I hear what you are saying.
But a Change in a Metal Alloy's Hardness doesn't Necessarily mean a Change in its Chemical Properties.
The end of microcoils?
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I hear what you are saying.
But a Change in a Metal Alloy's Hardness doesn't Necessarily mean a Change in its Chemical Properties.
Agreed.
And for Someone who has spent the Time and Effort to De-Base some of the Studies that are out there, I was surprised that He did not Include some Documentation on this.
Saying that Dry Burning somehow makes them Hazardous is a Huge Claim.
True, but it wouldn't be the first time that he has said "this shouldn't be done, because x" when he meant "I wouldn't do this, because there's a possibility of x"
Notice the bit on diacetyl, now it's "if you're going to put it in, let people know so they can choose" whereas before it was "all manufacturers should remove it as an unnecessary risk."
The changes you are referring to have everything to do with annealing and/or recrystallization. When these alloys are heated, defects in the crystalline structure are removed as the atoms move around. The majority of these defects are of a type called dislocations. These defects harden the alloy. When they are removed, it actually makes the alloy more stable against chemical changes like oxidation, though softer. The process does not weaken the bond of the atoms in the crystal structure.
Straightforward answer, to the best of my un
Outstanding observation @Magaro, as I've alluded to in various posts. Working with jenny's and inadequately or excessively torch oxidized open Kanthal winds I experienced conspicuous spatter of accretion, surface layer and even raw wire. This too from close contact and open winds which were torch annealed. We don't want the preferential deposition of any underlying metal just alumina. And to answer your question before, based on my understanding on grain development and deposition soot from torching can be a deterrent to uniform alumina formation. Torching cannot and as you suggest may predispose Kanthal's peculiar chemistry to degradation. I also would agree that once you have that stable A2O3 base in place it is very durable. So the goal we chase in practical terms is uniformity, consistency.
I'm coming from an industrial purchasing management and hands on consultant in various technologies. Not a metallurgist or engineer. Have been seriously studying the science behind vaporization and its application among vapers for several years now. This is my takeaway after observing their methodologies and rigorously testing the premises of operation across near 2thou builds now and many more I've observed by others.
I advocate generating tensioned winds to achieve strain balanced symmetry and closest wire-to-wire proximity. There is a state of wire, a point of strain, which provides an ideal condition for pulsed oxidation. And my findings indicate that the induced strain is adequate to promote rapid A2O3 generation within a few low voltage pulses. Such that a substantial amount of residual rigidity continues to conserve the geometry essential to a micro's thermal efficiency conserved by the precise alumina layers the very proximity predicated. A synergistic approach. Some gaps develop of course but these interstitial spaces are extremely minute gas pressure exit paths which are beneficial to vapor output. Such coils have retained their shape far beyond the durability of the alumina layers themselves in practice and remain markedly stable for temperature. So a very consistent result M...
The technique I employ has been used by industry for generations and is simple for even those with no mechanical experience to learn for a simple common single wire tensioned contact coil creating a fundamentally sound balanced electrical circuit in seconds. My numerous comparisons of both methodologies of torching and pulsing led to a preference for electrical pulsing as soot deposits not only inhibit alumina formation but frankly, lets face it, it's fiddly. And I try diligently, as many would attest, to see new vapers get to at is directly as possible with the use of the most commonly available tools and means. At the moment, I see no more effective alternative on the horizon for a uniform vape.
Could use some help and support here.
Mind you M, I wind all kinds of stuff and my own preferences don't play a part in my above. You got a plan, I'm game.
Thanks for your remarks.
Good luck all.
It is. I know very little about metals, pretty close to zero actually.
He knows his stuff and and hope he expands on his statement.That's true.
He was pretty adamant about it. I can't even speak a second language let alone hope to ever speak one as well as he does though.Something that Needs to be considered is the Environment that that the Alloy is Heated and then Cooled in.
If Oxygen is present, Surface Oxides can Readily Form on the Interface Boundary when the Alloy Cools. People will sometimes refer to this layer as "Scale".
I'm just not very Familiar with what Happens to Kanthals when it is Heated to Dry Burn Temperatures and then Cooled without Quenching. And How/If there can be Alloy Migration to/from the Surface Boundary?
