The Final Count Down -- Are You Ready?

[susieqz]

when i get a liter of nic from nic river, i toss it in the freezer
in the sealed heavy plastic bottle it comes in.
nic river thinks this is fine.
why don't you?

 

[BigPappa]

when i get a liter of nic from nic river, i toss it in the freezer
in the sealed heavy plastic bottle it comes in.
nic river thinks this is fine.
why don't you?

Apparently some plastics are semi-permeable and may let in some oxygen, that combined with the fear that the plastic may leach into the nic over long periods of time is probably why most of us transfer to glass bottles. I also worry that some plastics may begin to break down and become brittle over 20-30 years.

 

[mikepetro]

when i get a liter of nic from nic river, i toss it in the freezer
in the sealed heavy plastic bottle it comes in.
nic river thinks this is fine.
why don't you?

Experiments by folks here have proven that glass is a much better long term storage medium. Plastic is indeed permeable to oxygen, glass is not.

@Rossum has thread exploring such things. Its a good read.

Nic Base Storage: Freezer vs. Room Temp Experiment

 

[Bronze]

when i get a liter of nic from nic river, i toss it in the freezer
in the sealed heavy plastic bottle it comes in.
nic river thinks this is fine.
why don't you?

Because a liter glass bottle costs $1.32 or approximately 3% of what the nic solution costs.

 

[Rossum]

when i get a liter of nic from nic river, i toss it in the freezer
in the sealed heavy plastic bottle it comes in.
nic river thinks this is fine.
why don't you?

It's definitely better to put it in the freezer ASAP than to leave it out, no matter what type of bottle it's in. But for long-term storage, plastic has some potential downsides.

 

[Rossum]

Experiments by folks here have proven that glass is a much better long term storage medium. Plastic is indeed permeable to oxygen, glass is not.

@Rossum has thread exploring such things. Its a good read.

Nic Base Storage: Freezer vs. Room Temp Experiment

I'm not sure my experiments have proven that. They've clearly shown that freezer temperatures are much better than room temperature, no matter whether the nic base is in glass or PET (#1 recycling code) plastic. PET is the only kind of plastic I've looked at because it's the only kind that's clear and thus allows periodic inspection of the samples without opening the bottles.

The thing is, most vendors who ship nic base in plastic don't use PET bottles. They use HDPE (#2 recycling code) plastic.

Now here's the catch: At the same thickness, HDPE is roughly 50 times as permeable to oxygen as PET.

Personally, I would be OK with keeping nic base in the freezer for a few years in PET plastic. I've seen little difference between PET plastic and glass over my now almost three years of study when stored in the freezer. At room temperature, the difference might be considered noticeable, but it still isn't night and day.

Unfortunately, I have no empirical data at all regarding HDPE. Given what the literature says about its permeability to oxygen, I would not recommend leaving nic base in HDPE bottles longer than absolutely necessary.

 

[mikepetro]

I have some personal experience with high strength nic in HDPE stored at room temp. After 6 months the plasticizers smelled so strong that I dumped the nic out.

 

[Bronze]

I'm not sure my experiments have proven that. They've clearly shown that freezer temperatures are much better than room temperature, no matter whether the nic base is in glass or PET (#1 recycling code) plastic. PET is the only kind of plastic I've looked at because it's the only kind that's clear and thus allows periodic inspection of the samples without opening the bottles.

The thing is, most vendors who ship nic base in plastic don't use PET bottles. They use HDPE (#2 recycling code) plastic.

Now here's the catch: At the same thickness, HDPE is roughly 50 times as permeable to oxygen as PET.

Personally, I would be OK with keeping nic base in the freezer for a few years in PET plastic. I've seen little difference between PET plastic and glass over my now almost three years of study when stored in the freezer. At room temperature, the difference might be considered noticeable, but it still isn't night and day.

Unfortunately, I have no empirical data at all regarding HDPE. Given what the literature says about its permeability to oxygen, I would not recommend leaving nic base in HDPE bottles longer than absolutely necessary.

I have some personal experience with high strength nic in HDPE stored at room temp. After 6 months the plasticizers smelled so strong that I dumped the nic out.

Again, at $1.32 per glass bottle there is really little reason to not store our nic in these bottles to remove any doubt about plastic bottles (PET or HDPE). I suspect there is a reason why glass bottles remain popular in many of today's applications...especially medical. For something we so highly value to our lives (nic), the thought of spending another 3% for glass storage is fleeting at most.

 

[Rossum]

Again, at $1.32 per glass bottle there is really little reason to not store our nic in these bottles to remove any doubt about plastic bottles (PET or HDPE). I suspect there is a reason why glass bottles remain popular in many of today's applications...especially medical. For something we so highly value to our lives (nic), the thought of spending another 3% for glass storage is fleeting at most.

