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2legsshrt

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I would like to get a dna but only because of all the possibilities and things you can change with it. And if I got one I like the Reauleux. I've read on the forum they can go for a day and a half or two days with all that battery power. Plus it looks like it would be really comfortable.
 
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funkyrudi

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Hey my NiFe48 coil is still working great and taste is still good. Not sure if I like the taste better then Ti but it tastes good. And I'm only up to 400F.
Some of my NiFe52/48 builds are almost 2 month old and still working great. I´m not able to taste differences between wires as far as the build is good. The reasons I use NiFe48 is 1. easy to make, wick and rewick 2. high Ohm/m for small atties like the GEM 3. I don`t have to think about Titanium O² 4. a lot of wire surface in big atomizers.

I tried several NiFe52 micro coils. It´s better than Ni200 and Titanium but not satisfying. MCs are tubes that have a problem getting enough liquid to the outside and so the wire gets hotter at the outside and the mod is working too much. MCs have been ok in the days of unregulated mods and thin wires, imho.
 

jackmormon

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I've only had the Nife48 for a few days and have done two builds. So far, extremely impressed. Both are using .4mm wire with a 2.5mm 6 wrap coil. A Crown on a DNA200 using a tightly spaced coil. A Bellus with a contact coil on a DNA40. Like funkyrudi, I don't notice much difference in taste. What I do notice is how easy the wire is to work with. Both coils were just hand wrapped and slightly adjusted. Haven't done a device monitor in Escribe yet but on a DNA40, I definitely like it better than TI. Much smoother ramp up and the ohms haven't budged. (On either.) On the DNA40, I am setting the temp 70F lower than the temp I am looking for. Will see how the re-wicking goes!

Question--Is the grey/black color after dry burning normal or desirable? I think I read something about it needing to be oxidized before use? I did the dry burns at 15W.
 

WileE

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Question--Is the grey/black color after dry burning normal or desirable? I think I read something about it needing to be oxidized before use? I did the dry burns at 15W.

@jackmormon - Yes the Black/Gray is normal. It was me that said to oxidize it in the post below.

Unlike Ni200 or Tit the NiFe 52 can & should be oxidized prior to use (This is a good thing). It is a mandatory if configured as either a contact coil or Clapton. IE everything I build!!

If you try to dry burn NiFe like it's Kanthal you'll just burn the legs right off. It takes a different technique to get them dry pulsed & successfully glowing inside out.
It makes sense if you consider a kanthal coil typically has a final resistance 4+ x higher then the NiFe 52 so a hot leg/arch on a .4 Kanthal might bring it down to a .15Ω, whereas a hot leg on a .12Ω NiFe might fire at .05 & I've had a .1Ω target (unoxidized) NiFe 52 contact coil (pictured) so low without pre-torching it wouldn't even fire to try dry pulsing.

Uwell Crown RBA 26ga parallel .1Ω would not fire on DNA to pulse, unoxidized ohms below DNA safety limit.
View attachment 502510


I now wrap the coils first & then torch before installing (I have the exact torch dwcraig1 just posted a pic of). I then dry pulse in watt mode starting at 10 watts till its acting right. Then for good measure pulse a few times at 30+ watts to make sure it's glowing reliably middle out. If I don't have a torch with me I just start pulsing with 5 - 10 watts.

TheothersteveS beat me to it with the description of torching.



The only thing I do differently is to wrap the coils first and then torch. I did the same test as TheothersteveS torching the hell out of a straight piece & then wiped with IPA to confirm no residue resulted from torching. The rational for torching after wrapping is that I don't want to damage the newly oxidized surface when winding the coil with my coil-master. I polished the serrations off the hex screws that guide the wire around the mandrels, but they still leave a stripe if I pre-torch the wire & then wind.