I just Don't Know?
I would think that if someone has found a Problem with a Kanthal after Dry Burning, that they would be Publishing the Results Soon. But in the meanwhile, they would Provide some of their Date/Findings.
Like I said, I use NiChrome 80. Which is a Less Complex Alloy than the Kanthal Family.
I've written a bit about this z and it requires considerable electrical pulsing (if alone) but as I noted above can be expedited by inducing strain into the wind, precluding aggressive compression, electrical annealing or torching.
Good luck all.
Pleased to see some knowledgeable peeps join this convo on the early demise of one of the most common circuits we use.
Good luck.
Good luck.
Alumina is also a material in common with ceramic wicking. And there is some formidable formally published science on this topic. Yes, we're building a ceramic layer on our coils which isolates the product from the underlying metals. An asset.
Good luck.
I've written a bit about this z and it requires considerable electrical pulsing (if alone) but as I noted above can be expedited by inducing strain into the wind, precluding aggressive compression, electrical annealing or torching.
Good luck all.
If you have some links, I would love to see them.
I Always like to Learn More about what goes on with Coils Alloys.
Alumina is also a material in common with ceramic wicking. And there is some formidable formally published science on this topic. Yes, we're building a ceramic layer on our coils which isolates the product from the underlying metals. An asset.
Good luck.
Ya know... I have heard many People say this. But I have Never Read anything Definitive about it.
Like I said, I use NiChrome 80. So researching Kanthal hasn't been something I have devoted much time to.
BTW - Is Aluminum such a Great Element to have in an Metal Alloy? Aluminum if a Very Reactive Mental. Especially when Compared to Chromium. And Chromium Oxides are considered to be Very Stable.
I keep hearing people say that Aluminum migrates and the Oxidizes at the interface Boundary of Kanthal. Why is this Such a Good Thing?
Verses having a Continuous Layer of Chromium Oxides?
Yep but at 2.5 ohms and 8 watts it is not really an issue now is it?
And I try diligently, as many would attest, to see new vapers get to at is directly as possible with the use of the most commonly available tools and means.
I can attest to that. I remember reading a bunch of your posts when I was starting to make coils. In case I didn't say it at the time, thanks for that.
We really do have a decent amount of expertise here on the subject of coils, and metallurgy in general. Without that expertise we would have been flapping around like fish out of water in response to Dr F's comments. At least I feel like I understand the subject matter a little better than I did this morning.
The missing piece of the puzzle appears to be where Dr F's comments came from. Given his history it seems unlikely that he would have pulled it out of thin air. Hopefully we will find out.
I know... That's what surprised me the most. The only study to date by Dr. F regarding metals, to my knowledge, was this one:
Metals emitted from e-cigarettes are NOT a reason for health concern
Conclusion--no reason to worry about metals in our vapor. True, he only tested cigalikes, but cigalikes have NiChrome coils--and do we know how they were made? Were they annealed? Heated at any point in the production process????
I know that Dr. Farsalinos had plans to actually do a study on wires, we asked for it, and he said he was ready but didn't have the money to do it. Here's a fragment of that conversation:
Evolv Technology Owners Discussion Thread | Page 20 | E-Cigarette Forum
I haven't seen any studies yet--that's why his statements were so surprising to me. I'm not sure what they were based on.
Well, how are you cleaning that 2.5ohm coil? Was it heated to red when it was made? Are you firing it before wicking to see if it glows evenly? Is there something off with the coil causing a single wrap to heat faster than the rest?
So yes, it could be an issue. Tootle puffer or not, you're using a coil, a coil that has the potential to have a hot spot, or a hot leg, or that you might choose to clean at some point.
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Yes you do--and you know that I've been paying attention. But the good Dr. now says no heating whatsoever... What's a girl to do? I'm not a metallurgist, as you may have already deduced from our previous conversations.
I'm learning how to make a good t.m.c, but no matter how hard I try, or whatever method of coil-building I employ (hand winding, coilers, spaced or not spaced), I can never be sure if my coil is sound unless I pulse it at least a couple of times.
I could probably forego dry burning, but pulsing the coil before wicking it is a necessity, isn't it?
I'm also using non-annealed wire and I don't torch it anymore. Is it good? Bad? Non-issue?
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