So Enough Already with the "You must do this" "You must buy that" Attitude

[Zealous]

kayfun, T3S, mini PT II... pretty much any tank that needs a vacuum to work right, the P&C just didn't wick well. But I'm certainly going to try it again, in my Caterpillar! The coils I build for it are so large (diameter) that it shouldn't even be a problem getting it threaded into the coil, using a piece of wire.

Andria

Hm, well that's good to know. I never recoiled my evods since I kept having issues with grommets tearing (that was really annoying) so my only experience with a tank & yarn was the Kayfun. I did try with it for several months though before I concluded that I didn't like it & moved to a REO.

Wicking with yarn is easy peasy once you've determined what you need for the diameter coil you're using. I personally wrap a 1/15 micro coil & use 2 strands of yarn for the wicking. It's a good fit, not too tight or loose.

 

[bluecat]

I just can't imagine spending the same for any vape thing as I would spend for almost a month's worth of groceries. One of the things I like best about vaping is the opportunity to SAVE money... not spend even more!!!

Besides which, it's not the mod that determines the quality of the vape, it's whatever you put on top. I'd far rather spend $30-$40 on a mod, and get a REAL kayfun... which I can't afford yet, but probably will someday.

Andria

It is all about the atty. People can talk voltage drops.. silver, copper, stainless, brass or plastic. They all deliver the same thing minutely differently, power. The atty is what determines how the liquid will be changed to vapor for us to process.

My wife spends 180 on groceries a week.

 

[AndriaD]

So true, I can't get that kind of mod myself but I might be able to swing a clone , I'd love a real kayfun also I'm using the clone now myself. Also have you tried the taifun clone very nice vape

I've heard that, but for some reason I'm hesitant.. is the TF a dual-coil thingie? Really dislike duals, I even do a single coil in my caterpillar.

Andria

 

[AndriaD]

It is all about the atty. People can talk voltage drops.. silver, copper, stainless, brass or plastic. They all deliver the same thing minutely differently, power. The atty is what determines how the liquid will be changed to vapor for us to process.

My wife spends 180 on groceries a week.

We don't spend that much for half a month... if we did, we'd have to trade in the truck for a bike. (a bicycle, not a motorcycle!)

And I'm completely with you about the atty... my T3S tanks vape pretty much the same whether they're on an eGo-C Twist, a vv3, or a Sigelei zmax v3... and my kayfuns are brilliant no matter which of those I put them on.

The only thing that ever made a bit of diff in the kanger tanks, for quality of vape, was using organic cotton. And even the kayfun wasn't all that great, until I got some organic cotton!

Andria

 

[Fir3b1rd]

I just can't imagine spending the same for any vape thing as I would spend for almost a month's worth of groceries. One of the things I like best about vaping is the opportunity to SAVE money... not spend even more!!!

Besides which, it's not the mod that determines the quality of the vape, it's whatever you put on top. I'd far rather spend $30-$40 on a mod, and get a REAL kayfun... which I can't afford yet, but probably will someday.

Andria

Ok; I'm at a loss for words on this. I understand the not wanting to spend the money on a provari; or, any mod. Provari is not the most expensive thing out there, not by a long shot. It's in the middle rung now a days.
Price out of the equation.
And I am seriously not trying to argue; but, to say that the mod has no effect on the vape? Saying it's all the atty? I don't see it.
In my opinion; It's neither one solely.
If you have an unregulated mod- it'll hit at what,4.1v right off the charger; then, gradually work it's way down to 3.3v-3,2v, before it has to go back on. Throughout that entire cycle the voltage is dropping. A 2ohm coil won't perform the same at 3.3V as it did at 4.1; hence, the vape is effected. At least it was to me. I was either throwing it on and off the charger all day or swapping it out. I could taste and feel the difference. Hence, I went and got a regulated mod. The vape was much better with the same topper.
Again- it's neither one solely but a combination of the two. At least that's the way I see it.
And in my opinion both my black edition KFL and my Ehpro KFL V2 gives me a better flavor and vape than my authentic KFL. I think a good high quality clone is just as good or better than an authentic; especially when you are only dealing with machined parts and not electronics. I'm not saying expensive gear is a necessity or you have to get "x,y and z." As I've said earlier I have my girl on an MVP and Tumblr- she loves it!
I'm just having a problem with the concept of the mod not effecting the vape; that's almost counterproductive to everything that's been said in this entire thread.
It doesn't matter what you vape with. Vape with what you want; but, the mod doesn't effect the vape. If that we're true, I doubt there would be such a wide array of items available; because, the customer base wouldn't be there. 3 of us from ECF's HHV Thread met up Yesterday and we were vaping off of 5 different set ups- 3 of which had KFLs on them; one was on an SVD, one on mech with a Sony vtc4 batt, and then the provari. They all performed differenly. Same topper different mod.
Then we had a few drippers. We put the drippers on those same three and again 3 different vapes. One needs the other. The way the mod delivers the power changes the vape. If the vape is produced by a resistive coil getting hot enough to evaporate the liquid; it stands to conclude, that the delivery of the power and evaporative process would effect the vape.
I'm not saying any mod is better than another; or, any power delivery system is better than another. I'm just saying that they do effect the vape.
Which is the very reason so any choices exist.

