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Nic-holio

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The ecigvape one lets you enter drops per ml for each different addition to the recipe. Which is good because I came up with WIDELY different numbers per ml on PG and VG -- broad dropper tip (like the droppers on TFA flavor bottles) 37 drops per ml with PG, 27 drops per ml with VG; with the narrow dropper tips (like those in INW flavor bottles), PG is 55 drops per ML, VG 35 drops per ml.

Seeing this huge disparity between Pg and VG and even the type of dropper tip being used, I've stopped measuring anything in drops; I use my 1ml syringes, so I can measure to .xx, which will have to be close enough; it's the only possible way I've found to preserve proportionate measurements. And before anyone suggests it, I'm not going to buy an expensive scale so I can measure by weight. I have a hard enough time with the measurements I currently deal with, I'm not going to complicate it further by introducing a different scale of measure, and I'm DIYing, partly, to save money, not spend more.

Andria

Yep - I've been using the ecigvape one so far. I like it because you it will let you specify drops per ml for your VG, PG, nic base, and each flavoring. Although, I admit the only reason I've been very worried about that is getting completely accurate percentages <-> drops for number of drops of each ingredient used while taste-testing. Especially with VG being so much higher viscosity - it only takes 23 drops out of the same droppers to drop 1ml into a calibrated 10ml graduated cylinder, 37 for PG. It may end up not being very important in the long run, I've only used the drop testing to develop one recipe so far. Bill mentioned at some point in this thread that the main thing this is for is to establish the ratios / percentages between the flavorings.

Checking on what is the standard closure size for Specialty Bottle's 1oz bottles. Again, your 1oz bottles may need a different cap but I bet they're the same. Will post again here in a sec.
 

Bill's Magic Vapor

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Yep - I've been using the ecigvape one so far. I like it because you it will let you specify drops per ml for your VG, PG, nic base, and each flavoring. Although, I admit the only reason I've been very worried about that is getting completely accurate percentages <-> drops for number of drops of each ingredient used while taste-testing. Especially with VG being so much higher viscosity - it only takes 23 drops out of the same droppers to drop 1ml into a calibrated 10ml graduated cylinder, 37 for PG. It may end up not being very important in the long run, I've only used the drop testing to develop one recipe so far. Bill mentioned at some point in this thread that the main thing this is for is to establish the ratios / percentages between the flavorings.

Checking on what is the standard closure size for Specialty Bottle's 1oz bottles. Again, your 1oz bottles may need a different cap but I bet they're the same. Will post again here in a sec.
Correct!

I mix all my juices by volume using syringes, never by drops. I do taste test by drops and that also works very well. The main reason to do the 100DT taste test is to be able to quickly adjust the mix over and over to find recipe, not to be super accurate, which you cannot be unless you use weight, regardless. As it turns out for me, close is close enough, and the only real way to get perfect mixes is to make liters at a time, not a few mils at a time. So, close is close enough, and the main thing is taste and repeatability, not perfect mixes out to three digits, because it is hardly possible, nor desirable. This is home brew, not a chemistry laboratory Just use the same measurements for everything, i.e., syringes, etc., and you'll be just fine. I buy syringes by the box, and in two years have never had to reorder any sizes (1, 3, 10, 30, 60 and 100 mils). As long as you are consistent you can easily replicate any recipe, and easily adjust any 100DT test into a final replicable recipe. I wouldn't get too caught up with drops, as they are not reliable, and really only useful for taste testing, and as you mentioned, establishing flavoring percentages and ratios, more or less. Keep it simple is the best way, imho. :2c: :toast: :D

:2cool: :vapor:
 

Nic-holio

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oh about the scales... I just saw one on Amazon I might pick up to do fully-accurate menthol, citric acid, etc. solutions -- where the ingredients are crystals or other solids and a liquid like PG. hard to do that completely accurately using scoops etc.

$17.22 shipped with Prime, good reviews from people typing something intelligent (not just "OMG this is the best scale ever" hype/noise) and it's the highest rated one I can find that does 0.1gram graduations and can be calibrated. (you have to buy a 1kg standard weight to calibrate it... $19.93 shipped). I just ordered one:

Smart Weigh Digital Pro Pocket Scale with Back-Lit LCD Display, Silver

Also - the Specialty Bottle 1oz bottle uses a 20/400 cap type, and a couple other 1oz cobalt blue bottles I've looked at today do too.

I don't fully understand the numbers but the 20 part is 20mm neck size. Not sure what the 400 is. Anyway, as long as you are pretty sure your 1oz boston round bottles have the same type closure, the ones I looked up for you at Fillmore should work.
 