1st pic torching a NiFe Reactor coil.
View attachment 502515



2nd pic. coil pair 26ga Reactor NiFe 52 one is oxidized with torch shown with unoxidized match & Black mandrel background for Color Ref. NiFe 52 is dark Gray/Blue after torching & color lightens when dry pulsing
View attachment 502516


3rd Picture (Compressor coils) showing how color lightens when dry pulsing. Had to replace the one on the right. I zapped a leg off while pulsing on a series mech @ 300+ watts.

Coil on the left has been torched & dry pulsed. Coil on the right has been torched only.

My theory is that torching creates oxide by heating from the exterior, whereas pulsing heats from within causing additional oxide formation (druckle thoughts? Am I off the reservation here?)

View attachment 502521


If NiFe 52 contact type coils are not oxidized the resistance will be low & or erratic. Of coarse same goes for good old A1 kanthal (pre-torching & dry pulsing was the key to success when Kanthal micro coils first caught on).


For spaced NiFe 52 coils (including single wire core claptons) I've seen the initial unoxidized cold resistance match the final resistance after oxidizing.
From that it would seem OK to run a spaced NiFe without pre-torching or dry pulsing, however:
  1. the emissivity would be significantly lower on a bright polished coil vs oxidized & may result in a cooler then expected vape??
    People are always gushing over how much warmer the vape & faster ramp times with Nichrome 80 vs Kanthal.
    FWIW - emissivity, fully oxidized condition for A1 Kanthal is .70, for Nichrome 80 it's 25% higher @ .88, & for NiFe 52 also .88
    I'd love love to have some of the experts on here share their knowledge on the topic of emissivity & and its affect on our application. How does it correlate to heat flux on Steam Engine?
  2. I am of the opinion that the safety level of one coil alloy vs another in our wet application is directly tied to the below characteristics of the oxidized layer formed prior to use. This is not a complete list, but may provoke some good discussion.
  • Oxide layers performance as an electrical insulator. (Will the coil perform as micro coil/Clapton?)
  • Oxide layer formation. (Does the process of oxide formation result in flaky crust or sooty residue that may be soluble in the e-juice?)
  • Oxide layers ability to heal itself when damaged or spalled off. (How many times can you dry burn before oxide can no longer regenerate?) There is a limit with Kanthal A1 & you can tell when you've hit it.
  • Oxide layers coefficient of thermal expansion vs that of the base metal. (Is the likely-hood of oxide spallation increased due to dissimilar expansion coefficients & heat pulse cycling?)
  • Oxide layers ability to bond to the base metal. (Ability to prevent boundary layer infiltration from liquid, moisture, & vapor; thus preventing or allowing oxide layer fracturing & spallation due to boundary layer vapor pressure when heated.)
  • Oxide layers grain structure how fine or coarse. (How well does it protect base metal from corrosive oxidation?) & (Does the oxide layer effectively seal the base metal, thus preventing any leaching?)
  • Oxide layers malleability. (How delicate is it? Will it be easily damaged when wicking?)
In a future post I'll try to plug all the available TC wires into the above oxide layer characteristic/questionnaire.
 
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dwcraig1

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So with the Zif NiFe48 does one use the SteamEngines Kanthal NiFe52 CSV?
Here is why I ask, I was expecting the temp to climb much higher.
12243557_1103301306360759_863363457551912702_n.jpg
 
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dwcraig1

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^^something def wrong thére, you should be getting to yer sét temp or very close even at 28 watts. how about some info on yer coil and all the juicy details.
Here: 7.5 wraps, 2.7 mm id, 26 gauge NiFe48, 75/25 juice. Rayon in Subtank RBA v2
 
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AtmizrOpin

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make sure yer using the right csv. the only things i can thing of are: yer baseline res is higher than it actually is, tcr is too high, the price of tea in china is about to fall.

EDIT.... i see the words 'subtank' and 'mini'. i dont use mine anymore cause of the fluctuating res. worked awesome when i first got em then as time went on threads got worn and reliability regarding res went out the window, even with kanthal.
 