If the mod delivers the power that evaporated the vape; how would the mod not matter?
I'm lost......


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bluecat]

Ok; I'm at a loss for words on this. I understand the not wanting to spend the money on a provari; or, any mod. Provari is not the most expensive thing out there, not by a long shot. It's in the middle rung now a days.
Price out of the equation.
And I am seriously not trying to argue; but, to say that the mod has no effect on the vape? Saying it's all the atty? I don't see it.
In my opinion; It's neither one solely.
If you have an unregulated mod- it'll hit at what,4.1v right off the charger; then, gradually work it's way down to 3.3v-3,2v, before it has to go back on. Throughout that entire cycle the voltage is dropping. A 2ohm coil won't perform the same at 3.3V as it did at 4.1; hence, the vape is effected. At least it was to me. I was either throwing it on and off the charger all day or swapping it out. I could taste and feel the difference. Hence, I went and got a regulated mod. The vape was much better with the same topper.
Again- it's neither one solely but a combination of the two. At least that's the way I see it.
And in my opinion both my black edition KFL and my Ehpro KFL V2 gives me a better flavor and vape than my authentic KFL. I think a good high quality clone is just as good or better than an authentic; especially when you are only dealing with machined parts and not electronics. I'm not saying expensive gear is a necessity or you have to get "x,y and z." As I've said earlier I have my girl on an MVP and Tumblr- she loves it!
I'm just having a problem with the concept of the mod not effecting the vape; that's almost counterproductive to everything that's been said in this entire thread.
It doesn't matter what you vape with. Vape with what you want; but, the mod doesn't effect the vape. If that we're true, I doubt there would be such a wide array of items available; because, the customer base wouldn't be there. 3 of us from ECF's HHV Thread met up Yesterday and we were vaping off of 5 different set ups- 3 of which had KFLs on them; one was on an SVD, one on mech with a Sony vtc4 batt, and then the provari. They all performed differenly. Same topper different mod.
Then we had a few drippers. We put the drippers on those same three and again 3 different vapes. One needs the other. The way the mod delivers the power changes the vape. If the vape is produced by a resistive coil getting hot enough to evaporate the liquid; it stands to conclude, that the delivery of the power and evaporative process would effect the vape.
If the mod delivers the power that evaporated the vape; how would the mod not matter?
I'm lost......


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In your scenario it has nothing to do with the mod, it has to do with battery drain. As the battery drain so will the power no matter what mech you are on. Comparing a regulated device with a mech is not necessarily a good comparison. Compare a mech with a mech. Or heck, throw a kick in the mech and you now have a regulated device.

KFLs are rebuildables correct? Where they all built the same? Ohms? Wick? Wiring? Liquid? % of PG VG? 2 were on regulated devices.. were they at the same volts? Or was the SVD in watt mode? Was the SVD stacked? Too many variables unless you passed the topper along to vape the same juice for the same topper on all devices.

The mod is built to hold a battery that gives power. The mod itself is a conductor of that power. Yes there will be some slight difference. Most users cannot tell this slight difference.

I have an MVP too and enjoy it. I enjoy all of mine... well except to $70 starter kit I bought a couple years ago. I own a couple nechs a couple apvs and various ego types and cigalikes...

