The Flavor Apprentice Flavoring Thread

[tdtyler]

I also add about 1/10 of 1% of citric acid to my bases as a preservative and anti-bacterial agent. That way, even if a flavor was mixed with water somewhere along the way, the flavor bases will last almost indefinitely. At those small percentages, there is no change to the flavor. Anyway, I found this to be a good solution to some of the issues I found facing "immediate orders." Works for me. My two cents...

Hi Bill! I'm very curious about how you get to 1/10th of 1% citric acid. I have crystals. Do you add it in crystal form by measuring the weight?

Also: You mention the flavors "bonding" in the PG stash thus enabling you to mix already "steeped" juices for friends, family, and others. FINALLY!!!! Someone said what I suspected is true.

Getting out soapbox...
There is a *HUGE* amount of well-intentioned advice/information available. One piece of information that boggles my mind is the "steeping" of certain flavors for months and months - or weeks and weeks... This seems so against common sense that I've always questioned it. What Bill talks about is the flavor bonding with the PG over time. It seems to me that would be a finite process where the full mix point would come fairly quickly; certainly not weeks and weeks...

Now, I have no doubt when people say their flavors change over time. I truly believe they experience that. But I don't believe there is a chemical/oxidation process in the flavor bonding with the PG that takes a LONG, LONG, time - as in weeks or months.

Now to the point: Bill, what TFA flavoring do you use that takes the absolute longest to fully bond in the PG so it's vape ready without regard to nic strength and amount used in the delivery bottle?

DISCLAIMERS: Please, I'm not trying to hijack the thread and start on off-topic discussion. You may pick on me mercilessly and I won't take it personally. It's my stupid, ill-informed (but experienced) opinion and I'm trying to get objective answers to what I believe is some voodoo that's has cost me some money in thrown out juices.

One more thing: I'm working on tobacco flavored juices. I really don't want to wait months and months to see how I'm doing. If you have experience with these flavors and want to share it with me, please do; I beg you!

Western
Red
M Type Premium
Turkish
tobacco

All TFA.

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Hi Bill! I'm very curious about how you get to 1/10th of 1% citric acid. I have crystals. Do you add it in crystal form by measuring the weight?

Also: You mention the flavors "bonding" in the PG stash thus enabling you to mix already "steeped" juices for friends, family, and others. FINALLY!!!! Someone said what I suspected is true.

Getting out soapbox...
There is a *HUGE* amount of well-intentioned advice/information available. One piece of information that boggles my mind is the "steeping" of certain flavors for months and months - or weeks and weeks... This seems so against common sense that I've always questioned it. What Bill talks about is the flavor bonding with the PG over time. It seems to me that would be a finite process where the full mix point would come fairly quickly; certainly not weeks and weeks...

Now, I have no doubt when people say their flavors change over time. I truly believe they experience that. But I don't believe there is a chemical/oxidation process in the flavor bonding with the PG that takes a LONG, LONG, time - as in weeks or months.

Now to the point: Bill, what TFA flavoring do you use that takes the absolute longest to fully bond in the PG so it's vape ready without regard to nic strength and amount used in the delivery bottle?

DISCLAIMERS: Please, I'm not trying to hijack the thread and start on off-topic discussion. You may pick on me mercilessly and I won't take it personally. It's my stupid, ill-informed (but experienced) opinion and I'm trying to get objective answers to what I believe is some voodoo that's has cost me some money in thrown out juices.

One more thing: I'm working on tobacco flavored juices. I really don't want to wait months and months to see how I'm doing. If you have experience with these flavors and want to share it with me, please do; I beg you!

Western
Red
M Type Premium
Turkish
Tobacco

All TFA.

Ok, a lot of questions there, my friend.

First, I dissolve citric acid in a PG solution.

Regarding steeping I've learned just from my own juices. I used to make a complex vanilla custard. After about 4 weeks, the nutmeg and eggnog that I added had settled to the point where it was vapeable. I now know that if the juice takes that long to "mature," that I made a bad mix. My longest "steep" time in 48 hours. All the flavor bonds for everything I make is certainly very good upon mixing, and ready soon after, but not days and weeks later. To fix the vanilla custard, I changed the brand of my nutmeg and eggnog, and now I don't have a steep problem. I had used a recipe I found online that everyone swore was the BEST! And it was pretty good after 4 weeks, once it didn't taste like what I originally mixed, which begged the question: why make a mix that is unvapeable day one? No, the mix was wrong. Juices don't require 4 weeks to steep. They may take 4 weeks to correct a bad mix. But that's just me.

As I've mentioned previously, I don't do tobacco mixes anymore. As good as they were when I first stopped smoking, they don't compare taste-wise to a delicious desert mix. Again, that's just me, and the natural evolution of my vaping tastes. Just like the natural evolution to better gear, and the natural evolution to lower nicotine, prompted by the better gear, and improved taste buds. Again, just my own experience and two cents. Best.

