with their device, bought the provari, and wondered why they wasted time and money buying the LT first. Not to say that there aren't happy LT owners out there as well, but if you look at provape's section or the provari sub-forum, you don't see people saying that the provari is good and all, but not worth it for the price point. And considering that the people who have made a significant investment in a device are going to be the most vocal if they feel that their purchase wasn't a good value, I think that says something.
For me, it came down to the fact that I saw many LT owners that weren't happy with their device, bought the provari, and wondered why they wasted time and money buying the LT first. Not to say that there aren't happy LT owners out there as well, but if you look at provape's section or the provari sub-forum, you don't see people saying that the provari is good and all, but not worth it for the price point. And considering that the people who have made a significant investment in a device are going to be the most vocal if they feel that their purchase wasn't a good value, I think that says something.
You are absolutely right meatwad.. how many people have you seen on the forum say "Oh I payed too damn much for this provari it wasn't worth it." I've never seen it. If the provari is too much a Buzz pro is a great option. A good solid device as I've seen through videos and reviews. I plan on picking up a pro (non ECF version) in the next few months for a back up and for a 2nd flavor.
Yeah everybody is unhappy with their Lavatubes..that's why it gets 5 start reviews on Apollo E Cigs and won the Guide to Vaping award for best new mod 2011..I see a lot of happy people in the Lavatube forums too..most of the people I see complaining about it are Provari owners. Sure because it's mass produced there are some bad ones..but there are some bad Provari's too.
I can get an idea of how much a Provari costs to produce..a piece of stainless tubing about that size costs less than $10 for 1 piece now if you bought in bulk I'm sure it would be $2-3..sure there are costs of machining it and the end caps. I'm sure at 1st it did cost a lot to produce them but they seem to be mass produced so it wouldn't surprise me if it cost $40 or less to make.
I'm sure it costs less than $15 to make a Lavatube at this point too..if you could buy bulk from L Rider you can get a LT kit for $30 a set or less. Back in the late 80's Corvettes that were selling for $25k+ were costing GM about $3500 to make in labor and materials excluding design costs.
I can get an idea of how much a Provari costs to produce..a piece of stainless tubing about that size costs less than $10 for 1 piece now if you bought in bulk I'm sure it would be $2-3..sure there are costs of machining it and the end caps. I'm sure at 1st it did cost a lot to produce them but they seem to be mass produced so it wouldn't surprise me if it cost $40 or less to make.
I'm sure it costs less than $15 to make a Lavatube at this point too..if you could buy bulk from L Rider you can get a LT kit for $30 a set or less. Back in the late 80's Corvettes that were selling for $25k+ were costing GM about $3500 to make in labor and materials excluding design costs.
I already stated my opinion on the Provari..once.(all thats needed, don't you think)
Now that the L-rider VV has been out a few months, I am reading more and more threads, comments (here on ECF) about them falling apart or just quit working. So if they last 3-4 months at 50-60 bucks apiece.... I dunno you do the math.
I have one, as a backup...its still like new (even came with the recessed negative button, but its functional)....cuz I never have to use it.
I think the OP already ordered the PV's he wanted...
Definately, this thread is done.
Now that the L-rider VV has been out a few months, I am reading more and more threads, comments (here on ECF) about them falling apart or just quit working. So if they last 3-4 months at 50-60 bucks apiece.... I dunno you do the math.
I have one, as a backup...its still like new (even came with the recessed negative button, but its functional)....cuz I never have to use it.
I think the OP already ordered the PV's he wanted...
Definately, this thread is done.
Lol. If i won the lottery i would just buy out provape.
I would do something else with the money, but if I did win and buy them...I would double the price on the Provari, then make some "limited editions" for five times the price. Because people would still buy them, and come here to talk about them, and show them off, and make other people jealous, and make Chrispy's head explode.
That's the way the business world works. You can compete on price while dealing in volume and controlling costs, or you can distinguish your product and charge a premium. I know which one I would choose, and have always chosen in the past. A comfy ride to the top is much more fun than the rat race to the bottom.
Actually throughout this whole post I have been laid back because I'm a laid back person so my head won't be exploding..I also won't be jealous of a Provari when I have a device that does the same thing for 1/4 the price and mine even has voltage buttons making it easier to work with..BTW be careful not to drop your Provari without a battery in it because they break if you do since they forgot to put anything to hold the electronics. Plus don't buy a flat top IMR because it won't work and enjoy pressing buttons "10x" every time you want to change something.
Ok guys seriously KNOCK IT OFF!! If a moderator happens to view this thread would you mind closing it for me? I don't care which device is better. And no chrispy i'm not talking about you anymore. I just want this thing closed. I will never post a thread with both the lavatube and provari in it ever again. And for any of you who actually care, My Silver Bullet arrived in the mail today and I love it.
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