 

[Ryedan]

Well if you just went ahead and got a Provari and learned how to build a coil no one would have to tell you any of this.

It was joke.

I thought so. I've found if you put a : lol : a couple of lines under your text people typically get it. Like so:

 

[Fir3b1rd]

In your scenario it has nothing to do with the mod, it has to do with battery drain. As the battery drain so will the power no matter what mech you are on. Comparing a regulated device with a mech is not necessarily a good comparison. Compare a mech with a mech. Or heck, throw a kick in the mech and you now have a regulated device.

KFLs are rebuildables correct? Where they all built the same? Ohms? Wick? Wiring? Liquid? % of PG VG? 2 were on regulated devices.. were they at the same volts? Or was the SVD in watt mode? Was the SVD stacked? Too many variables unless you passed the topper along to vape the same juice for the same topper on all devices.

The mod is built to hold a battery that gives power. The mod itself is a conductor of that power. Yes there will be some slight difference. Most users cannot tell this slight difference.

I have an MVP too and enjoy it. I enjoy all of mine... well except to $70 starter kit I bought a couple years ago. I own a couple nechs a couple apvs and various ego types and cigalikes...

Ummm the phrase where I said one was a mech, one was an svd and one was a provari- that was the experience yesterday. The other statement of a mod being a power delivery system and the way each mod delivers the power- was meant to cover all circumstances. The kfls being set the same and the mods being different was my point.
You just made my point for me- the mod does
Matter.
And yes the kfls were wicked and coiled the same- cotton with a 1.5 ohm coil.
We were playing pass the dripper as we were sharing juice for each other to try. Wanted them to try first batch of DIY.
I'm not in favor of any one mod; I have my preference. I love the MVP; and had one till it got swiped; and, then got my provari to replace it. Another poster made the statement that all mods vape the same. I was making the point that the statement is totally not true.
Different strokes for different folks. I enjoy the occasional high power vape; but, on a daily all day basis it's not my cup of tea.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bunnykiller]

I just posted this in a thread on the New Members forum, but I've been thinking about starting a thread about it for a while.



So have at it folks, what's with the repeated condescension and bashing of people who don't want to or can't (for whatever reason) vape the same way you do?

Some people are just fine with cigalikes, or an ego with disposable toppers.

Some people don't want, or can't afford, a Provari or a Reo.

Some people don't want to or can't do coil rebuilding.

Some people don't like carto tanks.

Some people don't like clearos.

Some people enjoy DIY, others don't.

People like different equipment, flavors, or ratios, or suppliers. So why not phrase your preferences as just that, preferences, instead of all the "you gottas" that are so common here. Why not try to help people with whatever problem they are asking about, instead of insulting them for having that problem, or that equipment.

Excuse me for a minute while I find a ladder so I can get down off of this high horse now.

See there ya go... you really need to try a giraffe, now thats really high... and you will definately need a ladder to get off your hi giraffe

 

[JaysunR]

I honestly don't care what another person wants to personally use as far as vaping. I look at it this way, with analogs, you have cigarettes, snuff, dip, cigars, pipes, roll your own, filtered, filterless etc.. basically different options. I see it as a good thing that there are different options when vaping. Not everyone is looking to be a long term vaper and turn it into a hobby or cloud chase. There's perfectly nothing wrong with making it a hobby or to cloud chase, but don't expect everyone to be into it. For some folks Cig-A-Likes are perfect for them same for eGo style, hybrids, full on mods etc... I just see certain things picking up trends, I just ignore those folks.

 

[Ryedan]

If the mod delivers the power that evaporated the vape; how would the mod not matter?
I'm lost......

I hear ya TOny3, but I also agree the mod matters a lot less than the topper to your vape performance.

I would also not compare regulated to mechanical setups. They are quite different because of the power drop off that the topper needs to be setup to handle.

Looking at regulated mods, you have differences in PWM frequency and you have differing power drop under load and power drop as the battery runs down. Not everyone notices the difference in PWM frequency. If you adjust the power so each device is delivering the same under load, I can't tell the difference in the vape between a eGo Twist, a Spinner or a Vmax rotating the same atty through them all. I've never tried a MVP or Provari, so I don't know if I would be able to tell the difference in PWM frequency. However I vape mech mods pretty much all the time these days (no PWM on these puppies) and it doesn't bother me to vape a clearo on a eGo if that's what I feel like vaping for a night out.

