Slow Cooker Extraction of Tobacco and Tea

[LongDraw]

Now I am excited. All supplies are here. Cleaned my mason jars, just loaded one with about 15ish grams of cherry cavendish, and this one will sit for a cold maceration as an experiment. I am thinking at least two weeks, unless others think it should be longer.

Also, picked up a nice little crock pot. Loaded up another mason jar and just put in the crock pot to sit for the night. Figure I will do as scarf suggested and do 3 low temp cooks, about 7 hours each and then will let sit all day until bed time again.

Looking forward to see how this works out. I think after I get this one done will load up the Sam's flake next.

 

[billherbst]

All supplies are here. Cleaned my mason jars, just loaded one with about 15ish grams of cherry cavendish, and this one will sit for a cold maceration as an experiment. I am thinking at least two weeks, unless others think it should be longer.

LongDraw,

I'm pretty sure you'll enjoy the process and be at least pleased, if not downright thrilled, with the results.

I've done a couple of stints as a beta-tester for MountainOakVapors (MOV), giving feedback on various NET-based liquids that Steve had in development. One of the insights that came out of Steve's email exchanges with me and his other beta-testers was that he was leaning toward extending the time frame of his cold macerations to allow more and deeper flavor infusion into the extract liquid. If I recall correctly, he wrote about moving from a one-month steep to a two-month steep before filtering.

As far as I'm concerned, no hard-and-fast rules exist for how long a tobacco maceration should steep. I began my first home-brewed NET as a cold-process, but after two weeks the liquid hadn't darkened sufficiently or become fragrant, so I shifted into heat-assisted mode.

You could start out with two weeks, then pour off and filter a tiny bit of the extract liquid (just couple milliliters would suffice for testing purposes). Make up some small batches of juice made from the test extract at different percentages and vape away. If you love the flavor, stop the steeping right then and filter the whole batch. If you're not absolutely tickled pink with the test juices, give the maceration another two weeks or even another month and a half. Longer can't hurt.

With heat-assisted macerations, I'm of the opinion that letting the maceration "rest" between slow, low-heat "cooks" is a good idea. Why? I don't know, it just feels right to me. Heat-assisted macerations take only 2-4 days from start to finish anyway, so adding an extra day strikes me as no big deal.

At the end of the day, you're the only judge of when the extract is "ready." Even the worst-case scenario (where the extract turns out less than wonderful) isn't tragic. Heck, we're talking about 15-20 grams of tobacco and a buck or two in PG/VG.

Scarfy's first extract (Montecristo) was such a stunning success that it gave me the confidence to try my own macerations, all three of which have turned out amazingly well. I mean, after all, this ain't rocket science. If you know your way around a kitchen and have a little food/cooking savvy under your belt, you'll do fine. We're all learning as we go...

 

[Dammage]

PG and VG from Essential Depot are the industry standards for purity. Food grade USP Kosher.

Best deal: 1 gallon each of PG and VG from Essential Depot, $54.59 with free shipping. That's 0.7¢/ml.
Link: 1 gal. PG & VG

Thank you
I guess it's time to get started

 

[LongDraw]

Bill, thanks for the info much appreicated. Think maybe I'll do one month, filter half and let the rest go for another month.

Already have one heat done on the other, two more to go

LongDraw,

I'm pretty sure you'll enjoy the process and be at least pleased, if not downright thrilled, with the results.

I've done a couple of stints as a beta-tester for MountainOakVapors (MOV), giving feedback on various NET-based liquids that Steve had in development. One of the insights that came out of Steve's email exchanges with me and his other beta-testers was that he was leaning toward extending the time frame of his cold macerations to allow more and deeper flavor infusion into the extract liquid. If I recall correctly, he wrote about moving from a one-month steep to a two-month steep before filtering.

As far as I'm concerned, no hard-and-fast rules exist for how long a tobacco maceration should steep. I began my first home-brewed NET as a cold-process, but after two weeks the liquid hadn't darkened sufficiently or become fragrant, so I shifted into heat-assisted mode.

You could start out with two weeks, then pour off and filter a tiny bit of the extract liquid (just couple milliliters would suffice for testing purposes). Make up some small batches of juice made from the test extract at different percentages and vape away. If you love the flavor, stop the steeping right then and filter the whole batch. If you're not absolutely tickled pink with the test juices, give the maceration another two weeks or even another month and a half. Longer can't hurt.

With heat-assisted macerations, I'm of the opinion that letting the maceration "rest" between slow, low-heat "cooks" is a good idea. Why? I don't know, it just feels right to me. Heat-assisted macerations take only 2-4 days from start to finish anyway, so adding an extra day strikes me as no big deal.

