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tdtyler

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Experimenting like you are with coffee sounds great. You may discover something great, or be able to rule out a flavor pairing. Either way, you WIN! Some of the best flavorings come from unlikely combinations. These are sometimes called pairings, and it can get weird sometimes. Here are some pairings that have been posted on ECF, and before my time:

First, here's an interesting site: Flavor Profiles that Pair Together in Recipes - Nouveau RawNouveau Raw

Here's the other list I mentioned:

Allspice pairs well with: apples, beets, cabbage, caramel, cardamom, cinnamon, cloves, coriander, ginger, juniper, mace, mustard, nuts, nutmeg, onions, pears, pumpkin, root vegetables, yams.

Sometimes the pairings have a molecular basis, other times, things just taste great together. Taste is the senses at work inside our mouths and on our tongue. Aroma is inside our nose and what we smell. The two combine to create flavor. Flavor is the combination of Taste and Aroma, and only by Trial and Error can we find flavorings that work specifically for us. :2c::toast:

WOW! What a list. I'm astounded.

On that list, Coffee was only mentioned pairing with Almonds, Banana, Chestnut, Cinnamon, Mandarin, Nutmeg, and Orange... Fascinating. I had no idea such a list existed. I see it not as a hard and fast rule, but as a starting guide.

Hmmm... I also thought Espresso might be something to add. I'm thinking very LOW percentages, like under 1.

Any experience with the Sesame, Espresso, or either of the Coffees?

Dang. I should do it tonight, but I want to give that tobacco an overnight before I try it tomorrow. So, tomorrow I might take out one cream. I'll make two small mixes; one with Coffee and one with Espresso. Again, just a touch. Wish I had the sesame now.

For your tobacco recipe, here are some observations. Western and M Type are the most like tobacco in my opinion. The DK, Turkish, Red, and Tobacco are all obviously complex with overtones of sweetness and other stuff. Can't make it all out. So, you're probably right on track with a blend of all of them. HA!

Flailing away here and learning even if by failing!

Tim
 

Bill's Magic Vapor

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Just made 10 ml's of Twinkie. Handed it to the missus. She flipped out! Made another 100 mls real fast. Now I'm vaping it. Made this:

Vanilla Cupcake - 8%
Sweetener - 4%
Bavarian Cream - 4%
Sweet Cream - 4%

I don't really like mixes less than 20% flavoring. Don't know why, LOL, so added 2% to the filler. Thought about adding 2% to the cupcake, and may do it on the next batch. Very good. Better than vanilla custard, I think. The wife said better than a Twinkie too! So, this is going to be a Twinkie night while I watch the Premiere of SOA. Great night! Ciao!
 

Bill's Magic Vapor

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I never wait to try juice. If it's not good immediately, it's not going to be good enough for me. Good can become great. Not good never becomes great.

The second tasting comes after the air bubbles reach the surface and dissipate completely (steeped). Cover and age. Will improve over the next day or two. Eventually, the syrupy, darker, thicker, gooey mix becomes fabulous, but only if it's really good right out of the can. Two cents....
 

Bill's Magic Vapor

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Oh! And thoroughly enjoying the trip.

Like you, there are 4 other family members who are not using analogs. If I can make some good juice and save my kids some money - I'll owe you (Bill) even more.

Thanks!

Tim
I love vaping. It's a wonderful time when your juice goes to the next level! And you are there!!!
 

amoret

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Okay, I'm working on a basic English Toffee with a little extra vanilla (and maybe some butter or cream, but haven't gotten that far yet.) I just got my TFA English Toffee, and in searching this thread I found "English Toffee Flavor 5-17%" and since that is an awfully wide spread, I'm wondering if anyone has any more specific starting suggestions.

I'm looking for rich, not sweet. The one that I had been buying was really good that way. The best I've found in my experiments was Nature's Flavors at about 12% with, so far, about 2% Inawera Vanilla Tahity added. I haven't gotten a butter or cream flavor yet, so that may be added later. I'm also looking at maybe a small amount of EM, but I don't really want it any sweeter.
 

Slots

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Thanks bunches Slots. On another note....I love both Hazelnut and Bavarian Cream. Both very good stand alone flavors but I followed your advice and mixed the two 50/50. Oh my, it is delicious. I added just a hint of Koolada and it is even better. Thank you.

OMG :lol: I think I posted that about a year ago :facepalm:
I'm glad you like it, and have found a way to make it better.
Sometimes "simple" is best
Thanks for the laugh
 

Slots

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Some of the best flavorings come from unlikely combinations.

