TC beyond Ni200: Nickel Purity, Dicodes; Ti, SS, Resistherm NiFe30; Coefficient of Resistance
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Hey guys, so an update came out for the x cube 2 and it seems to mostly be addressing stainless. Here are the update notes pasted directly from smok:
V1.092 - IMPROVED FUNCTIONS
1. Improved the effect when working with stainless steel coils under TC mode, make it more stable and effective.
2. Fixed the issue that actual operating temperature is lower than setting value when working with Ni200 coils under TC mode.
Any idea what exactly this means?
Thanks in advance!
V1.092 - IMPROVED FUNCTIONS
1. Improved the effect when working with stainless steel coils under TC mode, make it more stable and effective.
2. Fixed the issue that actual operating temperature is lower than setting value when working with Ni200 coils under TC mode.
Any idea what exactly this means?
Thanks in advance!
You won't really be able to get anything approaching TC with an SS 316 coil on a mod that only has Titanium and Ni200 modes.
You need a TCR adjusting mod, such as the DNA 200, Dicodes chip, SXK chip and Apollo Reliant. Further discussing on TCR adjusting mods available in this post.
Had you had SS 304 wires/coils, then it's possible that a Titanium mod set to 200°F might achieve an acceptable maximum temp on the coil. For example the Joyetech EVic-VT, known to underheat in Titanium mode, achieves 230-240°C (446-464°F) on an SS 304 coil when set to 100°C. It would be a little lower set to 200°F (93°C).
But that's a) SS 304, which has a higher TCR than SS 316, and b) on a mod that underheats, I don't know if the D2 does. SS 316 would likely heat to over 600°F, or best case 550°F if the mod underheats a lot - still far too high to be considered much good as TC.
You can fire those coils in VW mode of course, that's fine with SS. But you won't be able to get usable TC with them unless you get a TCR adjusting mod.
You need a TCR adjusting mod, such as the DNA 200, Dicodes chip, SXK chip and Apollo Reliant. Further discussing on TCR adjusting mods available in this post.
Had you had SS 304 wires/coils, then it's possible that a Titanium mod set to 200°F might achieve an acceptable maximum temp on the coil. For example the Joyetech EVic-VT, known to underheat in Titanium mode, achieves 230-240°C (446-464°F) on an SS 304 coil when set to 100°C. It would be a little lower set to 200°F (93°C).
But that's a) SS 304, which has a higher TCR than SS 316, and b) on a mod that underheats, I don't know if the D2 does. SS 316 would likely heat to over 600°F, or best case 550°F if the mod underheats a lot - still far too high to be considered much good as TC.
You can fire those coils in VW mode of course, that's fine with SS. But you won't be able to get usable TC with them unless you get a TCR adjusting mod.
I have that wire too. What is a good TCR setting to use it on?
LOL, i see now you put that in there
Check out the Smok XCube 2 thread, I've been discussing the 1.092 update for a couple of days. In brief: I have yet to achieve anything like a working SS vape with 1.092, trying multiple coils and builds that work fine on my TCR adjusting mods.
At least one other user did say he had got SS working OK on 1.092, so there's variability there. I'm trying to work out what's going on.
Regarding the second point, it looks like possible the 1.092 underheats less than previous updates. Eg on earlier updates I had to set 250-260°C with a Titanium coil, but now 240-250°C seems OK. But my temp testing is giving very confusing and varied results so I'm still not 100% sure.
I have that wire too. What is a good TCR setting to use it on?
LOL, i see now you put that in there
0.00138 for now until we work out full curve data. The data sheet was re-posted yesterday by balazsk if you want to work on the curve yourself. Otherwise it should be available soon.
I got my SS 430 wire today thanks to @Landman but haven't vaped it yet. I found it just as springy as he reported, basically every bit as springy as Titanium, which is a big shame. A key advantage of SS gone. But the higher TCR and zero % nickel could have benefits.
I tried a 5 wrap spaced coil with the 28ga 430 from unkamen and it isnt a bad vape. Still tinkering with it, but id definitely say its a decent vape.
Oh, could you link me to that x cube 2 thread please sir?
Yeah the vape should be fine - just the usability was a key benefit of SS, so with that gone its only benefit is dry burnability. Which is still very useful. Just the ideal wire has both!
Smok X Cube II 160watt TC Bluetooth $55.9 coupon
I'll have to stick with VW "power mode" on the IPV D2 as it does not have an offset mode. My confusion is that nickel and titanium coils warn you to use the appropriate presets for each, and to NOT use those coils in non TC MODES. But I assume these Stainless steel prebuilt coils are meant to ONLY be used in most non TC mods, even though SS is being touted as a TC coil material. So bottom line, unlike nickel and titanium, stainless steel can work well with any mod, correct?
None of the manufacturers of pre-built stainless steel coils are actually touting them as viable for temp control at this point. Just as an alternative to Kanthal for VW mode.