At the end of the day, you're the only judge of when the extract is "ready." Even the worst-case scenario (where the extract turns out less than wonderful) isn't tragic. Heck, we're talking about 15-20 grams of tobacco and a buck or two in PG/VG.

Scarfy's first extract (Montecristo) was such a stunning success that it gave me the confidence to try my own macerations, all three of which have turned out amazingly well. I mean, after all, this ain't rocket science. If you know your way around a kitchen and have a little food/cooking savvy under your belt, you'll do fine. We're all learning as we go...

 

[billherbst]

Time for a further report about my two new home-brewed NETs made from all-natural specialty cigarettes: Nat Sherman MCDs and American Spirit Organics.

As I wrote earlier, I couldn’t be more pleased with how they turned out. Both are terrific---naturally sweet (but not too much), with very authentic blended tobacco flavor, light in color, and clean-vaping. Neither is a coil-killer, which confirms my three-step filtering process. Both NETs use a 75PG/25VG base with no alcohol.

After numerous experiments, I settled on 11% as the ideal mix ratio for these. A lower percentage is acceptable---down to 6%, which maximizes their delicacy. More than about 15%, however, blunts their subtlety and muddies the flavor. Some vapers who love in-your-face flavor might use 15% or even more, but I seem to like a balance between clarity and potency best. Here, as with so much in DIY, less is more, at least for me. YMMV, of course.

My preference for the overall liquid composition of the DIY juice (meaning bases plus flavoring) is 20% PG, 72% VG, and 8% distilled water.

While both extracts are quite lovely on their own as single-flavoring DIY juices, I'm enjoying them most right now as Frankenjuiced hybrids.

Two blends are working very well for me. The first combines Nat Sherman MCD NET DIY juice with retail Liqua French Pipe in a 1:1 (or 50/50) ratio. Wow. The French Pipe is extremely flavorful and very tasty, but as a synthetic lacks authentic tobacco flavor, which the Nat Sherman MCD provides beautifully.

The second hybrid combines American Spirit Organic NET DIY juice in the same 1:1 ratio with retail American Spirit juice from FSUSA that uses a synthetic tobacco flavoring. My 30ml bottle of the FSUSA retail juice is 2 1/2 years old and still had 20mls left (still good, though). While that juice is a surprisingly good approximation of American Spirit tobacco, it’s still a synthetic, and I never loved it enough to vape on any consistent basis, so the bottle was archived in my juice stash. Mixing the FSUSA with the American Spirit Organic NET rejuvenates it deliciously and, of course, imparts the real-tobacco impact of the NET.

For the record, I don't look down my nose at synthetic, lab-based tobacco flavorings. They are a very interesting species, and the best synthetics are often pleasurable to vape. In general, though, synthetics not only don't taste like tobacco, they don't even approximate real tobacco flavors. But that's where NET hybrids shine.

With three very good all-natural cigarette-based NETs now, I’ll probably move on to aromatic cigar and/or pipe tobaccos.

 

[TBinAZ]

Great posts as usual, Bill. Talk about downright ..... lol! Good stuff, man.

Hey, have a question for you. You may have already covered this, but I have no idea where to look.

I have a small Rival "Little Dipper" that I do most of my NET extractions with. Works nice by the way. Keeps the heat just at food serving temp for however long you want, and is tiny.

But I also have a heated ultrasonic cleaner that I'm just now toying with to see if maybe the whole process can be accelerated. I have some green tea and PG in a small plastic jar that is roaming around in it as I type. The heat is not drastic and is still tolerable to the touch. The downfall is that the device only allows for 8 mins at a time with no way to change that.

Anyways, what kind of impact do you think this kind of device would have on a normal extraction process? I do know that it can strip the coating from some atomizers if not careful. Really knocks the stuff around.

 

[LongDraw]

Wanted to give an update. Just finished filtering my Borkim Riff Cherry Cavendish. For the initial filter or two, I would use a couple filters and only put half of the concentrate through each. Total I did 4 filters, the last consisted of a single unbleached coffee filter and all liquid made it through.

Right now it is sitting cause I have to leave, but will make up a test batch tomorrow.

I already have Sam's Flake ready and waiting for the first cook when I go to bed tonight. I split the tin up, so have about 25 grams in the jar, topped with all pg up to the top of the tobacco level.

So far a very fun and easy process. Looking forward to seeing how the cherry cavendish turned out.

If the cherry cavendish gunks coils quick I am thinking of ordering a double mesh filter and some syringe filters.

 

[billherbst]

Great posts as usual, Bill. Talk about downright ..... lol! Good stuff, man.

Hey, have a question for you. You may have already covered this, but I have no idea where to look.