There is a theory behind that statement... lets see if I can invoke some brain waves here :p
Hope you can stay with me, I'm not a chemist :oops:

Each flavoring is made up of dozens of molecules to create the desired taste, (not real flavors).
Ok,.. lets say you want to have a strawberry/watermelon juice.
So you get your strawberry, with all of it's molecules, and you add it to your watermelon with all it's molecules.
FRESH (important here) you will have a nice strawberry/watermelon juice ...but
What happens is, as soon as you add the PG/VG/NIC changes start to take place, as these molecules have a bigger playground, and start fighting for space in all the extra room.
Maybe the strawberry wins, maybe the watermelon wins, but in any case all these molecules running around will create a THIRD flavor.
So "fresh" it's strawberry/watermelon/ ......steeped, it changes.
The originals will still be there but mutated with a new element created, and added to the mix.
That's why , unless you mix, shake and vape, you may think your flavorings are not up to par, because it "doesn't taste right" next week/month.

I'm a "steeper". All of my juices are at least a month old because I stay well ahead of myself.
This has not only produced some "different', but great tasting juices, it has also created some problems and a lot of "tweaking" :facepalm:

If we were dealing with some honest to gosh squished strawberry's and smashed watermelon, it would be a lot easier. :2c:

Make sense ??
Any hair raising experiences to relate ?? :pop:
 
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mattiem

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OMG :lol: I think I posted that about a year ago :facepalm:
I'm glad you like it, and have found a way to make it better.
Sometimes "simple" is best
Thanks for the laugh

Hehehehehe, yep, I'm kinda late to the thread but read it all. What are you doing to make it even better?
 

Slots

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Slots

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Good to see you too, Since my son passed about 3+ weeks ago, I have felt the need to connect, to write, to share, and one of the ways I have been doing that is spilling my guts on here. I have not used your saline method, which makes perfect sense if the mix is too acidic. It would neutralize the acid. Wonderful advise. (straighten my .... out!).

I'm so sorry to hear that Bill.
My husband lost his son (namesake) in a car accident, and them 6 months later his daughter, so I have some idea of where your at.
My prayers are with you, and I'm sending all the good vibes I can.
Your welcome to "jabber" all you want, it's helping everyone else too.

Yes, the saline changes the PH. I fall back on it when I make a juice, that after steeping, still has a "bite".
I also find it help with some of the fruits ... some not, you just have to experiment
A lot of vapers use lemon juice ( yup, that yellow ball from the grocery store) for their fruits, and vinegar for darks, like chocolates and tobacco's
Those, alone like saline can come in handy for various reasons.
Just for fun, cut a grapefruit in half, sprinkle sugar on one half and salt on the other ...your mouth will tell you all you need to know. :ohmy:

Using my imagination here, but your "...." looks just fine to me ...peak condition :blush:
 

Slots

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What are you doing to make it even better?

Not much, it's a flavor that's just good on it's own and a real switch from everything else.
Don't want everything to taste the same.
I have thought about throwing in the soft background taste of a fruit, like raspberry or cranberry, but haven't tried it yet.
 

TheKiwi

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Bill bill I did it! My awesome delicious coffee vape!

Thanks to someone's advice on just adding a tiny bit of cappuccino to boost the coffee flavor, it's complete! I just tested it today and it's goooood

View attachment 372633

Well damn the picture quality sucked.

Cappuccino 2%
Caramel cappuccino 1 drop per 10ml
Cotton candy (em) 2%
Sweet cream 5%
Vanilla swirl 4%
sweetener 2%

Whoopee!!!
 

sc12

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Most of it will be tfa fruits,blueberry,strawberry,and rasberry.It will also have a vanilla,not sure which one yet,the only flavor that wont be tfa is flavor west yogurt.They are the only one i've seen so far with a yogurt flavor,and it is almost spot on to the taste of the yogurt that is in the taste i'm going for.Any suggestions on which vanilla flavor would come the closest to a vanilla extract like the type used in food?
Would doing your own vanilla extract in pg or vg work out?

eta: nah probably not
 
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Bill's Magic Vapor

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There is a theory behind that statement... lets see if I can invoke some brain waves here :p
Hope you can stay with me, I'm not a chemist :oops:

Each flavoring is made up of dozens of molecules to create the desired taste, (not real flavors).
Ok,.. lets say you want to have a strawberry/watermelon juice.
So you get your strawberry, with all of it's molecules, and you add it to your watermelon with all it's molecules.
FRESH (important here) you will have a nice strawberry/watermelon juice ...but
What happens is, as soon as you add the PG/VG/NIC changes start to take place, as these molecules have a bigger playground, and start fighting for space in all the extra room.
Maybe the strawberry wins, maybe the watermelon wins, but in any case all these molecules running around will create a THIRD flavor.
So "fresh" it's strawberry/watermelon/ ......steeped, it changes.
The originals will still be there but mutated with a new element created, and added to the mix.
That's why , unless you mix, shake and vape, you may think your flavorings are not up to par, because it "doesn't taste right" next week/month.

