TC beyond Ni200: Nickel Purity, Dicodes; Ti, SS, Resistherm NiFe30; Coefficient of Resistance

[vapealone]

I do believe he was taking into account the capabilities of the chip. We know from past experience dna chips are really good on battery. We also know that YiHi isn't quite as good. I can speak from first hand experience that a single battery DNA40 is still pretty good compared to a dual battery SX350J.....

Could be the case.
I just don't really like mixing untold (unfounded?) parameters, factors with simple numbers even if they are nominal numbers.

Besides, my unfounded and strickly amateurish guess is that Yihi's battery issues is the result of the board actually measures battery voltage real time, under load.
Unfortunately, our batts have a significant and load-dependent initial voltage drop under load. As a result, your V can easily drop below cut off under load but if you take the batt out and check the V it will be above.
If this is the case with Yihi it would mean quite a reduction in achievable output. But like I said, I don't know.

Edit: you can play with the volt meter a lot in VW/Bypass mode

 

[Madnapali]

Could be the case.
I just don't really like mixing untold (unfounded?) parameters, factors with simple numbers even if they are nominal numbers.

Besides, my unfounded and strickly amateurish guess is that Yihi's battery issues is the result of the board actually measures battery voltage real time, under load.
Unfortunately, our batts have a significant and load-dependent initial voltage drop under load. As a result, your V can easily drop below cut off under load but if you take the batt out and check the V it will be above.
If this is the case with Yihi it would mean quite a reduction in achievable output. But like I said, I don't know.

Yep, we will have to wait and see what comes next.

I don't think that's true about how SX measures voltage. I've had my 350J pretty consistently cut me off, only to have my charger read in 3.4V. Seems pretty good to me. Or, perhaps you are correct, and they wrote in some code to take that into account haha.

 

[vapealone]

Yep, we will have to wait and see what comes next.

I don't think that's true about how SX measures voltage. I've had my 350J pretty consistently cut me off, only to have my charger read in 3.4V. Seems pretty good to me. Or, perhaps you are correct, and they wrote in some code to take that into account haha.

Who knows
However, their stated min input voltage is 3.2V. In your case, it can mean up to 500mah loss on a S25R (I mean, 3.4V vs 3.2V)
Besides, I cuts back power quite noticeably on low batt Voltage.

P.s.: What is your ADV power setting/reistance?

 

[Madnapali]

Who knows
However, their stated min input voltage is 3.2V. In your case, it can mean up to 500mah loss on a S25R
Besides, I cuts back power quite noticeably on low batt Voltage.

P.s.: What is your ADV power setting/reistance?

I leave it in Soft. Most recent builds sat around .12 and I'd use 20J or 24J depending on the airflow. I always get over 50kJ before I get the low battery warning. It lets me keep going but I stop there, so I've no doubt I could drain them to 3.2V and get the J usage up near 60k.

 

[vapealone]

I leave it in Soft. Most recent builds sat around .12 and I'd use 20J or 24J depending on the airflow. I always get over 50kJ before I get the low battery warning. It lets me keep going but I stop there, so I've no doubt I could drain them to 3.2V and get the J usage up near 60k.

I see.
20J (W) @ constant 2*3.7V would mean 2.7A draw (2.38A@4.2V and 3.125A@3.2V) which means quite a low initial drop. My guess is 0.1V or below.
You should vape on way higher J setting to put my theory in test


P.S.: I shouldn't have to ask the resistance. Old habits die hard

 

[vapealone]

I leave it in Soft. Most recent builds sat around .12 and I'd use 20J or 24J depending on the airflow. I always get over 50kJ before I get the low battery warning. It lets me keep going but I stop there, so I've no doubt I could drain them to 3.2V and get the J usage up near 60k.

BTW:
60KJ= 60KWs=1000Wm=16.66Wh==>2252mAh/battery
Assuming that Yihis display is correct it is quite a reasonable figure.
So is the 50KJ= 50KWs=833.33Wm=13.88Wh==>1877mAh/battery for 3.4V remaining

 

[Madnapali]

I should also mention I'm using lg hg2. 3000mah but the lower C rating might have them cut off sooner.

 

[vapealone]

You should have
I am using LG HE4 in my SXMM and 20K the max I can get out of it which is 1500mAh
Which now makes sense as your rated capacity is 500mAh and tested capacity is ~400mah higher

 

[Madnapali]

Oh, YiHi.

 

[vapealone]

Oh, YiHi.

Who knows.
@Mooch just advised that he tested a MXJO Yellow 30A 3000mAh @ 20A which was discharged to 2.830V and has risen back up to 3.337V after 20 minutes resting period.
I think until someone build a test bench programmed to some vape-like, non continous discharge- for batteries in general and a different one for boards also- it is our built in mouth/lung meter we have to rely on
However, I have found that @Mooch's constant discharge curves are a pretty a good starting point for approximation.
E.g. I wouldn't expect more than 2000mAh for a brand new LG HE4 on a regulated mod w/ 3.2V cut off.
The 1500mAh I got could be either my batts dying, Yihi's efficiency/algorithm/Joule counter inaccuracy or any combination of those

 

[Mooch]

Craig at KidneyPuncher does pulsed testing of a lot of cells. His graphs would give you a decent idea of the voltage drops under load, for one discharge current level, across the entire discharge of a battery.