We've had threads about this here before. The majority of people agree the topper has more influence on your vape than the power supply.

In the end though, whatever works for you is good. Vape on


ETA: Don't know how I got the quote ID messed up, but I fixed it.

 

[Uma]

Perhaps I just interpret responses differently but I don't ever recall a condescending post here concerning another person's vaping choices or habits.

I still drag out my Joye 510's every now and then. Go ahead... ridicule me. I dare you all!

Some of the most patient and helpful folks I've come across reside here at ECF.

I feel the same way.
If the poster says no money limits, I'll definitely put in a word for the Provari.
I am one of "those people" who recommends RBA's and YouTube tutorials to prepare for the zombie FDA apocalypse after they have enough of their favorite clearos stocked up. Everyone needs to learn self reliance in this day and age.

Off to read the rest of the thread.

 

[bluecat]

Ummm the phrase where I said one was a mech, one was an svd and one was a provari- that was the experience yesterday. The other statement of a mod being a power delivery system and the way each mod delivers the power- was meant to cover all circumstances. The kfls being set the same and the mods being different was my point.
You just made my point for me- the mod does
Matter.
And yes the kfls were wicked and coiled the same- cotton with a 1.5 ohm coil.
We were playing pass the dripper as we were sharing juice for each other to try. Wanted them to try first batch of DIY.
I'm not in favor of any one mod; I have my preference. I love the MVP; and had one till it got swiped; and, then got my provari to replace it. Another poster made the statement that all mods vape the same. I was making the point that the statement is totally not true.
Different strokes for different folks. I enjoy the occasional high power vape; but, on a daily all day basis it's not my cup of tea.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You stated

If you have an unregulated mod- it'll hit at what,4.1v right off the charger; then, gradually work it's way down to 3.3v-3,2v, before it has to go back on. Throughout that entire cycle the voltage is dropping. A 2ohm coil won't perform the same at 3.3V as it did at 4.1; hence, the vape is effected. At least it was to me. I was either throwing it on and off the charger all day or swapping it out. I could taste and feel the difference. Hence, I went and got a regulated mod. The vape was much better with the same topper.

Yes the voltage is dropping so the vape will be affected. You stated both unregulated an regulated.

Yes I know 2 were apvs and 1 a mech. A SVD, Provari and mech. One which is vv/vw, the other solely vv and mech is well a mech. Battery power the same on all, I assume throughout the session. So you passed one KLF to each other and the voltage sent to the KFL was noticeable to each person through the vape?

Aye agreed different strokes to different folks. Current flows... Current doesn't care. The minor discrepancy in conductivity of metals is irrelevant to the power a battery will give for us to notice our vapes, unless you are sub ohming/doing the extremes.
3.7v is 3.7 volts whether it comes from a mech, provari or apv. The 800 mhz may be noticeable by a small few or those that since they have it think they can tell it. I can tell only a subtle difference when going from my volts to the mech sans kick. I don't high power vape, I see no reason for me too.

 

[Fir3b1rd]

I hear ya bman, but I also agree the mod matters a lot less than the topper to your vape performance.

I would also not compare regulated to mechanical setups. They are quite different because of the power drop off that the topper needs to be setup to handle.

Looking at regulated mods, you have differences in PWM frequency and you have differing power drop under load and power drop as the battery runs down. Not everyone notices the difference in PWM frequency. If you adjust the power so each device is delivering the same under load, I can't tell the difference in the vape between a eGo Twist, a Spinner or a Vmax rotating the same atty through them all. I've never tried a MVP or Provari, so I don't know if I would be able to tell the difference in PWM frequency. However I vape mech mods pretty much all the time these days (no PWM on these puppies) and it doesn't bother me to vape a clearo on a eGo if that's what I feel like vaping for a night out.

We've had threads about this here before. The majority of people agree the topper has more influence on your vape than the power supply.

