The Flavor Apprentice Flavoring Thread

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

I know. Every time I get on here and read about different juices, my TFA bill goes up as well. A request by a vendor for a private label tobacco Thursday resulted in an $85 bill today. Here's what I'm thinking about a signature tobacco:

RY4 - 2%
M Type - 2%
Turkish - 2%
Black Honey - 2%
Bavarian Cream - 2%
Caramel - 3%
Sweetener - 3%
Vanilla Bourbon - 3%
Hazelnut - 3%
Smooth - 2%

So, this has several of the preferred tobacco flavorings in it, so probably many tobacco flavor lovers will find something to like about it. Then accentuate the more flavorful (imho) ingredients, i.e., the caramel and vanilla/Bavarian Cream, the nuttiness of hazelnut (maybe), and Sweetener, of course. A 20 something percent juice that I'll have to flavor to taste when my supplies come in. I have a lot of old tobaccos from a couple of years ago, but they're from MFS, and I don't really use them anymore. My old favorites were Red Lights (USA light), and Desert Ship (Turkish). Won't be able to tell you anything definitive until we get the mixes going in the Lab. The smooth should make a nice thick rounded blend of the tobaccos, while the nuanced flavors will add some depth and body and interest. Might be pretty good. Likely a good start...

Again, mixing by drops (1 drop = 1%), it's fairly easy to test this out. I will try and find the sweet spot of the tobaccos before I begin the mix. That's always the first step, but I believe 6 - 8% tobacco flavoring is pretty normal. So, we shall see.

Ok, I made this today after my flavors came in from TFA. It's been two years since I vaped tobacco. First impression was like punch in the mouth: SMOKE. That passed quickly and moved immediately to DIRTY ASHTRAY flavor. Handed to the missus (she hasn't vape tobaccos in 2 years either). You know how you wish you could freeze the look on people's face? Priceless to me, emoting HORROR to her. So far, so good. I'm on to something, I think. Ran up the stairs to daughter's room, she vaped, and the look was the opposite of the wife's. She liked it (she smokes). Then she said she thought it was pretty good. How does it taste Megan? I can taste a lot of different flavors, she says. Then she goes on to explain how she could vape this all day, why fruits and desserts are not her thing (why she doesn't vape all the time), but that she could vape this......this.....tobacco flavor.

How am I going to make a signature tobacco when it tastes just terrible to me?

Ok, I made up three variations, put them in 4 ml bottles and sent with the daughter to canvas her friends to see what they think. This is going to be tough to narrow the gap. Any suggestions?

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

I need to pick up some sour for my juices

Also tartaric acid would be good here for the sour note. A little goes a long way.

 

[artv61]

Bill,it seems to me either you have what you were looking for or you have a bit to many different tobaccos in there. I think with the nut caramel and vanilla you could eliminate the ry4. thats my opinion.I have found that with tobaccos either it should be the dirty ashtray or the flavored cigar pipe tobacco taste. I believe the m-type turkish and blk honey would be more than enough and then its just whatever undertone your wanting ,like cherry creamy or fruitish,they are a hard all around sell and thats why i believe there are so many brands of cigs. evryones taste is different. Oh and dont forget you have the menthol too.
Just my

 

[renilyn]

Ok, I made this today after my flavors came in from TFA. It's been two years since I vaped tobacco. First impression was like punch in the mouth: SMOKE. That passed quickly and moved immediately to DIRTY ASHTRAY flavor. Handed to the missus (she hasn't vape tobaccos in 2 years either). You know how you wish you could freeze the look on people's face? Priceless to me, emoting HORROR to her. So far, so good. I'm on to something, I think. Ran up the stairs to daughter's room, she vaped, and the look was the opposite of the wife's. She liked it (she smokes). Then she said she thought it was pretty good. How does it taste Megan? I can taste a lot of different flavors, she says. Then she goes on to explain how she could vape this all day, why fruits and desserts are not her thing (why she doesn't vape all the time), but that she could vape this......this.....tobacco flavor.

How am I going to make a signature tobacco when it tastes just terrible to me?

Ok, I made up three variations, put them in 4 ml bottles and sent with the daughter to canvas her friends to see what they think. This is going to be tough to narrow the gap. Any suggestions?

Bill,

After going from Newport (25ish years) to Cheyenne Vanilla and Exotic Berry cigars to vaping - I must say I simply hate the smell/taste of any sort of tobacco (Blu, Vuse, Juice-and of course ANY analog tobacco).