 

[TheKiwi]

Hi all! I decided to finally try out DIY, and ordered 15 different TFA flavorings, 1.5L of VT nic, and 1L each of pg and VG. I should be getting all of em over today and tmr, so just wanted to say hi! Gonna pop by after to see if I can get some help with starting off on my own DIY


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[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Hi all! I decided to finally try out DIY, and ordered 15 different TFA flavorings, 1.5L of VT nic, and 1L each of pg and VG. I should be getting all of em over today and tmr, so just wanted to say hi! Gonna pop by after to see if I can get some help with starting off on my own DIY


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Welcome Kiwi! I'm sure you'll love DIY. Better juice, much lower cost.

 

[Heabob]

Hi Bill! I'm very curious about how you get to 1/10th of 1% citric acid. I have crystals. Do you add it in crystal form by measuring the weight?

Also: You mention the flavors "bonding" in the PG stash thus enabling you to mix already "steeped" juices for friends, family, and others. FINALLY!!!! Someone said what I suspected is true.

Getting out soapbox...
There is a *HUGE* amount of well-intentioned advice/information available. One piece of information that boggles my mind is the "steeping" of certain flavors for months and months - or weeks and weeks... This seems so against common sense that I've always questioned it. What Bill talks about is the flavor bonding with the PG over time. It seems to me that would be a finite process where the full mix point would come fairly quickly; certainly not weeks and weeks...

Now, I have no doubt when people say their flavors change over time. I truly believe they experience that. But I don't believe there is a chemical/oxidation process in the flavor bonding with the PG that takes a LONG, LONG, time - as in weeks or months.

Now to the point: Bill, what TFA flavoring do you use that takes the absolute longest to fully bond in the PG so it's vape ready without regard to nic strength and amount used in the delivery bottle?

DISCLAIMERS: Please, I'm not trying to hijack the thread and start on off-topic discussion. You may pick on me mercilessly and I won't take it personally. It's my stupid, ill-informed (but experienced) opinion and I'm trying to get objective answers to what I believe is some voodoo that's has cost me some money in thrown out juices.

One more thing: I'm working on tobacco flavored juices. I really don't want to wait months and months to see how I'm doing. If you have experience with these flavors and want to share it with me, please do; I beg you!

Western
Red
M Type Premium
Turkish
Tobacco

All TFA.

Most tobaccos get better over time but usually a month is plenty.
Although I'm using VZ-SC Parliament (alcohol-based), Inawera (WG) Virginia Tobacco Absolute, and Inawera (WG) DNB.
Also like VZ-SC Virginia Flue Cured.
Just a tobacco flavor with no extra baggage...
I heat them in a UC for a few 30 min. cycles, as it helps cut down on steep time, (a week for me anyway).
Some use a crock pot on low for 4 hrs, but must use a glass bottle, the plastic will melt.
The idea is to keep it below 150F so you may need to monitor temps.
I think most Rice Cookers have an automatic heat built in.
Good idea to make small batches at first till you find the percents that work best for "you".

Most of the other brand tobaccos I've tried are floral, spicy, vanilla, chocolate, but are OK if you're into that type.

 

[tdtyler]

Regarding steeping I've learned just from my own juices. I used to make a complex vanilla custard. After about 4 weeks, the nutmeg and eggnog that I added had settled to the point where it was vapeable. I now know that if the juice takes that long to "mature," that I made a bad mix. My longest "steep" time in 48 hours.

Oh man... Thank you! I thought I was crazy.

I understand it's YOUR experience. I believe people when they say their mix changes over "months." Mine do, too. They get stale and lose flavor or one molecule quits so suddenly you're tasting others.

48 hours... Can you imagine? The dollars I've thrown out and the time I've wasted on BAD MIXES!!! It was my fault all along.

Thanks, Bill!

 

[tdtyler]

Most tobaccos get better over time but usually a month is plenty.
Although I'm using VZ-SC Parliament (alcohol-based), Inawera (WG) Virginia Tobacco Absolute, and Inawera (WG) DNB.
Also like VZ-SC Virginia Flue Cured.
Just a tobacco flavor with no extra baggage...
I heat them in a UC for a few 30 min. cycles, as it helps cut down on steep time, (a week for me anyway).
Some use a crock pot on low for 4 hrs, but must use a glass bottle, the plastic will melt.
The idea is to keep it below 150F so you may need to monitor temps.
I think most Rice Cookers have an automatic heat built in.
Good idea to make small batches at first till you find the percents that work best for "you".

Most of the other brand tobaccos I've tried are floral, spicy, vanilla, chocolate, but are OK if you're into that type.

Thank you, sir! This is good info. I will confess I'm pretty stuck on TFA, though.

I fear you're correct in that TFA flavors may have a floral/spicy taste.

I've looked at the ingredients for real analogs. Brown sugar and caramel are two that I easily recognize. So, if I find a TFA tobacco flavor that I like (M Type Premium is coming out on top right now), what do other people using TFA tobacco flavoring use in their mixes. And, HeaBob, if you add stuff to your mixes, what do you add?