I'll let you in on a secret: I even keep my VG and PG in liter-sized glass bottles. You can't beat the cost of a Glycube from Essential Depot (at least when it's on sale), but four gallons of PG/VG will last me close to eight years, so....

 

[mikepetro]

I'll let you in on a secret: I even keep my VG and PG in liter-sized glass bottles. You can't beat the cost of a Glycube from Essential Depot (at least when it's on sale), but four gallons of PG/VG will last me close to eight years, so....

Agreed, I once had to throw out a bottle of PG because of the plasticizer smell.

 

[Bronze]

I'll let you in on a secret: I even keep my VG and PG in liter-sized glass bottles. You can't beat the cost of a Glycube from Essential Depot (at least when it's on sale), but four gallons of PG/VG will last me close to eight years, so....

And it didn't bankrupt you?

 

[DaveP]

Well then - Just may NEED Ya' to come over and restock the little 1.1cu Freezer I have . . . Right now my 1.1cu Freezer is only holding 4 liters of NIC decanted into 18 - 8oz Bottles that are also in 2 plastic shoe boxes without lids on the very top shelf . . . Which only leaves the bottom of the little freezer still available - however it is only half the area of the top shelf and I have another 4 liters of NIC left . . . Just Sayin' . . .

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A couple of years ago I thought about a small freezer to hold my 3 liters of nic, but decided to go with the upright home freezer once I calculated the small box size it would take to hold that much nic.

I finally decided to transfer the liters into 8oz Boston Rounds glass bottles. Those fit into a cardboard box about 10" x 7" x 5 1/2". Each bottle is in a heavy duty ziplock freezer bag inside the box. The box is sitting on a shelf in the upright freezer at -10F.

 

[Rossum]

And it didn't bankrupt you?

Since the roughly $5,000 per year I was previously spending on my cigarette habit didn't bankrupt me, I can assure you that purchasing some glass bottles (that will be re-usable for the rest of my life!) didn't either.

 

[DaveP]

It's been almost a year since I threw out my old room temp oxidized nic (drizzled it on fire ant hills). My new 3 liters went into glass bottles and into the freezer quickly. It's still clear after almost a year and the Fire Ants haven't really made much of a comeback. Of course, that's an expensive ant killer method, but the nic was quite peppery after more than a year at room temp.

 

[RichardV]

I recently opened the last of the 100 mg nicotine that I had purchased from RTS Vapes in Dec. 2012. It had been stored in my freezer in the original hdpe bottle since then and had survived a 3 week period of no power after hurricane Irma.
It was as odorless and colorless as the day I received it. My recent purchase was rebottled in glass bottles with polycone lids.

 

[stols001]

It's not the cost of the bottle it's the darn DECANTING process. LOL (BTW if you have prime, decide what bottles you want then buy the exact same thing on Amazon "fulfilled by Glass Bottle outlet." Shipping is like free and at GBO it's like HALF the cost.

With that said, yes, for me it is the decanting process. I am heartened most of it is like, new, but I REALLY just need to finish darn it. LOL.

Anna

 

[susieqz]

yeah, that decanting thing is what stops me.
too much work.

 

[Rossum]

I don't understand what's so difficult about decanting. Now I'll admit I ordered almost all of my nic as freezer-ready NN Armor V1. But about twice a year, I make a big batch (nearly one liter) of vaping-strength unflavored base. After I mix this, guess what? I decant it into 120 ml glass bottles, all but one of which go back in the freezer. It takes me about 10 minutes. I use a small stainless steel funnel. No muss, no fuss.

PS: I re-use the bottles. Some of them have been used half a dozen or so times. Some of them are bottles I bought, and some are ones that the NN Armor V1 came in to begin with.

 

[stols001]

Rossum, you don't have a fine motor tremor plus I have like 18 L I calculated..

The thought of like putting my PG and VG (2.5 GALLONS IN ONE JUG I could barely LIFT it at first.) Plus I HAVE to have my nic in ALL VG because I like have a PG sensitivity. So the nic is gloopy it's annoying and I make a mess.

I would have gotten the wide mouth jugs but I did not and it's actually easier (now) for me to like NOT use a funnel, that takes FOREVER.

But yes, it gets.... I get tired. I need to order some more bottles and I may look at wide mouth.

But it is a total PITA (for me.)

Anna

 

[Rossum]

Rossum, you don't have a fine motor tremor plus I have like 18 L I calculated..

OK, I'll grant you I don't have a tremor.

I have decanted gallons of straight VG into 1 liter bottles. That is indeed something of a PITA, especially the first liter or two while the gallon jug is heavy. The last of it always takes some time. I prop the jug upside-down and give gravity an hour or so to do its work.

Have you considered getting the husband to help? There are probably certain "favors" you could offer him in return.