However, people like my FIL... he's really really hooked on analogs and I believe that the ONLY way I'm going to be able to get him to look at vaping and get away from killing himself is to find a terrific tobacco flavor he feels substitutes the analogs. So please keep this man who means tons to me and my family in mind, and the ones that are just like him out there that need to quit. Maybe you can get to be the one that comes up with the flavor(s) that saves lives for him and those like him!

Perhaps those thoughts will inspire you [emoji4] From what I've read... You are amazingly talented, I think you can find a way!



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[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Bill,it seems to me either you have what you were looking for or you have a bit to many different tobaccos in there. I think with the nut caramel and vanilla you could eliminate the ry4. thats my opinion.I have found that with tobaccos either it should be the dirty ashtray or the flavored cigar pipe tobacco taste. I believe the m-type turkish and blk honey would be more than enough and then its just whatever undertone your wanting ,like cherry creamy or fruitish,they are a hard all around sell and thats why i believe there are so many brands of cigs. evryones taste is different. Oh and dont forget you have the menthol too.
Just my

You could be right. I may never know since I can't detect a good flavoring myself. I will test these in the real world though to determine if that is the case, though. Could be a while before I know the answer to that from "the market." Thanks for the input!

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Bill,

After going from Newport (25ish years) to Cheyenne Vanilla and Exotic Berry cigars to vaping - I must say I simply hate the smell/taste of any sort of tobacco (Blu, Vuse, Juice-and of course ANY analog tobacco).

However, people like my FIL... he's really really hooked on analogs and I believe that the ONLY way I'm going to be able to get him to look at vaping and get away from killing himself is to find a terrific tobacco flavor he feels substitutes the analogs. So please keep this man who means tons to me and my family in mind, and the ones that are just like him out there that need to quit. Maybe you can get to be the one that comes up with the flavor(s) that saves lives for him and those like him!

Perhaps those thoughts will inspire you [emoji4] From what I've read... You are amazingly talented, I think you can find a way!



Sent from some mobile device I have using Tapatalk - it's the way of the day!

You know flavor may be subjective, but good juice is a matter of most people just thinking it's pretty good, regardless of what I think. I will only be able to tell, when enough people sample the stuff to get a feel for the juice. time will tell. Thanks for the encouragement!

 

[renilyn]

You know flavor may be subjective, but good juice is a matter of most people just thinking it's pretty good, regardless of what I think. I will only be able to tell, when enough people sample the stuff to get a feel for the juice. time will tell. Thanks for the encouragement!

Agreed. Meant everything I said as well.

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[readeuler]

So, my Wizard Labs order arrived today. I've learned so much already!

Namely, that I need about 10 times the gear I have... More syringes/needles, bottles, and atomizers, to be exact. I figured I'd save money making my own so I could buy more hardware. Instead, I need more hardware to making testing my own easier! A single dripper and a Kayfun is not enough, by a long shot...

I also learned that my flavoring choices weren't very well orchestrated. I just grabbed flavors I was interested in, without thinking in terms of recipes, or at least blending 2 flavors. So now I have some single fruits (Raspberry, Blackberry), a mixed fruit or two, (Lemon Lime, Rainbow Drops and Grape Candy if those count), and Dulce de Leche as my only cream (a few other random flavorings too, like Champagne). They were out of some good stuff, like Sweet Cream and Strawberry, but I definitely should have considered some other creams or things to combine.

I found Blackberry is an acceptable standalone, and I'll be attempting a semi-chocolatey peppermint menthol shortly with Chocolate (Clear). That'll be good enough while I taste more flavors I received, and think about how I could possibly combine some of what I've got. A really bad taste test is quite the experience, I need a break!

 

[BigLungs]

If you just make them on their own and dial each individual flavor in, you can then take those already made single mixes and combine them together at varying ratios. This will help you with complex mixes down the road since you have already gotten a feel for how they play together.

 

[E_Cig Vicious]

I think I have my Blueberry Vanilla Cake pretty close. At this point I am going to let it steep for a day or two and see if the flavors meld together better, but this is so close, and good as it is, that I think it is a winner (to me!)

Blueberry 8%
Vanilla cake 11%
Vanilla Swirl 6%
Bavarian Cream 3%
Cotton Candy 4%

Soooooo close I can taste it..