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Nic-holio

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Thanks Bill. It makes sense. I had actually thought about that accuracy with syringes thing a few years back (when I was still just thinking about getting into DIY someday but not actually doing it yet) and thought about it the other night when I mixed my wife up another bottle of Snowy Day. ie, the issue of a slight measuring error with a syringe. Being .1ml, or .05ml off on a flavor could be gigantic in how it tastes if you're only mixing up a 10ml bottle (especially with some flavors that you shouldn't use more than 1-2% of anyway) -- but if you're mixing up 100ml, or 500ml of it - being .1ml off is far less critical.

Good argument for making larger bottles of something once you have a good recipe!
 

Sgt.Rock

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Official conversion is

1 Gram = 15.4323584 Grains
1 Grain = 0.06479891 Grams

I just swag it for mixing crystals...I mix 30 ml at a time when I mix and so I'm looking for 3 grams--I just add 46 grains and call it close enough ;)

Not quite as crucial as your measurements need to be when handloading eh?
 

AndriaD

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Also - the Specialty Bottle 1oz bottle uses a 20/400 cap type, and a couple other 1oz cobalt blue bottles I've looked at today do too.

I don't fully understand the numbers but the 20 part is 20mm neck size. Not sure what the 400 is. Anyway, as long as you are pretty sure your 1oz boston round bottles have the same type closure, the ones I looked up for you at Fillmore should work.

Hmmm... well I'm just more confused that ever. On the dropper tops, they show 20/400 for both 1oz and 2oz, which makes no sense, because 1oz and 2oz bottles have different size tops -- not a big diff, but the droppers I have (from hobby lobby) fit the 60ml (2oz) bottles perfectly, but are too big for the 30ml bottles.

Since I'm interested in the cone tops instead of dropper tops, it seems impossible to find cone tops that I *know* will fit -- on the 20/400 cone top page, they show as "related product" the 1oz bottle -- so it seems those would fit my 30ml bottles -- but they don't have a page where they show 60ml (2oz) bottles as the "related product" -- the 22/400 shows a 4oz bottle, and the 24/400 show an 8oz bottle. So where are the caps for 60ml bottles? If they think the 20/400 will fit both, that's impossible, because these bottles don't have the same size top.

Maybe I'll see if wizlabs could sell me some cone caps for 30ml bottles.

Andria
 

Bill's Magic Vapor

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Thanks Bill. It makes sense. I had actually thought about that accuracy with syringes thing a few years back (when I was still just thinking about getting into DIY someday but not actually doing it yet) and thought about it the other night when I mixed my wife up another bottle of Snowy Day. ie, the issue of a slight measuring error with a syringe. Being .1ml, or .05ml off on a flavor could be gigantic in how it tastes if you're only mixing up a 10ml bottle (especially with some flavors that you shouldn't use more than 1-2% of anyway) -- but if you're mixing up 100ml, or 500ml of it - being .1ml off is far less critical.

Good argument for making larger bottles of something once you have a good recipe!

Exactly!

Bigger batches are always going to be closer to final measurement than small batches. All the juice makers think in terms of gallons, not 15 ml bottles, for example, for increased accuracy. Smaller batches are going to have a higher margin for error, but using the same measurement devices and units of measure is still going to get you very close.

I have a scale, but I never use it. Instead, I just make larger batches and use ml via syringe. It gets close enough for my purposes, and should be sufficient for the average user. Commercial is a different animal, using gallons and high quality measurement devices, including weight measurement, should really only come in to play with measurements with crystals, powders, etc. For this reason, I don't mix my own EM's, I buy the Cotton Candy, and I like the results I get with it, not to mention, it is far easier and quicker, not that it's difficult, just more convenient. If was mixing crystals, powders, etc., I would use a scale.

Regarding the citric acid, it is used in such a small amount, that special measurement via scales, etc. is not required. In other words, a pinch is all that is required, not precise measurement. Probably the explanation is more complex than what is actually required to be "close enough," in our mixes. Hope this helps all the new vapers trying to determine how to get their juices to be made consistently, and easily. Use a variety of different sized syringes that match the quanitity of juices you are making. For example, don't use a 60 ml syringe to make 15 ml of juice. For 15 mls, use 1 mil and 3 mil syringes, and you should be fine in your everyday mixes. As I mentioned, I use 1, 3, 10, 30, 60 and 100 ml syringes, and that seems to allow me to get close to the mixes regardless of any questions or concerns about viscosity. Viscosity only plays a role when using drops, and not full bottle mixes. Hope this helps! :2c: :toast: :D

