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vapealone

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FYI - The (listed TCR .0029) on Hyndman's Data sheet for A52 is wrong (likely a typo) It doesn't match Their temperature factor chart shown below!! A52 TCR is more like .004/°C or .00224/°F in the range 68°- 572°F
Well, we agree that their data is controversial.*
But I wouldn't use nominal (32-212°F) TCR to estimate any temperature outside its range. E.g. Ni's generally listed as 0.0047 and calculated values (based on TFR) outside the range can vary from 0.0039 (-100 - 20°C), to 0.0064 (20-400°C). Ok, the reference temp in the calculations is 20°C as I don't have 0°C data but the point holds: TCR refers to a certain range and can be used for linear approximation within the range. Outside the range it doesn't mean much.
Bottom line: nominal TCR isn't really useful for us but rock solid TFR values definitely would be:)

And yes, in our range I got calculated TCRs of 0.004122-0.004035 for Kanthal's Nifethal52, whose data I trust more. But bear in mind that it goes down to 0.00369 @500C.
Besides, I got no nominal TCR or 0C data to calculate it for comparison.

*: It isn't impossible to have a significantly different TCR between 0-100 and between 100 and any given temp higher than 100 but the very number in question is still dubious as you said.

Edit: Oops, I sightly overlooked the fact that their TFR is R(temp)/R(100C) and my TFRs are R(temp)/R(20C). Quickly converting Kanthals data to R(temp)/R(100C) gives a better but not fully identical match. So I stick with Kanthal data.
 
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pevinsghost

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Best target resistance is going to depend on your device and vaping preferences a bit I think.which wire I'd recommend would depend on the target resistance.
I've only tried 30ga and 20ga.
30 ga is a bit fiddly, but definitely better than nickel.
20 ga is wrapping coat hangers around a little blue screw driver.

So is say in general, higher gage is easier with SS, but anything above 22 should be doable.
 

cigatron

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After trying Ti I've decided I really don't like working with it so I'm ready to try SS.
Fasttech now has UD stainless steel for sale.
24 awg
26 awg
28 awg
Which size is the one to get and what's the best target resistance?

Can't answer your stainless question, don't have experience with it. There are some peeps here that do and they may be able to give you a good target res and wire gauge for temp control if you let them know which atty you'll be building on and which tc mod you intent to use. More info about your setup.

I'm a little curious about your trouble with Ti. Is it the workability of the wire or possible health concerns that put you off? There is about as much legit info on the health risks of Ti coils as there is for the health risks of vaping in general imo. Fwiw, I anneal and clean my Ti wire before winding coils. Malleability ends up being very close to kanthal.
 
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AlaskaVaper

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Speaking of dry burns: a few days ago I finally went back to Stainless Steel, for the first time since I started this thread.

I've only made one coil, but it's working really well. 8 wraps of 25G SS317L, coming out to about 0.48Ω. I'm running it at 215°C on the Dicodes, with TCR set to 0.001. I used to use 0.00105, but based on @vapealone 's research into the TCRs of different alloys, it seems 317 has a lower (worse) TCR than other alloys. Which incidentally makes me want to try some SS304 as I think that might match the 0.00105 that Dicodes quoted for SS. I see that wireandstuff.co.uk are selling 304 so I might get some at some point.

215°C is a fair bit lower than I run most Titanium/Resistherm builds. I think this reflects the inherent low accuracy of SS. My guess is I am in fact achieving around the 230°C that I normally target, it's just that with SS you're only getting accuracy to the nearest 30°C.

But, as Dicodes said in their Applicataion Note For Temp Controlled Vaping, it's not the accuracy that is of prime importance. It's the repeatability. It doesn't matter so much if the number on the screen is the actual real temperature. What matters most is that we can achieve a TC vape that tastes good, doesn't burn when juice runs out, and can be readily repeated.

So far I'm very pleased with the SS coil. It does taste good, it doesn't burn, and I've been vaping on the coil for several days and it's holding up perfectly.

