The FDA and hardware (questions)

[skoony]

Only if the FDA wants to classify it like that. If they don't, they won't. In that case, someone would have to spend years and a six (or more likely seven) figure sum on lawyers in an attempt to get the courts to make the FDA see things that way, a strategy that might counter productive since we'd rather not have our battery holders and evaporation chambers classified that way.

I believe this is exactly how they are classifying it.This is the reasoning they are using to get everything
under their control,the hardware,zero nic,everything. No loopholes. This reasoning also covers any
conceivable future product. This is a one shot deal for the FDA. They are not going to go about half
cocked. There's simply to much free range money running around the Wild,Wild West of the e-cig
industry. My advice, buy stock in a barbwire company.

Regards
Mike

 

[tj99959]

Most won't even apply for approval because their makers simply do not have the resources to file the required applications.

Exactly!
You can count on one hand the number of manufacturers that have the cash to just get one product approved. Nobody is going to try to get 100 different flavors/nicotine strengths approved. Probably what we will see is a couple of unflavored liquids at different nic %, and if you want flavorings you will have to add it yourself.

But watch out for stupid state/county/city regulations that will make it impossible for a national/international manufacturer to comply.
All a city has to do is add some silly statement requirement to the label.

 

[TFL!]

Check this out, If you don't think money is behind this Actual Tobacco Settlement Payments Received by the States (in millions)

 

[MouseD]

Umm... nobody is saying anything about making vaping illegal -- simply owning any piece of vaping equipment will not be a crime.

Andria

Apparently the city of Asheville NC has made it illegal to have any type of vapor product and you can be arrested and fined. I seen that mentioned on other forum vape site.

 

[seebo]

they don't seem to have a problem with every other gas station and corner store around here selling {Other Stuff} pipes. i don't think they'll be going after the hardware, but rather the liquid/nicotine. it's like a car, if they banned gasoline, what good would it be to have a car?

edit: gee wiz {Other Stuff} is censored, what are we in grade school? sometimes i wonder about this site.

 

[MouseD]

they don't seem to have a problem with every other gas station and corner store around here selling {Other Stuff} pipes. i don't think they'll be going after the hardware, but rather the liquid/nicotine. it's like a car, if they banned gasoline, what good would it be to have a car?

Here in Florida many of those type of place have been raided few times but not successfully too shut them down most times...all the owner has to claim and sell is loose leaf tobacco in the store and claim those type of pipes use that. That is the sticking point for us here in Florida is the loose tobacco.

 

[seebo]

Here in Florida many of those type of place have been raided few times but not successfully too shut them down most times...all the owner has to claim and sell is loose leaf tobacco in the store and claim those type of pipes use that. That is the sticking point for us here in Florida is the loose tobacco.

around here even the sex stores (like VIP, etc) have isles and isles of glass drug pipes, i think there are more drug pipes than dildos, and they don't even sell tobacco! it's pathetic that something like that is so easy to get, yet they're worried and going after a device with liquid/nicotine.

 

[MouseD]

Just found this another city in NC is even worse....Waynesville, May 23, 2015, banned on sidewalks, public parks, parking lots, greenways, city vehicles and the area in and surrounding town buildings...banned ecig in a parking lot....

 

[VNeil]

If you think the FDA will not crack down severely on hardware, consider this... all you need to vape is hardware and a commonly available consumer product, VG (or PG). VG is more or less as readily available as vegetable oil.

So you have to ask yourself... if they really want to crack down on vaping, how can they do it without controlling the hardware?

They either have to control the hardware or make PG and VG illegal to possess. Or they have to force some sort of additive to be included that makes it unvapable (which some have suggested has been done somewhere in the world??? I dunno)

Anyone aware of the deeming and not stocking up, hoping some sort of reason or legal due process will prevail is foolish (in my humble opinion of course).

I'm also envisioning the possibility of people being put in jail for possessing or perhaps "intent to distribute" VG. Unfortunately anything is possible in a world that can put out the Harvard Study the way it was played.

 

[MouseD]

around here even the sex stores (like VIP, etc) have isles and isles of glass drug pipes, i think there are more drug pipes than dildos, and they don't even sell tobacco! it's pathetic that something like that is so easy to get, yet they're worried and going after a device with liquid/nicotine.

Do the sell the oil/wax you can smoke from them...if so that might be your sticking point. I have heard of some type of oil/wax you can smoke.

 

[VNeil]

Just found this another city in NC is even worse....Waynesville, May 23, 2015, banned on sidewalks, public parks, parking lots, greenways, city vehicles and the area in and surrounding town buildings...banned ecig in a parking lot....

It is interesting that NC is also ground zero for tobacco production in the USA. Protecting their industry????

 

[MouseD]

If you think the FDA will not crack down severely on hardware, consider this... all you need to vape is hardware and a commonly available consumer product, VG (or PG). VG is more or less as readily available as vegetable oil.

So you have to ask yourself... if they really want to crack down on vaping, how can they do it without controlling the hardware?