:2cool: :vapor:

Edit: By the way you can buy bottles that use the same caps in 1 ounce and 2 ounce, or different caps, just depends on the source. I had a problem because in past order I didn't pay attention to cap sizes, easily remedied depending entirely on what we choose to order. I have 120 ml bottles that use the same caps as 30 ml bottles, for example. Keeps it a little easier to work with. Primarily I use wide mouth reagent bottles for much of my storage of larger quantities, say over 120 mls:

20140710_121232.jpg20140710_121232.jpg

Good luck! I totally agree with the Sarge on both the sufficient accuracy of syringes for your purposes, and the fact that we can SWAG the use of crystals and powders in our mixes. KISS formula works best for me, not laboratory-like accuracy, which is nearly impossible to achieve consistently outside the lab. Just avoid using drops as a unit of measurement, other than in 100DT's, and you'll be fine!
 
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MsGoddess2U

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Since this is The Flavor Apprentice thread, I'm hoping someone here might could help me. I posted a thread but have gotten no responses yet. I purchased a 30 ml bottle of Coconut, instead of Coconut Candy. The Coconut isn't nasty or anything...it just isn't the Coconut Candy. Does anyone have a recipe to replicate the Coconut Candy from the Coconut? It tastes like the same Coconut flavor but there's other flavors in the Coconut Candy as well and I don't know enough about flavors to identify them...
 

Bill's Magic Vapor

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Since this is The Flavor Apprentice thread, I'm hoping someone here might could help me. I posted a thread but have gotten no responses yet. I purchased a 30 ml bottle of Coconut, instead of Coconut Candy. The Coconut isn't nasty or anything...it just isn't the Coconut Candy. Does anyone have a recipe to replicate the Coconut Candy from the Coconut? It tastes like the same Coconut flavor but there's other flavors in the Coconut Candy as well and I don't know enough about flavors to identify them...

You may be able to replicate it, but I haven't made that particular juice yet. Certainly coconut, sweetener, cream, vanilla would be on my start list. If I had to have coconut candy, though, I'd probably just order it. I actual have 4 oz of that flavoring, but I haven't tried to make it from coconut. Sorry! Good Luck~! :toast: :D

:2cool: :vapor:
 

lirruping

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oh about the scales... I just saw one on Amazon I might pick up to do fully-accurate menthol, citric acid, etc. solutions -- where the ingredients are crystals or other solids and a liquid like PG. hard to do that completely accurately using scoops etc.

$17.22 shipped with Prime, good reviews from people typing something intelligent (not just "OMG this is the best scale ever" hype/noise) and it's the highest rated one I can find that does 0.1gram graduations and can be calibrated. (you have to buy a 1kg standard weight to calibrate it... $19.93 shipped). I just ordered one:

Smart Weigh Digital Pro Pocket Scale with Back-Lit LCD Display, Silver

Also - the Specialty Bottle 1oz bottle uses a 20/400 cap type, and a couple other 1oz cobalt blue bottles I've looked at today do too.

I don't fully understand the numbers but the 20 part is 20mm neck size. Not sure what the 400 is. Anyway, as long as you are pretty sure your 1oz boston round bottles have the same type closure, the ones I looked up for you at Fillmore should work.

I haven't mixed with a scale yet, but from talking to those who do--using one just like the one you linked, in fact--it is quite simple and an incredibly easy clean-up compared with syringes, so I'm looking into it. Apparently tiny glass funnels come in handy and then are the only thing you need to clean at the end.

Not sure where to find those cute little glass funnels yet though. I'll let you know if I figure it out :)
 

disco180

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oh about the scales... I just saw one on Amazon I might pick up to do fully-accurate menthol, citric acid, etc. solutions -- where the ingredients are crystals or other solids and a liquid like PG. hard to do that completely accurately using scoops etc.

$17.22 shipped with Prime, good reviews from people typing something intelligent (not just "OMG this is the best scale ever" hype/noise) and it's the highest rated one I can find that does 0.1gram graduations and can be calibrated. (you have to buy a 1kg standard weight to calibrate it... $19.93 shipped). I just ordered one:

Smart Weigh Digital Pro Pocket Scale with Back-Lit LCD Display, Silver

Also - the Specialty Bottle 1oz bottle uses a 20/400 cap type, and a couple other 1oz cobalt blue bottles I've looked at today do too.

I don't fully understand the numbers but the 20 part is 20mm neck size. Not sure what the 400 is. Anyway, as long as you are pretty sure your 1oz boston round bottles have the same type closure, the ones I looked up for you at Fillmore should work.