I belong to several groups on Facebook about DIY. Just more resources and ideas. In one group they posted a web site that is working on a list of flavor descriptions. This is not just TFA flavors, so I ran it by Bill and he said to go ahead and post. TFA does not have all the flavors we might want, and I know from my small experience there are variations in flavors between companies for flavors with the same name. Thought perhaps others would find this useful. From what I understand it is a work in progress, but already a good resource.

http://www.reddit.com/r/DIY_eJuice/comments/2ehekc/master_flavor_reviews_and_tasting_notes/

Happy mixing!

Hi everyone!!! I missed the forums

With that profile may I suggest making your cream a combo platter of Bavarian and Sweet Cream. If you think 3% is enough cream then an example would be 2% SC 1% BC. Sweet cream has a buttery smell and taste over the Bavarian and I very much enjoy mixing the two in recipes like cakes and custards. I have no idea what will help make your concoction spot on but this is my preference and after a lot of reading tonight I see Bill's as well lol
You also mentioned waiting days to steep and see if it melds together. No doubt recipies like this will develop over time but maybe Smooth say a drop in 10ml if the steep doesn't bring you where you wanted. Also, other attributes like better mouth feel as well. Just a suggestion.

 

[E_Cig Vicious]

I know. Every time I get on here and read about different juices, my TFA bill goes up as well. A request by a vendor for a private label tobacco Thursday resulted in an $85 bill today. Here's what I'm thinking about a signature tobacco:

RY4 - 2%
M Type - 2%
Turkish - 2%
Black Honey - 2%
Bavarian Cream - 2%
Caramel - 3%
Sweetener - 3%
Vanilla Bourbon - 3%
Hazelnut - 3%
Smooth - 2%

So, this has several of the preferred tobacco flavorings in it, so probably many tobacco flavor lovers will find something to like about it. Then accentuate the more flavorful (imho) ingredients, i.e., the caramel and vanilla/Bavarian Cream, the nuttiness of hazelnut (maybe), and Sweetener, of course. A 20 something percent juice that I'll have to flavor to taste when my supplies come in. I have a lot of old tobaccos from a couple of years ago, but they're from MFS, and I don't really use them anymore. My old favorites were Red Lights (USA light), and Desert Ship (Turkish). Won't be able to tell you anything definitive until we get the mixes going in the Lab. The smooth should make a nice thick rounded blend of the tobaccos, while the nuanced flavors will add some depth and body and interest. Might be pretty good. Likely a good start...

Again, mixing by drops (1 drop = 1%), it's fairly easy to test this out. I will try and find the sweet spot of the tobaccos before I begin the mix. That's always the first step, but I believe 6 - 8% tobacco flavoring is pretty normal. So, we shall see.

Ok, I made this today after my flavors came in from TFA. It's been two years since I vaped tobacco. First impression was like punch in the mouth: SMOKE. That passed quickly and moved immediately to DIRTY ASHTRAY flavor. Handed to the missus (she hasn't vape tobaccos in 2 years either). You know how you wish you could freeze the look on people's face? Priceless to me, emoting HORROR to her. So far, so good. I'm on to something, I think. Ran up the stairs to daughter's room, she vaped, and the look was the opposite of the wife's. She liked it (she smokes). Then she said she thought it was pretty good. How does it taste Megan? I can taste a lot of different flavors, she says. Then she goes on to explain how she could vape this all day, why fruits and desserts are not her thing (why she doesn't vape all the time), but that she could vape this......this.....tobacco flavor.

How am I going to make a signature tobacco when it tastes just terrible to me?

Ok, I made up three variations, put them in 4 ml bottles and sent with the daughter to canvas her friends to see what they think. This is going to be tough to narrow the gap. Any suggestions?

My brother was a tough one to get off the analogs and wanted that cig taste. At first lol. Then to an RY4/Bavarian cream/Caramel and now anti tobacco. I'll just say if one of your variations had double the Bavarian Cream or 5%+ that's the one I'd prefer. Steeping just increases the intensity so that batch steeped would have to be pretty gnarly.

 

[clnire]

Hi everyone!!! I missed the forums

With that profile may I suggest making your cream a combo platter of Bavarian and Sweet Cream. If you think 3% is enough cream then an example would be 2% SC 1% BC. Sweet cream has a buttery smell and taste over the Bavarian and I very much enjoy mixing the two in recipes like cakes and custards. I have no idea what will help make your concoction spot on but this is my preference and after a lot of reading tonight I see Bill's as well lol
You also mentioned waiting days to steep and see if it melds together. No doubt recipies like this will develop over time but maybe Smooth say a drop in 10ml if the steep doesn't bring you where you wanted. Also, other attributes like better mouth feel as well. Just a suggestion.