They either have to control the hardware or make PG and VG illegal to possess. Or they have to force some sort of additive to be included that makes it unvapable (which some have suggested has been done somewhere in the world??? I dunno)

Anyone aware of the deeming and not stocking up, hoping some sort of reason or legal due process will prevail is foolish (in my humble opinion of course).

I'm also envisioning the possibility of people being put in jail for possessing or perhaps "intent to distribute" VG. Unfortunately anything is possible in a world that can put out the Harvard Study the way it was played.

Personally I think its the Nic they will try to ban being sold to those of us that make our own ecig juice...VG and PG is used in many other homemade products....like soap ....lotions and that. On that point is why I am starting to stock up on extra Nic now...I finally got my VA disability pension straighten out and can now afford to buy extra each month.

 

[Wow1420]

Apparently the city of Asheville NC has made it illegal to have any type of vapor product and you can be arrested and fined. I seen that mentioned on other forum vape site.

That's the sort of statement that shouldn't be spread around without independent verification. What I found in a very brief Google search is that Asheville has banned vaping in some public places. I'll leave it to someone with a better internet connection to research further, but I don't believe it that possession is illegal.

 

[MouseD]

It is interesting that NC is also ground zero for tobacco production in the USA. Protecting their industry????

Where I found that other bit on NC

List of vaping bans in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[cllmda]

OK, admittedly I have been remiss in not keeping up with all of the threats to vaping, though I do respond to all calls for action that I see posted here. Having revealed that, I have a question. I see a lot of folks here posting things like "I'm going to pick up a couple extra (regulated mod, mech mod, tank, etc) and stash it away for when the FDA regulations take effect. Note that I am referring to hardware. So, my question and a follow-up statement (opinion):

How can the FDA possibly regulate a battery operated device? If it is sold as something NOT specifically called an ecig, how can this be enforced?

Because they can do whatever they want, even if it doesnt make sense
( I know that's hard to believe & admit but....)

= TW's director has explained how they are making him put stickers on his ecigs/ecig kits showing skulls &crossbones & saying ""dangerous- contains nicotine"-"Toxic" & stuff along those lines .
Their devices are being counted as Nicotine products even though an empty ecig device (battery+atty/tank) obviously doesnt have any Nic in it at that point...but that doesnt matter-the EU/UK Gov considers it as such and that's it !

Illogical ? Yes....

....But they do what they want,regardless !

 

[MouseD]

That's the sort of statement that shouldn't be spread around without independent verification. What I found in a very brief Google search is that Asheville has banned vaping in some public places. I'll leave it to someone with a better internet connection to research further, but I don't believe it.

Why I said apparently cause I wasn't fully sure of laws but really from list I just found .....its illegal to use vapor product on a public sidewalk...that is going a bit excessive now. I understand work places ....govt bldg and that but come on a public sidewalk. And here is the kicker....you can smoke a normal cigarette on public sidewalks but not a ecig one.

 

[VNeil]

Personally I think its the Nic they will try to ban being sold to those of us that make our own ecig juice...VG and PG is used in many other homemade products....like soap ....lotions and that. On that point is why I am starting to stock up on extra Nic now...I finally got my VA disability pension straighten out and can now afford to buy extra each month.

Yes, they will certainly ban or severely tax nic (to the tune of $1000 or more per liter of concentrate). But the hardware is a critical piece of the puzzle. I implore you to not overthink this. The quotes above make it very clear the FDA is going after hardware. If not day 1 then day 100. The first regulation is never the last. The first regulation is usually the toughest to impose. Once imposed, adding to the pain is very easy. The history of the war on smoking should make that very clear.

 

[zoiDman]

...

I'm also envisioning the possibility of people being put in jail for possessing or perhaps "intent to distribute" VG. ...

 

[MouseD]

Yes, they will certainly ban or severely tax nic (to the tune of $1000 or more per liter of concentrate). But the hardware is a critical piece of the puzzle. I implore you to not overthink this. The quotes above make it very clear the FDA is going after hardware. If not day 1 then day 100. The first regulation is never the last. The first regulation is usually the toughest to impose. Once imposed, adding to the pain is very easy. The history of the war on smoking should make that very clear.

Oh I planned on getting extra hardware too....just right now its the Nic I working on...but yeah I will be stocking up on batteries....coils...tanks too.

 

[VNeil]

Personally I think its the Nic they will try to ban being sold to those of us that make our own ecig juice...VG and PG is used in many other homemade products....like soap ....lotions and that. On that point is why I am starting to stock up on extra Nic now...I finally got my VA disability pension straighten out and can now afford to buy extra each month.

If you reread what I said... because PG/VG is is so ubiquitous, they MUST control the hardware in order to control vaping. It is that simple and no more complicated. If you think "they" are too stupid to understand that, you severely underestimate your adversary here. They know exactly what they need to do.

It is also clear that "they" do not want "you" to stop smoking. It is very clear to me that even vaping zero nic juice can be very effective. They know that too. They do not want you vaping, in any form. It not only simplifies any enforcement (eliminating the need to to test or argue about the presence of nic in the juice) it is the best way to keep you smoking and paying the associated taxes. And this is all about the money, folks.