When mixing by weight, it would be in your best interest to use a scale that measures 0.01 instead of .0.1 increments. It is in all the threads about mixing by weight. I use a scale and have never looked back. 0.1 works but the measurement of liquid needs the 0.01 precision.
 

MsGoddess2U

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You may be able to replicate it, but I haven't made that particular juice yet. Certainly coconut, sweetener, cream, vanilla would be on my start list. If I had to have coconut candy, though, I'd probably just order it. I actual have 4 oz of that flavoring, but I haven't tried to make it from coconut. Sorry! Good Luck~! :toast: :D

:2cool: :vapor:

WOW...maybe I wasn't so far off with my thinking after all! I have only been doing this for a month or so. Thank you for your input. Can't wait for a few extra minutes so I can give it a shot.
 

Nic-holio

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Thanks BigLungs and Disco. You guys probably saved me some grief here. Was able to get the order cancelled. The .01g scale in the same price range had problems noted in the reviews when people tried to calibrate them. So I'm going to forego buying a digital scale and either use my RCBS scale for measuring dry ingredients like Sgt. Rock suggested, or just wing it with measuring scoops/spoons. I don't need to spend a lot of $$$ on a lab-grade scale to measure dry ingredients a few times a year. :)

Also, not knocking syringes at all - they're mainly what I'm using. I probably should have explained what I meant about error. Sometimes when you draw liquid up into the syringe you end up with an air bubble around part of the plunger stopper where it's hard to get a good read of how much liquid is in there. This happened to me the other night. I knew I could have emptied the syringe back into the flavor bottle to "reset" the syringe and re-drawn, but didn't want to do that, so what I'm saying is, I know that measurement was a smidge off. And that that smidge would be even less likely to matter if I had been mixing a very large bottle of liquid.
 
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lirruping

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I haven't mixed with a scale yet, but from talking to those who do--using one just like the one you linked, in fact--it is quite simple and an incredibly easy clean-up compared with syringes, so I'm looking into it. Apparently tiny glass funnels come in handy and then are the only thing you need to clean at the end.

Not sure where to find those cute little glass funnels yet though. I'll let you know if I figure it out :)

I didn't look closely enough at the scale you posted, but my information also says (as others have posted)that you need a scale that goes down to 0.01 (easy to mix up with .1!) This one, for about 15 dollars shipped, is the one I'm considering as it is used by some fellow diy mixers with success:

Amazon.com: Horizon Ds-19 Digital Pocket Scale, Precision Jewelry Scale, 500g By 0.01g: Digital Kitchen Scales: Kitchen & Dining
 

lirruping

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I'm no expert as I have just begun to start making e-juice but from my lurking around here I'm thinking you may do well to also add a "cream" ingredient. I like the sounds of this though and may very well follow your lead on this one. I love amaretto cookies and anything with that almond flavor!!

I'm a huge fan of almond too! I'm just now vaping the mix mentioned before (six days later after adding everything to the TFA Almond Amaretto):

I mixed some TFA Almond Amaretto at 9% alone, just to get a sense of it and it tastes very mild and a bit like plastic or maybe play-doh, to me.

Is this normal for this flavor on its own?

I've just now added:

1% Brown Sugar
1% Sugar Cookie
1% Toasted Almond
3% Belgian Waffle
3% Vanilla Swirl

Hoping for an amaretto cookie effect.


... And it's much better--I would say, "tolerable", but I'm still getting that plasticky taste in the backround. It's potentially a bummer because I bought 30ml of the stuff knowing it's my mom's favorite flavor (in general...she likes almonds, amarettos) but I haven't been able to make it work out yet. Then again, being out 3 or 5 bucks isn't the end of the world. I did get a great discount during a black friday sale :)

Will definitely add some sweet cream to the mix as you suggested and see how that works.
 

lirruping

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I searched this thread for Almond Amaretto (have searched elsewhere online, too, with little joy) and in 5 pages of mentions, there seem to be no recipes posted. If anyone has experience with this flavor and could give me the benefit of their opinions about percentages--any perceptions of it at all would be welcome--I would be grateful.

I just added a rough 2% from a premixed stand-alone Sweet Cream solution I have to my bottle of Plasticky Amaretto Cookie Delight, and...though it is even better, I'm not rid of the Amaretto-Play Doh effect. I think it might be time to nuke it with Maple flavoring, if only to save the bottle. That could work?

OR, maybe acetyl pyrazine starting at .5%? I've used that before on the advice of those wiser than myself to kind of fix darker and nuttier flavors together--with limited success.
 
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