Most excellent suggestion E_Cig. Another small batch today using your advice!

I was perusing my recipe file this morning and thought I would post this. These are recipes for what is called "Milk Stone" and "Cake Stone". They are mixed to be used as a % of flavoring in other recipes. I have not tried any of them, but I think a will be making a few and trying them out in recipes. Some of these list other vendor's flavors, but most do use/can use all TFA. I do not know the differences yet as to companies' flavors, so these are just suggestions.

Milchstern/Milkstone
Bavarian Cream 2.5-5%
Coconut Extra 1.25-5%
Sweet Cream .75-5%
Use to add creamy mix to other flavors; mix 0 nic and use it as a % in total flavor

35% cap vanilla custard
25% cap marshmallow
20% tfa bavarian cream
20% fa fresh cream.

27% Bavarian Cream
10% Coconut
14% Marshmallow
35% Vanilla Custard
14% Whipped Cream

10% sweet cream
20% coconut
45% bravarian cream

PG 25%
Bavarian Cream (TFA)45%
Coconut Extra (TFA) 20%
Sweet Cream (TFA) 10%
Use at 8%

35% cap vanilla custard
25% cap marshmallow
25% tfa bavarian cream
15% flavart fresh cream.

Cakestone V2
30% Flavorwest Yellow Cake
30% TFA Vanilla Cupcake
10% TFA Bavarian Cream
15% TFA Marshmallow
15% TFA Cotton candy
Use mixture at 3-5%

30% Flavorwest Yellow Cake
30% TFA Vanilla Cupcake
25% TFA Bavarian Cream
15% TFA Cotton candy

Finally, as for tasting flavors, I use little 510 bridgeless atomizers. They are easy to use, easy to clean (just rinse with hot water and blow through the 510 connector end) and cheap enough. You can get them stateside, but they are much more expensive. I have about a dozen of these, 6 still in packaging because they last a long time. NOTE: if you use a strong flavor in one, just a few hour soak in cheap vodka and a good rinse usually cleans them out.

5 Pcs GS-Bridgeless 3-Hole Colorful Electronic Cigarette Atomizer - Random Color

Happy Mixing!

 

[renilyn]

Finally, as for tasting flavors, I use little 510 bridgeless atomizers. They are easy to use, easy to clean (just rinse with hot water and blow through the 510 connector end) and cheap enough. You can get them stateside, but they are much more expensive. I have about a dozen of these, 6 still in packaging because they last a long time. NOTE: if you use a strong flavor in one, just a few hour soak in cheap vodka and a good rinse usually cleans them out.

5 Pcs GS-Bridgeless 3-Hole Colorful Electronic Cigarette Atomizer - Random Color

Happy Mixing!

THESE have just been moved to the top of my DIY must have list! Since I haven't been over to the MOD side of things, I've only my spinners to use for testing flavors. I was actually going to grab:

http://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10008230/1736701-water-chestnut-style-clearomizer

I found them quite by accident and have a few in my cart. If nothing else - they're damn cute lol

I've never seen the ones that you have local, so I would have to order them - but - I realized that I've no more mini funnel packs, so I have a bit of time to acquire these while I get those lol

Thank you for including the link. I can't wait to get my TFA flavors to work! But, being a baker, I know having the appropriate materials BEFORE you start is imperative.... Not to mention, hearing some of the nightmare stories here when folks don't..... ::SHIVER:: No thanks! LOL

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[clnire]

I still have several ego twist/spinners I use and the bridgeless attys work great on them!

Another note - drip about 5-6 drops and let sit a few minutes. Drip about 2-3 more drops and vape away. You will start to get an off taste when you need more drops. You will know. I also donot dry burn them. Just a good rinse is all they need.

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

My brother was a tough one to get off the analogs and wanted that cig taste. At first lol. Then to an RY4/Bavarian cream/Caramel and now anti tobacco. I'll just say if one of your variations had double the Bavarian Cream or 5%+ that's the one I'd prefer. Steeping just increases the intensity so that batch steeped would have to be pretty gnarly.