Smok may change this in the near future when/if they release SS coils for the TFV4. That's assuming they get their SS TCR calcs sorted, and even then I suspect they won't be using 316L due to the low TCR.
Smok may change this in the near future when/if they release SS coils for the TFV4. That's assuming they get their SS TCR calcs sorted, and even then I suspect they won't be using 316L due to the low TCR.
Does anyone here flame Ti before coiling? Shouldn't cause it to oxidize and wouldn't it make it less springy?
Shouldn't the same work for stainless...
Shouldn't the same work for stainless...
Earlier today before seeing the SS 430 comments I wrapped a ridiculous number of wraps (on the order of 11 since it's a mere 28 awg) because I am/was conditioned to Ni 200. Quickly reduced that to 6 wraps, using the 316 L profile in eScribe. Not very good a vape, lacking in control. Cold resistance is 0.487. Then built down to 5 wraps, dry burned, as required.
So, I took the 0.00138 as a guide, building a custom profile of -100F 0.62, next point 0.082, 70F 1.00, 200F 1.25, 400F 1.37, 600F 1.42, 800F F 1.48, named and saved it as Unkamen 430.
Set the preheat to 100 watts, Temp to 450, watts to 28W. Can do. 6 second eScribe "Puff" without hitting TP. More than decent vape.
Will listen for a better approximation and look for a downloadable curve from SE.
SS can be vaped at VW-type temperatures - in fact up to 900°C. That's one of its benefits over Titanium and Ni200. Other wires with this property are what we call the NiFes - nickel/iron alloys - although most of those are recommended only up to 600°C, so they're really still best suited for TC vaping but should be OK to dry burn without temperature protection in brief bursts (eg for tweaking the coil, and for cleaning.)
I wrote a post describing the various benefits of different wires, which I'd recommend reading: TC wire comparison (especially, why Ni200 is the worst TC wire ever)
It comes out a little complex, and I still plan to do a neater graphic at some point. But the upshot is that Ni200 is worse than everything, Titanium is a great wire but is a little springy and can't be freely dry burnt (though can be by knowledgeable users under more careful/controlled conditions), then Stainless Steel and NiFe are usually not springy and can be dry burnt.
(Note that in that post I listed a disadvantage of SS as being its accuracy. This is now under some doubt - it may be more than accurate enough in practice - although the fact remains it can only be used on a small subset of TC mods: those with TCR adjustment, and possibly a small number of Titanium mods that don't fully heat their Titanium coils as much as they say they do.)
So yes, SS can be used on any mod - mech, VW, TC. But to get a TC vape generally requires a TCR adjusting TC mod.
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Several of us used to. I didn't pre-flame (or torch) the wire, as I didn't have a blow torch at the time. What I did was cut slightly more than coil-length of wire, let's say 150mm, and loop it between the posts of a random old RDA which I had on a random old VW mod. Then I set it to 30W and held fire until the wire turned blue all over. (Remember this was not coiled, just a flat stretch of wire - so it did not heat up nearly as quickly as a coil.) Once it was blue all over, I then coiled it as normal.
I did this for the reasons you mention , to make it less springy, and also in the belief that it would make contact coils easier.
I no longer bother. I found contact coils work just fine with regular, un-torched Titanium. And although springiness is still an annoyance, it wasn't worth pre-pulsing the wire every time to fix it
Here's a lengthy post I wrote about the pre-pulsing, in the Titanium thread. It shows in detail how I pulsed it, although it's no more complicated than I described above - and if you have a blow torch, that's no doubt quicker.
It took me a long time to even try Ti due to the "scare" but armed with a bit of knowledge I finally did.
Probably all I'll be using for awhile, at least till my meager supply runs out which should be awhile.
PM sent to Tom also.
Probably all I'll be using for awhile, at least till my meager supply runs out which should be awhile.
PM sent to Tom also.
TI is definitely my favorite wire and I can see it staying my favorite well until they get the SS temp control perfected.
Want to quickly add that 0.00138, or, 138 is a near perfect TCR for SS 430.
No matter the set Temp, on the DNA 200, eScribe hits temp and hovers there for a full ten second "puff".
I am going to stick with this until the values from @balazsk have been interpolated. Yes, I could do that myself but I am fan of standardization.
No matter the set Temp, on the DNA 200, eScribe hits temp and hovers there for a full ten second "puff".
I am going to stick with this until the values from @balazsk have been interpolated. Yes, I could do that myself but I am fan of standardization.
I have calculated the TFR values for @Landman, I think he has tried it and the numbers are OK.
Code:
"Temperature (degF),"Electrical Resistivity"
32,0.968646865
68,1
80.6,1.008250825
170.6,1.077557756
260.6,1.145214521
440.6,1.285478548
620.6,1.432343234If you would like to use this just save it in notepad as *.csv.
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