And the best part is that it's proved to be dry burnable. I changed juice on that coil last night, and was able to remove the wick and then pulse the coil at 20W VW until it glowed red, to completely clean it out and remove all traces of previous flavour. The SS coils glow perfectly, just like Kanthal, remaining strong.

The other big advantage of dry burnable is that contact or part-contact coils are much more reliable - you can test fire the coil, dry burning it to check it has that nice inside-out glow, and that therefore there are no hot spots. I've found that's useful even on non-contact coils, just to be sure the coil is firing right.

Stainless Steel is very cheap - much cheaper than Resistherm - and therefore I think it's definitely a worthwhile TC wire.

But the big downside is that, currently at least, its use is limited to a small range of mods. Unlike Titanium and Resistherm, you can't adjust temperature on an Ni200 mod. You need a TCR adjusting mod. Right now that means Dicodes, DNA 200, or the SXK mods - though the latter are not going to be as good a vape as the former two. There's also the new Smok XCube 2 which is a TCR adjusting mod, but annoyingly won't go lower than 0.00150; 50% too high. That likely will work to some extent for SS with a temp adjustment, which I haven't tested yet. I do plan to contact Smok to ask them to lower the TCR to 0.00100 in a future update, enabling full Stainless Steel usage.

TLDR: If you have a TCR adjusting mod, give Stainless Steel a try! It's cheap, strong, dry-burnable, and gives a good repeatable TC vape. Just be aware you might need to play around with the target temp to find the right spot, and that might be 20-30°C (40-60°F) different to your 'normal' temp.

Stainless Steel Safety Wire - Chief Aircraft Inc.
SAFETY WIRE - STAINLESS STEEL - 1 LB SPOOL from Aircraft Spruce
Stainless Steel Information Knowledge | 18-8 | 304 | 316

IMG_2258.jpg


After reading your piece on SS Bloke I figured I would like to try my hand with some SS wire I have on hand. The problem was my wire that was used for weaving meshes for Dungeness crab pots was 12-14 ga by my rough estimate. Anyway I tried it wrapping 8 wraps with my Coilmaster 4mm rod and the photo shows the result. A lot of metal mass for sure. I could not get any TC mod I have to run this low resistance as they all jump immediately to watts mode. Oh well, I have placed the single coil in my Zephyer Buddha 26650 addy on my X=Cube II and fired it up at 40 watts with a familiar juice. It took several firings to get the coil heated sufficiently to produce a good vape. I have been using this now for about 4 days steadily and I love it. There is so much metal there that once the heat needed for a great vape (about 5 -6 sec) is reached I than find that as the coil slowly cools down I can achieve a fairly good second vape while the coil is cooling down. One down side is that it is a juice hog and well as draining the dual 18650's rather more quickly than I was accustom to. On a long 18 hour day I will need to recharge 2 pairs of batteries.

I estimate that the wire that i used for my coil is likely SS 302/304 grade. I have posted addresses at the start of this post to sources of aircraft safety wire where I plan to order some wire in future. I also include an address that describes the composition of various grades of SS. As a licensed Aircraft PowerPlant mechanic in my younger past these sources would a very cheap way to acquire SS and came back to mind. The ga's available for the safety wire ranges from 24ga - 32ga or .021 to .051 in size only which is a bit limiting but probably satisfactory. I plan to do more using SS in the future. It should be quite good for some tyoes of builds. I will be sticking with Ti for my temp control and if you are successful getting SMOK to reduce their TCF perhaps I will be able to us SS in TC as well.

Thanks Bloke for your remarks on SS in your post- it has inspired me. I apologize for the poor quality on my photo but my older iPad just would not focus up close enough. Cheers amigo.......Alaskavaper..... vaping advocacy and health on FB.
 

cigatron

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I could not get any TC mod I have to run this low resistance as they all jump immediately to watts mode. Oh well, I have placed the single coil in my Zephyer Buddha 26650 addy on my X=Cube II and fired it up at 40 watts with a familiar juice.

Too low of res but fired in watts mode on your xcube2? I don't know, seems like the res may have been too high, or went too high (high tcr) during firing for your tc mods. Your smoke is spec'd at .06-3.0 ohms in temp mode, higher res than most other tc mods. My evic vt60's are spec'd at .05-1.0 ohm in tc. What is the ambient res if your ss coil? Maybe building to a lower res would allow your ss safety wire to fire in temp control.