Thank you for the suggestions. One of the variations had 6% Bavarian Cream. Update:

Ok, daughter Megan took this mix (plus a few variations) to a bunch of 20 something friends:


RY4 Double - 2%
M Type - 2%
Turkish - 2%
Black Honey - 2%
Bavarian Cream - 2%
Caramel - 3%
Sweetener - 3%
Vanilla Bourbon - 3%
Hazelnut - 3%
Sweet Cream - 2%

It was a big hit with all. Whisky Tango Foxtrot? This stuff is horrible! Now I have to make more test batches for vendor friends. Will keep you posted.

 

[clnire]

Love that Whisky Tango Foxtrot. Gonna remember that one!

 

[b.m.]

It was a big hit with all. This stuff is horrible!

That's when you know you hit perfect,when it's that bad to a non smoker but a smoker likes it,then you hit gold haha.I switched from smoking to vaping back in march,my wife is still a smoker,and here about a month ago she switched to a different brand than what we both used to smoke.She nagged me for a good 3 hours to take a puff just to see how good this new brand tasted,i almost puked that thing tasted so horrible haha,it was right then that i realized just how bad tobacco tastes,but being a smoker still,she thought it was the best taste ever.I may have to make a batch of that for her,maybe that will be close enough to get her to make the switch.

 

[b.m.]

So, my Wizard Labs order arrived today. I've learned so much already!

Namely, that I need about 10 times the gear I have... More syringes/needles, bottles, and atomizers, to be exact. I figured I'd save money making my own so I could buy more hardware. Instead, I need more hardware to making testing my own easier! A single dripper and a Kayfun is not enough, by a long shot...

I also learned that my flavoring choices weren't very well orchestrated. I just grabbed flavors I was interested in, without thinking in terms of recipes, or at least blending 2 flavors. A really bad taste test is quite the experience, I need a break!

How many syringes do you have now?When i first started,i used pipettes,and i bought 1 for every flavor i bought,this quickly became a pain,sorting them all to find the one that matched the flavor i was using,etc.,so i switched to syringes,and now i only have to deal with a few.I have 1 dedicated for my nic.,1 for pg,1 for vg,and i keep 6 for flavors.It is nice to have alot at hand,but you only really need a couple,just keep a cup of water near and rinse out between flavors,it alot cheaper that way.I bought 10 off ebay for less than $5,but you can get a box of 100 for around $12 on there as well.Bottles are my big thing,seems i never have enough haha.Every once in a while i have to go through my stash of juices that are sitting and find the ones that aren't that good,then dump and clean the bottles so i can try some new stuff.I've been doing this alot recently due to all these good recipes being posted in this thread recently.

Like you,i did the same with flavors when i started,i had no thought about recipes,so i bought the ones that i thought would be good by themselves,most are not haha.One good thing though,is i have accumulated alot by doing that,that are used in several recipes such as the different fruits,creams,etc. so it worked out ok,just took me a while to get there,until i finally started ordering based off of recipes i want to try.

As for testing,yes more makes it easier,but i use 2 drippers for initial tasting.I keep them both wicked with silica,that way after i use each to test a flavor,i can go to the sink,rinse them out,and dry burn them,then i'm ready to test a couple more.Keep in mind though,i only make maybe 5-6 recipes at a time though,so i'm not going through 50+ mixes at a time,in that case yes i would need alot more haha.

And yes,i completely agree,a bad taste test can be one of the worst experiences you will ever have in diy haha.I started out with the tobacco flavors,and i had 2 in a row that were so foul,they made my stomach churn,i've had some non tobacco flavors that were really bad to though haha.

 

[renilyn]

Love that Whisky Tango Foxtrot. Gonna remember that one!

Hahaha me tooooooooooooooooooo! Especially living in a military town with a LEO hubby lol

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[renilyn]

How many syringes do you have now?When i first started,i used pipettes,and i bought 1 for every flavor i bought,this quickly became a pain,sorting them all to find the one that matched the flavor i was using,etc.,so i switched to syringes,and now i only have to deal with a few.I have 1 dedicated for my nic.,1 for pg,1 for vg,and i keep 6 for flavors.It is nice to have alot at hand,but you only really need a couple,just keep a cup of water near and rinse out between flavors,it alot cheaper that way.I bought 10 off ebay for less than $5,but you can get a box of 100 for around $12 on there as well.

I recently picked up this deal:

http://m.ebay.com/itm/141330914456

20 seemed to be overkill-but it was 1 or 20 lol Spares are always a good thing in my house. I've had a closed head injury, so my hands shake. Which means that stuff ends up on the floor frequently lol Clean Spares will probably be welcome lol

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