Thanks!!!!

Tim

 

[tdtyler]

I'm using VZ-SC Parliament (alcohol-based), Inawera (WG) Virginia Tobacco Absolute, and Inawera (WG) DNB.
Also like VZ-SC Virginia Flue Cured.
Just a tobacco flavor with no extra baggage...

Having a little trouble with the acronyms...

VZ=Vaping Zone?

Thanks, HeaBob!

 

[tdtyler]

Please help if you can...

Is there anyone watching this thread who uses TFA RY4 Double at more than 15% strength?

I'm up to 15% and still can't taste it. I went up in 1% increments starting at 5%.

Thank you!

 

[Thunderball]

Please help if you can...

Is there anyone watching this thread who uses TFA RY4 Double at more than 15% strength?

I'm up to 15% and still can't taste it. I went up in 1% increments starting at 5%.

Thank you!

I don't use that flavor but just a side note here....... Always shake your flavors before you use them ..... Every time. Some flavors separate such limes and lemons and you can really be off with your recipes.


Nic will separate as well

Carry on

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[GaryInTexas]

Please help if you can...

Is there anyone watching this thread who uses TFA RY4 Double at more than 15% strength?

I'm up to 15% and still can't taste it. I went up in 1% increments starting at 5%.

Thank you!

I think you overshot the flavor level some. I suggest working at the 8-12% level on RY4D. Let it age some and then play with your wattage settings on your device. I find some flavors come alive at certain wattages. Be sure and shake the flavoring bottle very well before you mix.

 

[Heabob]

Thank you, sir! This is good info. I will confess I'm pretty stuck on TFA, though.

I fear you're correct in that TFA flavors may have a floral/spicy taste.

I've looked at the ingredients for real analogs. Brown sugar and caramel are two that I easily recognize. So, if I find a TFA tobacco flavor that I like (M Type Premium is coming out on top right now), what do other people using TFA tobacco flavoring use in their mixes. And, HeaBob, if you add stuff to your mixes, what do you add?



Thanks!!!!

Tim

I don't add anything to tobaccos, but some add a little vanilla, caramel, chocolate, or AP.

 

[Heabob]

Having a little trouble with the acronyms...

VZ=Vaping Zone?

Thanks, HeaBob!

Yep, you got it...

 

[Heabob]

Please help if you can...

Is there anyone watching this thread who uses TFA RY4 Double at more than 15% strength?

I'm up to 15% and still can't taste it. I went up in 1% increments starting at 5%.

Thank you!

That's the other reason I don't like TFA Tobaccos, takes too much flavoring to taste it.
Most of the VZ-SC alcohol-based tobaccos only need like 2-3%.
And a lot of Inawera tobaccos are the same.

However, TFA may require some steep time, as I've heard the M-type takes a month before it tastes good.
Can you taste anything if you drip some RY4 (from the flavor bottle) on your finger?
15% seems awful high for any tobacco flavor though.

 

[TheKiwi]

Hi all! So I finally got the following in today:

1.5L VT 100mg nic
1L VG
1L PG
15 different TFA flavors.
30min UC

I've never ever done DIY before, and today's gonna be my first couple of attempts.

I'm thinking it makes sense to start off with a few single flavor juices in 10mls, such as

1) green apple
2) grape
3) double ry4

I know different brands of flavorings do better at different percentages, and I was wondering if 10% seems about right for the above 3?


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[Paul.K]

These are general for single flavor TFA mix. I'd start low and work your way up.

Grape Jolly Rancher 8% - 10%
Grape Juice Flavor 8%-12%
Green Apple Flavor 12-20%
RY4 Double Flavor 5%-15%

 

[TheKiwi]

These are general for single flavor TFA mix. I'd start low and work your way up.

Grape Jolly Rancher 8% - 10%
Grape Juice Flavor 8%-12%
Green Apple Flavor 12-20%
RY4 Double Flavor 5%-15%

HA thanks for answering a noob. Appreciate it!


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[Paul.K]

No worries bud. I'm still pretty new myself. Only been doing DIY for about 7 months now.

 

[Mone415]

Hi all! So I finally got the following in today:

1.5L VT 100mg nic
1L VG
1L PG
15 different TFA flavors.
30min UC

I've never ever done DIY before, and today's gonna be my first couple of attempts.

I'm thinking it makes sense to start off with a few single flavor juices in 10mls, such as

1) green apple
2) grape
3) double ry4

I know different brands of flavorings do better at different percentages, and I was wondering if 10% seems about right for the above 3?


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Kiwi. What's that in the red package by the UC? Is that to coat those 1ml syringes? Great choice on those syringes btw. I use those like crazy.

 

[TheKiwi]

Kiwi. What's that in the red package by the UC? Is that to coat those 1ml syringes? Great choice on those syringes btw. I use those like crazy.

Nope. I used a clear top coat nail polish to coat my syringes.

That red package contains the Deoxit gold pen. It's for boosting my mech's connectivity


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