Point being, most tc mods have lower ohms capability in tc mode than they do in watts mode.
 
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AlaskaVaper

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Too low of res but fired in watts mode on your xcube2? I don't know, seems like the res may have been too high, or went too high (high tcr) during firing for your tc mods. Your smoke is spec'd at .06-3.0 ohms in temp mode, higher res than most other tc mods. My evic vt60's are spec'd at .05-1.0 ohm in tc. What is the ambient res if your ss coil? Maybe building to a lower res would allow your ss safety wire to fire in temp control.

Point being, most tc mods have lower ohms capability in tc mode than they do in watts mode.
I probably mis-spoke in my original post about the res being too low. It metered at .147 on my meter and shows as .15 on the Cube. I actually think the reason TC would switch immediately to watts was the fact that the TCF of the SS is not being recognized as functional or readable in the TC function as it currently exists on "my" device. I am still in firmware version 1.06 because I do not have a smart phone and being a Mac user I cannot upgrade my firmware at this time. I am hoping that this will be remedied soon by SMOK but I am not optimistic. Glad you caught me on this.....Alaskavaper
 

jazzvaper

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^^^^^ In anticipation of my VS DNA 200 I loaded VirtualBox onto my MBP and a MB Air. It was easy, and, pain-free. Then loaded Windows 8 on each and Win XP on one. (Remember to load the Guest Additions.) Downloaded eScribe, the Manual and "Story". I am ready to go without having to turn on my Windows box. [emoji41]
 

BrentMydland

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I have an ipv3li that runs ti and ni200. Would it be possible to use other wire like stainless steel or alloy 120 in the same way that people used ti on the dna40? That is to say run it in either ti or nickle mode and just set the temp X degrees lower/higher than what I actually want to achieve like people do to run ti on a nickle only mod? If so which mode should I put it in (ti or nickle) and how much lower/higher should I set the temp?

I can't use ni200 because of an allergy and would like to see what else is out there besides Ti. I've found Ti to be hard to work with compared to nickle, nicrome, and kanthal and my Ti coils gunk up super fast and I canMt dry burn them to clean them up.
 

AlaskaVaper

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^^^^^ In anticipation of my VS DNA 200 I loaded VirtualBox onto my MBP and a MB Air. It was easy, and, pain-free. Then loaded Windows 8 on each and Win XP on one. (Remember to load the Guest Additions.) Downloaded eScribe, the Manual and "Story". I am ready to go without having to turn on my Windows box. [emoji41]
Thanks for the information. I will look into Virtual Box. I hope that will help me to function in the windows world when necessary. I always worry about corrupting my iMac.
 

AlaskaVaper

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^^^^^ In anticipation of my VS DNA 200 I loaded VirtualBox onto my MBP and a MB Air. It was easy, and, pain-free. Then loaded Windows 8 on each and Win XP on one. (Remember to load the Guest Additions.) Downloaded eScribe, the Manual and "Story". I am ready to go without having to turn on my Windows box.
emoji41.png
^^^^^ In anticipation of my VS DNA 200 I loaded VirtualBox onto my MBP and a MB Air. It was easy, and, pain-free. Then loaded Windows 8 on each and Win XP on one. (Remember to load the Guest Additions.) Downloaded eScribe, the Manual and "Story". I am ready to go without having to turn on my Windows box. [emoji41]
Thanks Jazzvaper for the info. I will look into Virtual Box. I have always been wary of a virtual machine on my Mac fearing possibility of corruption of my iMac. Necessity is going to force my hand if I want some Windows up dates for some device or other, particularly if a DNA200 is ever to be in my future.
 

jazzvaper

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Thanks Jazzvaper for the info. I will look into Virtual Box. I have always been wary of a virtual machine on my Mac fearing possibility of corruption of my iMac. Necessity is going to force my hand if I want some Windows up dates for some device or other, particularly if a DNA200 is ever to be in my future.