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WileE

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@dwcraig1 - Ok your the second person with this issue using NiFe 52. Both you & Landman have had a similar issue with 2 different NiFe's yours with Ziv & Landman with Reactor Wire. Coincidentally your builds are almost identical& both on Sub Tank RBA's
Here: 7.5 wraps, 2.7 mm id, 26 gauge NiFe48, 75/25 juice. Rayon in Subtank RBA v2

@dwcraig1 - Since it's a Subtank RBA it would either be 7 or 8 wraps (legs go opposite directions means whole wraps) If you had 7 wraps then your build should be .24Ω & Landmans build below would have also been almost exactly .24Ω also albeit with 1 less wrap because the Reactor wire has more resistance.

It was a 2.75mm coil, 6 wrap, 26 ga. Used a coil master, no annealing at the start. After making the coil, used a torch to anneal and did it repeatedly, making it glow for quite a while. After it cooled, changed it to a spaced coil. Mounted the coil and dry fired several times to make sure it glowed properly, then wicked with rayon.


FWIW, I stuck a coil of the Vape Vine NiFe52/Reactor wire in a STplus and it started jumping out of TC using the SE curve. I set the TCR and it seemed to work better although the temp seemed low.

The Common denominator here is the Sub-Tank RBA Platform

One other thing that may cause a ST RBA to jump out of TC mode is that the 510 center pin in the lower portion of the tank is press fit so if your tank ever had a disposable coil head even a couple thousands deeper then the rest it pushes the pin down slightly. Then if the RBA deck is a few thou shallower then the disposable heads the positive pin bottom might not have good contact with the top of the center pin. I Had this happen on a Crown Tank.

The DNA boards are extremely sensitive to connection issues so try unscrewing the RBA deck 1 turn & then use a punch or something to push the 510 pin up into the bottom of the ST base, then screw the RBA deck back down and give it a try.
 

AtmizrOpin

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Yes, CSV as it comes. Not sure how your counting your wraps though.
i dunno what happened but looks like yer good to go. looks like yer STM is doing what mine started to do. my wraps? i guess i start counting when i complete one revolution of a wire around a bit. is that what yer askin?
 

dwcraig1

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i dunno what happened but looks like yer good to go. looks like yer STM is doing what mine started to do. my wraps? i guess i start counting when i complete one revolution of a wire around a bit. is that what yer askin?
Legs pointing in opposite directions is a half wrap, same direction is just about a full wrap in most cases.
My STM always has a bit less temp but not usually that much. Perhaps tomorrow I'll coil up my TGS2-22 with it and see how that goes.
The reason for doing it was to see if flavor was any different and I'd say it's the same. Good.
 

vapealone

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So with the Zif NiFe48 does one use the SteamEngines Kanthal NiFe52 CSV?
Here is why I ask, I was expecting the temp to climb much higher.
12243557_1103301306360759_863363457551912702_n.jpg

This actually looks quite all right save for the temp reading. But the fact that it is leveling down is a good thing IMO. How does it vape?

Here is my TGT2 with pretty much the exact same coil, CSV and mod.
12119003_1103310563026500_3725683561290540706_n.jpg

I couldn't help but realized that you got a 0.03(ish) cold ohms difference between the 2 that could be because of the slightly different builds or that on the subtank the cold ohms reading went off.
Why don't you tick the live ohm check-box too and plot your live ohms on both of the attys when vape?
 

dwcraig1

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This actually looks quite all right save for the temp reading. But the fact that it is leveling down is a good thing IMO. How does it vape?



I couldn't help but realized that you got a 0.03(ish) cold ohms difference between the 2 that could be because of the slightly different builds or that on the subtank the cold ohms reading went off.
Why don't you tick the live ohm check-box too and plot your live ohms on both of the attys when vape?
Well I'm at work now, I have the Subtank here but the TGT2 is back at home. Tomorrow I guess.
 
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