Double-check whether he uses constant-current or constant-resistance discharges. You'll have to do a bit of math for the latter to derive the current at different points in the discharge.

 

[vapealone]

Craig at KidneyPuncher does pulsed testing of a lot of cells. His graphs would give you a decent idea of the voltage drops under load, for one discharge current level, across the entire discharge of a battery.

Double-check whether he uses constant-current or constant-resistance discharges. You'll have to do a bit of math for the latter to derive the current at different points in the discharge.

thanks @Mooch
it seems that their constant resistance test drains the battery quicker and results a total capacity below your 25A CC discharge if I read it right.
But it seems that the VTC5 and the 25R are reasonably close although the LG HG2 underperformed there pretty badly.

 

[Mooch]

thanks @Mooch
it seems that their constant resistance test drains the battery quicker and results a total capacity below your 25A CC discharge if I read it right.
But it seems that the VTC5 and the 25R are reasonably close although the LG HG2 underperformed there pretty badly.

Which cell (and what resistance for the test)are you referring to in your first sentence? CR tests should stress a cell less than a CC test if they start out at the same current level.

Be sure to confirm that his resistances, timing, type of test, etc., have not changed between tests. I know he changed his on/off timing, I don't know about the other stuff.

 

[vapealone]

Which cell (and what resistance for the test)are you referring to in your first sentence? CR tests should stress a cell less than a CC test if they start out at the same current level.

Be sure to confirm that his resistances, timing, type of test, etc., have not changed between tests. I know he changed his on/off timing, I don't know about the other stuff.

ok, I was a bit inaccurate
let me rephrase:
The most recent VTC 5 test (21A initial @4.2V/0.2Ohms and 14A min @ 2.8V) shows ~2,235mAh for them which is very close to your 25A test, could be above but more likely below. The year 2014 test (same resistance, different On and Off times) shows ~2132mAh which is definitely below your 25A test.
LG HG2 looks 2105mAh-ish to me there and Samsung 25R looks 2290-ish.

Do I misread something? If not, than it seems that on/off pulses doesn't improve our battery capacity

P.S.: the link to your own graphs are meant for other guys here
PP.S: I wish you could embed dropbox content as media. It would be awesome forum feature, wouldn't be?

 

[Mooch]

LOL, definitely.

I think you'll get much better comparisons if you pick a cutoff voltage above the point where the cell voltage plummets. The variation in capacity is very small at 2.8V and doesn't reflect what happens at the higher cutoff voltages used when vaping, typically 3.0V-3.4V.

For example, the VTC5 at 25A in my CC tests does about 780mAh before hitting 3.2V. The KidneyPuncher 0.2 ohm CR tested VTC5 reaches about 1200mAh before hitting 3.2V. This is a much more realistic result considering the lower current draw of the CR test and the rests the cell takes.

 

[vapealone]

For example, the VTC5 at 25A in my CC tests does about 780mAh before hitting 3.2V. The KidneyPuncher 0.2 ohm CR tested VTC5 reaches about 1200mAh before hitting 3.2V. This is a much more realistic result considering the lower current draw of the CR test and the rests the cell takes.

Indeed.
So I start to think that Yihi cuts of @ 3.2V under load. It would explain both the achieved mAhs and also the high voltage reading after usage.
Bottom line: I think I need some VTC5 for my Yihis as it seems it has lower internal resistance than my LGs thus lower voltage drop under load means I can get more mAh out of them
At least, in theory

 

[Mooch]

You could compare the voltage under load in my graphs for each cell test. Pick a moderate load, like 20A, and a convenient mAh point, like 750mAh, amd check out the voltage at that point for the VTC5, your LG's, and whatever other cells you're imterested in. A bit tedious to do but that's about it until I do the All Batteries 20A Shootout.

Also do a capacity check at 20A and 3.2V for the cells you're interested in. Some cells can have a low internal resistance and low capacity.

 

[yo han]

I do believe he was taking into account the capabilities of the chip. We know from past experience DNA chips are really good on battery.

This was about LiPo being ahead oh Li-Ion so the chip shouldn't be taken into account.

 

[vapealone]

This was about LiPo being ahead oh Li-Ion so the chip shouldn't be taken into account.

Except that the guy in question compared the Whiteout SX (2x 25Rs) with the Whiteout DNA200 (1000 and 1300mAh LiPo) saying that DNA would be ahead w 1300 LiPo
But again, these are just numbers

 

[vapealone]

Back to the topic:
ATM I am playing with A120 coils and found a funny thing which I don't get:
Instead of my previous oxidised micro coils I have built some unoxidised macro coils, basically M3 and M4 thread equivalent ones.
And for some reason, in tanks (Goliath and modded Subtank) they are hilarious (lower W/J and Temp for same performance = more power efficient) but don't shine on Velocity. It requires the same power settings and temp must be lowered because of burning taste. Inthe tanks I have just lower the temp because I could.
Again, the coils are the same. Any idea?