It "feels" very safe to me, unlike Parallels, Fusion, and the like. It's from Oracle. [emoji108]
 

AlaskaVaper

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I probably mis-spoke in my original post about the res being too low. It metered at .147 on my meter and shows as .15 on the Cube. I actually think the reason TC would switch immediately to watts was the fact that the TCF of the SS is not being recognized as functional or readable in the TC function as it currently exists on "my" device. I am still in firmware version 1.06 because I do not have a smart phone and being a Mac user I cannot upgrade my firmware at this time. I am hoping that this will be remedied soon by SMOK but I am not optimistic. Glad you caught me on this.....Alaskavaper
Another update here on my SS wire experience and incompatible devices. I am now happily vaping the SS on my Zero mod withe the NP setting on 30 and the temp set at 280F. It is producing a nice warm and tasty vape. When I get to a new wicking I will try the dry burn test at this setting to determine if I am actually in the ballpark. Will post more when I learn more results. I now know better than to jump the gun with any postings.
 

TheBloke

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Another update here on my SS wire experience and incompatible devices. I am now happily vaping the SS on my Zero mod withe the NP setting on 30 and the temp set at 280F. It is producing a nice warm and tasty vape. When I get to a new wicking I will try the dry burn test at this setting to determine if I am actually in the ballpark. Will post more when I learn more results. I now know better than to jump the gun with any postings.

Hehe you have kind of done it the unusual way around. The 'correct' way is to have NP at 10, and then the temperature you actually want (eg 450F). That is not to say your way is any less accurate, just it is normal to set the desired TCR (in this case NP 10 = 0.001) and then the desired temperature, rather than adjusting the temperature for a too-high TCR. The latter is what we do on mods without TCR adjustment, eg running Titanium on an Ni200 mod like the DNA 40.

I have a couple of Stainless builds going right now, switching between my accurate Dicodes and my acceptable SXK mods. On the SXK I set NP to 10 and the temp to anywhere from 200°C to 230°C (390 to 450°F) depending on the build.

With Stainless Steel, TC is only accurate to the nearest 30°C (~ 90°F) even with the most accurate mod (Dicodes or DNA 200.) So on the SXK it is only somewhat accurate. Still it should be enough to get a good vape and no burnt hits, however the target temperature may have to be played with. This is true even on my Dicodes, where I have a SS build I usually set to 210-215°C where I set all my Titanium builds to 225-235°C.
 

TheBloke

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I probably mis-spoke in my original post about the res being too low. It metered at .147 on my meter and shows as .15 on the Cube. I actually think the reason TC would switch immediately to watts was the fact that the TCF of the SS is not being recognized as functional or readable in the TC function as it currently exists on "my" device. I am still in firmware version 1.06 because I do not have a smart phone and being a Mac user I cannot upgrade my firmware at this time. I am hoping that this will be remedied soon by SMOK but I am not optimistic. Glad you caught me on this.....Alaskavaper

The Smok XCube 2 is getting a reputation for reading resistances too low. So I would not be surprised by any too low reading. In my tests it has always been pretty accurate, though still always slightly low - though usually low by a figure such as 0.004Ω, ie not significant. Unfortunately you cannot check your three digit resistance unless you upgrade to firmware 1.07, which enables the Adjust Initial Ohms feature which a) shows resistance to three decimals b) allows this figure to be changed, which is an interesting feature that might have some use (if it works right.)

Even with upgraded firmware (to 1.08), the TCR on the Smok won't go below 0.00150 - about 50% too high for SS. That might be usable with temperature offsets, eg setting temp to 300°F instead of the desired 450°F, however I have not yet had much luck getting SS working on my Smok. Only tried one build, and it ignited my wet cotton. Literally burst it into flames. That was amusing :)

I will be trying again soon with other builds.

PS. As regards FW update, it is very unlikely you can ever do this on Mac. However you can install Windows in a VirtualBox VM, as jazzvaper suggests. This should work well and I would highly recommend you trying. It's not that hard to do, even if you are non-technical.