I'm a "steeper". All of my juices are at least a month old because I stay well ahead of myself.
This has not only produced some "different', but great tasting juices, it has also created some problems and a lot of "tweaking" :facepalm:

If we were dealing with some honest to gosh squished strawberry's and smashed watermelon, it would be a lot easier. :2c:

Make sense ??
Any hair raising experiences to relate ?? :pop:

I hear you. Your strawberry, for example, has over 300 compounds to make up that one single flavor, though there may be only ten components listed as ingredients. Much can be learned, over time, from the examination of the components. TFA publishes all of their mixture components on their site here:

Perfumer's Apprentice

Simply click on the List "tab" of any flavoring to see the underlying components. I believe flavoring is much more an art than a science, though. Understanding flavor chemistry doesn't mean you can make a good flavoring, that's where the art comes into it. I rarely spend a lot of time thinking about the molecular structure of our mixes, LOL.

I do understand that blending flavors does result in changes to the underlying solution that affect taste, aroma, and ultimately flavor. We make this whole juice thing way more complicated than it needs to be. It's like making a smoothie in a blender. If we add several different foods, we will be creating different flavorings after blending. Adding a fudge topping to the ice cream makes a chocolate sundae. The sundae is different then than the ingredients we started with individually, and hopefully, even better.

There are really three parts to what is commonly referred to as steeping, as well. There is aeration (breathing), steeping and aging. As long as the juice is not in the light and kept in a cool environment, simply agitating, capping and aging the juice will improve the flavor, in most cases, over time, until flavor maturity. Normally, this shouldn't take more than about a week, and is often quicker, depending on the recipe.

My point about making juice is that good juice is good immediately. It may improve and become great over time, but bad juice, initially, never becomes great in my experience. When I first started, I made juices that required weeks, sometimes, to "improve." Many said this was normal. The actual problem, though, as I was to later learn, was a bad mix, not a steeping/aging deficiency. If I need four weeks for the eggnog to diminish to the point that it doesn't taste bad in my vanilla custard, then what I really have is a recipe/formula failure/error, and not a long steep requirement. This is just my experience. Here's a tutorial on the subject that is short and concise on steeping, breathing, and aging, even if Rip is crazy:



Because the initial flavoring must be good at inception, imho, I always encourage members to test their juice immediately out of the beaker. If it's not good, I recommend trying another recipe. it's just silly to make juice, and then wait a week or two to see if it's any good. I don't want to take a month to make a new vapeable juice. I did do that a few times! When it's good right off the bat, you may have a great juice, but only time will tell. Bad juices never become great, no matter how much time we waste waiting for it to stop tasting bad. Again, that's been my experience time and time again.

We can completely avoid the world of chemistry and molecules in our juice making, make our recipes, aerate (breath) for a short time, cap and place in a cool dark place like a kitchen cabinet (steeping), and then just allow it to age. If you have premixed your flavorings as I do, and allow them to stay in a cool dark place for a while (aging), nothing else will be required. The premixing will allow the final juice mixture (with VG and Nicotine in my case) to reach maturity in hours to perhaps a day or two on the outside, and far quicker than completely mixing everything together and allowing the nicotine to oxidize, making the juice darker and darker over time, even reducing the flavor and nicotine strength.

That being said, I know of no juice that won't benefit from time (steeping and aging), perhaps a week, to improve, and reach maturity. Premixing of flavor bases does this, as well. I generally will shake the bottle for 30 seconds, allow it to breath until the air bubbles dissipate on the surface (maybe an hour?), then cap and age in a cool dark place. That's really all that is required. I don't heat, or use ultrasound, lasers, cavitation, or a thermal micro shaker platform. It is simply not necessary. This is a hobby for me, and vaping is something I took up in 2009 to stop smoking. :2c:
 

Bill's Magic Vapor

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Bill bill I did it! My awesome delicious coffee vape!

Thanks to someone's advice on just adding a tiny bit of cappuccino to boost the coffee flavor, it's complete! I just tested it today and it's goooood

View attachment 372633

Well damn the picture quality sucked.

Cappuccino 2%
Caramel cappuccino 1 drop per 10ml
Cotton candy (em) 2%
Sweet cream 5%
Vanilla swirl 4%
sweetener 2%

Whoopee!!!

Wonderful news. Your juice is taking off! That's a good feeling. Congrats!
 

Bill's Magic Vapor

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That's quite a production line you have going :blink:
Do you think it will turn into a "HOBBY"
In all honesty it looks very similar to my lab, but much better organized.
It was so easy to just buy a pack of cigs in the good o'days ....but not near as much fun.

I don't feel like I had enough toys as a child.....
 

jensy

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O.k next question Bill . I have read so much stuff and I do try to keep in mind about what you said about lot of bad info out there however , I keep reading people saying not to use sweetener because you will lose flavor over time so do you find this to be true? Or perhaps they are talking about EM and not sucralose .
 
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