I have a small Rival "Little Dipper" that I do most of my NET extractions with. Works nice by the way. Keeps the heat just at food serving temp for however long you want, and is tiny.

But I also have a heated ultrasonic cleaner that I'm just now toying with to see if maybe the whole process can be accelerated. I have some green tea and PG in a small plastic jar that is roaming around in it as I type. The heat is not drastic and is still tolerable to the touch. The downfall is that the device only allows for 8 mins at a time with no way to change that.

Anyways, what kind of impact do you think this kind of device would have on a normal extraction process? I do know that it can strip the coating from some atomizers if not careful. Really knocks the stuff around.

TB,

You've stumped me. The only experience I have with ultrasonic cleaners is with the little cheapie one I bought on a whim during a sale last year. As far as I can tell, the one I've got does absolutely nothing except hum/vibrate for three minutes when you press the On button. I've read that the good ultrasonic cleaners really do work, but that they're pricey, and that the cheap ones are effectively toys.

As to what yours might do used for an NET cook, I have no idea. Try it and see.

 

[LongDraw]

So, I had made 10 mls of the cherry cavendish at 10% flavoring. After steeping only one day the flavor is nice, cavendish comes out with hint of cherry.

I took 5 mls from this sample and added an additional 5%. I shook really well, and then dripped a little. Gonna give it a day to steep on its own, but looks like this will mix well at 10% on the light side and possibly 15% on the heavy side, may drop it 1 or 2% depending on how it tastes tomorrow.

Tonight will be the second cook of the Sams Flake, should be able to start filtering it Thursday morning.

So far this is pretty awesome. If this works this well for me I will actually have to decide whether to even mess with artificial tobaccos.

EDIT: Also, I never bought it but there is another site that sells extract for you to make your own DIY juices. They sell the extract for 5.99 I believe for 5mls, and suggest mixing at 25% give or take depending on the extract. Amazed and how much they charge after making my own.

 

[LongDraw]

Any consensus on the best way to extract coffee flavor?

I picked up some whole coffee beans and will ground them myself.

I am going through the thread again and looks like doing regular low setting cooks in a crock pot could lead to a burned coffee taste. I did see mention a quick zap in a microwave and then let sit. Gonna keep looking over the thread but wanted to see if anyone had any great results one way or another, maybe avoid trial/error for myself.

 

[scarf-ace]

Any consensus on the best way to extract coffee flavor?

I picked up some whole coffee beans and will ground them myself.

I am going through the thread again and looks like doing regular low setting cooks in a crock pot could lead to a burned coffee taste. I did see mention a quick zap in a microwave and then let sit. Gonna keep looking over the thread but wanted to see if anyone had any great results one way or another, maybe avoid trial/error for myself.

No consensus. I've not had any success at all with coffee. If you do, please let us know because I really want to get that right.

 

[billherbst]

No consensus. I've not had any success at all with coffee. If you do, please let us know because I really want to get that right.

Me too. I did a slow-cook but extremely low-heat maceration using primo home-roasted Sidamo Guji Ethiopian beans (ground, of course). The extract lacks flavor and has a horrible metallic side-taste. I might try another cold maceration, but I'm not confident.

 

[scarf-ace]

Me too. I did a slow-cook but extremely low-heat maceration using primo home-roasted Sidamo Guji Ethiopian beans (ground, of course). The extract lacks flavor and has a horrible metallic side-taste. I might try another cold maceration, but I'm not confident.

Mine is made from organic East Timorese coffee. It tastes like what it is, cold, stale coffee. I have a feeling that our collective experience of coffee as a hot fresh beverage is wrecking our expectations of what a coffee juice should be. Even when I crank up the heat on the atomizer it's dreadful.

I'm not giving up, but this might be one instance where the artificial flavor actually works better.

 

[Cool_Breeze]

I'm not giving up, but this might be one instance where the artificial flavor actually works better.

If it ain't skunk, it ain't coffee.

 

[scarf-ace]

If it ain't skunk, it ain't coffee.

I don't know what that means.

 

[LongDraw]

Thanks all, that's disappointing to hear. Was really hoping to have my own coffee extracts, successful one's that is Maybe I will ground some up and just try a few small samples a few different ways.

So far the tobacco is going well. I have a 30 ml of cherry cavendish steeping, gonna fill a tank of it saturday.

I am filtering sam's flake now. This filters much more slowly then the borkim riff canvendish.

I just got sam gawiths chocolate flake ready and it will do it's first cook tonight.

I also picked up a single mesh strainer. Figure this will make it easier to dump the initial strain through so it will be easier to then take the tobacco and put in a larger syringe to squeeze out the juice, rather than spooning it out of the mason jar.

Gonna see how clean these extracts are and then debate picking up some syringe filters. After reading some home brew beer forums I may go for micron filter between 1 and 5 microns. It looks like an average coffee filter is about 20, give or take, so I think 4 or 5 micron syringe filter would be a big jump if used and not worry about filtering out anything that could be part of the flavor. Looks like the beer forums a lot don't go below 1 micron.

 

[DoloresB]

I finished my first tobacco extraction today. I used 15 gm of Captain Black Gold (honey) pipe tobacco, and I used straight VG for the extraction. I strained it well, and let it cool, and couldn't wait to try just a bit of it before I put away to age. I put about 7 drops of this mix into a tank cartridge, and I know it went well, because I can taste honey and tobacco. Now let's see if I can patiently wait 2 weeks for this to age.

 

[billherbst]

Mine is made from organic East Timorese coffee. It tastes like what it is, cold, stale coffee. I have a feeling that our collective experience of coffee as a hot fresh beverage is wrecking our expectations of what a coffee juice should be.

You may be onto something there, scarfy. I was a coffee geek before I was a vaping geek, and I have a good prosumer set-up: an Expobar Brewtus II e-61 PID-controlled double boiler, high-quality Ascaso and Baratza Vario espresso grinders, a Behmor dedicated roaster (I roast about four pounds of beans one day each month), and online access to the best green coffee beans on the planet. I've been drinking wonderful cappuccino every day for the past seven years, so I could very possibly be spoiled rotten.

I'm not giving up, but this might be one instance where the artificial flavor actually works better.

Yes, despite the many lousy coffee juices/flavorings out there (I can attest to that, since I've bought about 50 of those), numerous others are extremely good. I have a drawer full of them and vape four or five every day. It's not like I need to make my own coffee extract. But then, I don't need to make my own tobacco extracts, either, but I do. Why? Because I like it. So, I'll probably try again with coffee. Maybe I'll use a coarser grind and all-VG.

Also, a couple days ago I ordered six one-ounce samples of pipe tobacco from Milan Tobacconists. Three aromatics, one non-aromatic, and two English-style (which contain some of the dreaded Latakia). Reports will be upcoming in the weeks ahead.

 

[Dammage]

A thought / question
If extracting from coffee beans does the juice contain caffeine? If so does that transfer into the vapor? Can you get a caffeine buzz with your nicotine buzz in the same vapor?

 

[scarf-ace]

You may be onto something there, scarfy. I was a coffee geek before I was a vaping geek, and I have a good prosumer set-up: an Expobar Brewtus II e-61 PID-controlled double boiler, high-quality Ascaso and Baratza Vario espresso grinders, a Behmor dedicated roaster (I roast about four pounds of beans one day each month), and online access to the best green coffee beans on the planet. I've been drinking wonderful cappuccino every day for the past seven years, so I could very possibly be spoiled rotten.

Yes, despite the many lousy coffee juices/flavorings out there (I can attest to that, since I've bought about 50 of those), numerous others are extremely good. I have a drawer full of them and vape four or five every day. It's not like I need to make my own coffee extract. But then, I don't need to make my own tobacco extracts, either, but I do. Why? Because I like it. So, I'll probably try again with coffee. Maybe I'll use a coarser grind and all-VG.

Also, a couple days ago I ordered six one-ounce samples of pipe tobacco from Milan Tobacconists. Three aromatics, one non-aromatic, and two English-style (which contain some of the dreaded Latakia). Reports will be upcoming in the weeks ahead.

Ooh, excited to hear about your new experiments. I'm going to look for some good tobacco in Sydney this weekend.

Maybe roasted coffee is what is getting us into trouble. I mean everyone knows how lousy reheated coffee is, but isn't that what we are doing to our coffee juices? Heating it to roast, heating it to extract it, and then heating it again (and again, and again) to vape it. It's likely that the delicious aromatic compounds that make coffee taste so good can't take the repeated drastic temperature changes and break down into yuckiness.
Bill you are obviously the coffee roasting guru among us. I don't even know if this would work, but could you make a small extraction of green unroasted beans? I'm not even certain if green coffee beans taste like anything at all. Maybe extra-extra-extra lightly roasted beans? I admit, it's a far ways to go for a coffee vape, but us obsessive types don't mind that, do we?

A thought / question
If extracting from coffee beans does the juice contain caffeine? If so does that transfer into the vapor? Can you get a caffeine buzz with your nicotine buzz in the same vapor?

It'll have a tiiiiiny amount of caffeine. Not enough to buzz you unless you vape too much of it, then you have got worse things than lack of buzz to worry about.