In fact, amusingly, I am already using a VM/Virtual Machine) with the Smok - but not to replicate Windows, but rather to replicate Android! There is a version of Android called Androidx86 which runs on normal PCs. I have this installed in a VM to talk Bluetooth to my Smok, because my Android phone is too old to use the Bluetooth 4.0 Low Energy required for the Smok. You can read several rants of mine about this in the Smok XCube 2 thread.
 

SotosB

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May 25, 2015
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I almost quit trying at some point with Ti. I used to get poor taste and not warm enough vape for my taste. Now all my atties wear Ti. I have my favoyrite fused clapton running for two weeks and it performs great. I thought of rewiking it since I have the same cotton for a week but I changed my mind. There's no need to. I'm impressed how clean it is. I have two 26g Ti claptoned with 35g Ti, at 50-60Watts. I want to try some more builds but it gives me so good vape I don't want to spoil it. I think I'll wait for my second Velocity to arrive since it's the only rda I have which can fit them.
kpFV3TZ.jpg
 

misibacsi

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Aug 23, 2015
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Hi,

I'm looking for a temperature control with nickel purity setting mod (clone) because i want to stay with SS wire.
My price limit under 100$, so i have found these options:

zero modz clone from SXK 60W
vaporflask & vf mini
vaporshark 60W
and sxk nebula.

So the question is that am i right? Only these options i have?
For me the size is matters a lot :) I dont want to make a biceps training all day with a half brick so it looks like for me the vaporshark will be the winner.
I am going to buy it from oceansvapor, it looks like they have it on the warehouse, and also the price is good too for 42+8,9$. But the too low price is pretty scary for me. :) I dont know nothing information about the building quality from this clone.

Is there any reason why i shouldnt buy this?
Or somebody have a link for youtube video especially for this clone?

Thanks the help, and sorry for my bad english.
 

AlaskaVaper

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The Smok XCube 2 is getting a reputation for reading resistances too low. So I would not be surprised by any too low reading. In my tests it has always been pretty accurate, though still always slightly low - though usually low by a figure such as 0.004Ω, ie not significant. Unfortunately you cannot check your three digit resistance unless you upgrade to firmware 1.07, which enables the Adjust Initial Ohms feature which a) shows resistance to three decimals b) allows this figure to be changed, which is an interesting feature that might have some use (if it works right.)

Even with upgraded firmware (to 1.08), the TCR on the Smok won't go below 0.00150 - about 50% too high for SS. That might be usable with temperature offsets, eg setting temp to 300°F instead of the desired 450°F, however I have not yet had much luck getting SS working on my Smok. Only tried one build, and it ignited my wet cotton. Literally burst it into flames. That was amusing :)

I will be trying again soon with other builds.

PS. As regards FW update, it is very unlikely you can ever do this on Mac. However you can install Windows in a VirtualBox VM, as jazzvaper suggests. This should work well and I would highly recommend you trying. It's not that hard to do, even if you are non-technical.

In fact, amusingly, I am already using a VM/Virtual Machine) with the Smok - but not to replicate Windows, but rather to replicate Android! There is a version of Android called Androidx86 which runs on normal PCs. I have this installed in a VM to talk Bluetooth to my Smok, because my Android phone is too old to use the Bluetooth 4.0 Low Energy required for the Smok. You can read several rants of mine about this in the Smok XCube 2 thread.
Thanks for this information Bloke. Your posts are always very loaded with great useful insights. Like you, I also have 4 or five devices in front of me all of the time, 4 different Tc devices and several regular variable v/w ones. It does get confusing at times with the various TC menus structures. Its a real circus. lol. I am in juice sampling mode currently as I have recently subscribed to a monthly subscription box service. That has proven most interesting to say the least. Thanks again for your worthwhile comments and sharing of insights. Finally, If you are ever able to get ahold of the new Asolo device that seems to approach wick protection from a moisture content perspective, I would be very interested in your perspective. Daniel, a reviewer in Portugal just did a fairly interesting review of this IJoy device. I think he is on utube as DJLsb Vapes. Cheers Amigo......Alaskavaper...Vaping Advocacy & Health on FB
 
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