In the end though, whatever works for you is good. Vape on

Yeah I'm one of those that can taste the difference between a 33hz chip and a higher frequency.
23 years as a professional chef gave me a sensitive enough palet to pick up most things that change taste. It sucks sometimes cause it makes me dislike some juices- I love strawberries and cream; but, some versions just taste dreadful to me and my girl can't tell a difference- Go figure.
That said the 33 chip( only tried it on a vamo) tasted all burnt; enough for me to never give it a second chance. The MVP is at 730 if I remember right and I LOVED it; still do. Then the provari is at 800 just tastes smooth; as does the dna30.
But in the end my argument wasn't to any preference of mod; it was to the concept that the mod does change the vape. I have nothing against an ego and clearo I still keep a clearo on me as back up- they always work. I still have three egos- none work but one these days I'll find the time to solder the heads back on- lol.
Again I have my personal preference but that's what it is- what I prefer for me. I don't care what someone else vapes on if it puts a smile on there face and not a cig. I was just having an issue with the blanket statement of mods not effecting vape. It takes two: the mod on the bottom and something fun on top.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Fir3b1rd]

You stated

If you have an unregulated mod- it'll hit at what,4.1v right off the charger; then, gradually work it's way down to 3.3v-3,2v, before it has to go back on. Throughout that entire cycle the voltage is dropping. A 2ohm coil won't perform the same at 3.3V as it did at 4.1; hence, the vape is effected. At least it was to me. I was either throwing it on and off the charger all day or swapping it out. I could taste and feel the difference. Hence, I went and got a regulated mod. The vape was much better with the same topper.

Yes the voltage is dropping so the vape will be affected. You stated both unregulated an regulated.

Yes I know 2 were apvs and 1 a mech. A SVD, Provari and mech. One which is vv/vw, the other solely vv and mech is well a mech. Battery power the same on all, I assume throughout the session. So you passed one KLF to each other and the voltage sent to the KFL was noticeable to each person through the vape?

Aye agreed different strokes to different folks. Current flows... Current doesn't care. The minor discrepancy in conductivity of metals is irrelevant to the power a battery will give for us to notice our vapes, unless you are sub ohming/doing the extremes.
3.7v is 3.7 volts whether it comes from a mech, provari or apv. The 800 mhz may be noticeable by a small few or those that since they have it think they can tell it. I can tell only a subtle difference when going from my volts to the mech sans kick. I don't high power vape, I see no reason for me too.

I high power once in a blue moon- I don't own a mod capable of it; but a buddy does and yes i taste a huge difference. Some juices it's good on; others not so much. But it is fun.
Ad I'm gonna stand by my argument that the mod matters; because of the science and my personal
Experience.
As for a mech. I don't own one and have rarely vaped on them and maybe that's why I can tell- it's just that rare that the difference sticks out to me. And, I do really enjoy it; would love to have one; but it's a bad idea for me to have a mech in my pocket all day, so it'll stay one of those things that I wish I could have.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Anjaffm]

.. All I understand from this discussion is that if you cannot tell the difference anyway, there is not need to spend the money on a Provari.

I have a genny penny, a lavatube mini, a VMax, an Evic - and an X-Cube, bought to complement my lovely Amber Ice drip tip from Molehill Mountain. That is mods enough for me.

When I go out, I use the eGo type batteries. Small, pretty, most of them VV, some silver plated with engraving, others blood red velvety looking to complement my blood red velvety looking EVOD, some ESCO batteries in different colors which feel so nice in the hand - useful, pretty and matching my clothes and my jewelry. That is fashionable enough for me.

I know that this Provari has everything. Including probably an automatic nose picker. A lot of things that I will never ever use. I do not even use most of the features on the Evic. But I like the fact that it holds batteries up to 3400 mAh. Less changing batteries that way. And I have no intention of paying a lot of money for a mod, for features that I will never ever use.

With all my pretty vaping gear, I am one of the cool kids already. And I get a lot of compliments, also - and especially - by non-vapers. The nicest was (blood red vaping gear) "Oh, that goes so beautifully with your ring!" - from a complete non-smoker, a retired doctor who complimented me on my healthier choice.

I hope that I will not make any enemies now by stating quite bluntly that no, I will not spend a lot of my money for features that I will never ever use, spend that money just to be one of the cool kids among fellow vapers.

My 2 cents on this "get a Provari" discussion. Buy me one - I will use it. For my money - no way.

 

[Fir3b1rd]

WoW- it's not worth it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CKCalmer]

A specific example of a feature which I've completely fallen in love with - and which I might advise to a new member if they showed such interest - would be the ability to make the first second of my vape hit at 7.0w. Then, just before it begins to burn my precious (and frustratingly delicate) Black Ice e-juice, drop the hit to 6.2w, and then hang there for two more seconds. And then, once more, just before the vape gets a bit too warm for my taste, to drop it down to 5.4w for the rest of a ten second timeout. (Even though I'm usually done around 5-6 seconds, myself.)

To do that with my eGo by clumsily riding the "down" button as I inhale my vape (which risks going back around to 15w if I go down one step too many), or with my Triton by dialing the dial in (hopefully) the correct direction, it's soooo much nicer to have the device do all that automatically, leaving me to simply press and hold the fire button. Especially since I want all the juice in my tank (it's all the same kind of juice, after all) to have just the same power curve every time, no matter how long each inhale lasts.

0-1s 7.0w > 1-3s 6.2w > 3-10s 5.4w .... Mmmm, pure perfection with my Black Ice on a 2.9Ω coil, every single time!

And a completely different profile for my much more robust Halo menthol mix, of course.

But I would obviously NOT push such a thing on a vaper who doesn't want or need such a sensitive level of control. New vapors? Of course not. If they've been vaping a couple of months, and want to possibly expand into such a realm? Then that would be the right time to advise it as a feature to consider. Just as a mech/RDA setup would probably not be right for a first-time vaper who doesn't specifically ask about mechs and RDAs, but rather "What should I start with for a simple eGo/tank setup?".

Then again, it's harder with a vaper - new or experienced - who doesn't lay out some parameters for us to work with. Budget, type of device, features, etc. We do see that happen from time to time, not getting enough info from the requester. You folks more than I, as I am just beginning to venture out of the newbie realm, myself.

Without some guidelines, all the widely varying advice just becomes a big, confusing hurricane to an advice seeker.

 

[Myrany]

WoW- it's not worth it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Au COntraire mon ami.....WoW is worth every penny of the $15 a month it costs me. Were it not that my international phone bills would be in the hundreds of dollars. (Yes I am teasing a bit here)

Anja - Just my 2cents on the provari debate. For A European the Provari comes with some costs that US residents do not have like VAT taxes and international shipping rates. Also it is not quite so simple to just send it back to Provape to get warranty repairs done which somewhat negates the warranty. THe one thing the Provari does that your Evic does not other than that Warranty is the high level of chip cycling. I personally CAN tell a difference in the vape. By comparison the Vamos vape is much harsher to me. Frankly were I in Europe I probably would not have ordered a Provari and instead got another well made variable device that I could get my hands on without all the extra expense.

TO Everyone: Use what pleases you and works for you. The point is not smoking.

 

[Fir3b1rd]

Au COntraire mon ami.....WoW is worth every penny of the $15 a month it costs me. Were it not that my international phone bills would be in the hundreds of dollars. (Yes I am teasing a bit here)

Anja - Just my 2cents on the provari debate. For A European the Provari comes with some costs that US residents do not have like VAT taxes and international shipping rates. Also it is not quite so simple to just send it back to Provape to get warranty repairs done which somewhat negates the warranty. THe one thing the Provari does that your Evic does not other than that Warranty is the high level of chip cycling. I personally CAN tell a difference in the vape. By comparison the Vamos vape is much harsher to me. Frankly were I in Europe I probably would not have ordered a Provari and instead got another well made variable device that I could get my hands on without all the extra expense.

TO Everyone: Use what pleases you and works for you. The point is not smoking.

I had just given up trying to make my point. Maybe I went about it a wrong way to prove it. Or went overboard trying to stress the point that I wasn't saying any one mod is better than another.
Yes I use a provari- it is my ONLY mod- for now.

But the point is was trying to make was that the mod does in fact effect the vape; it's NOT solely dependent on the topper.

Thank you for confirming my observation without me having to pull out scopes and multimeters.
Thank you!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk