Yum! That's awesome. I can't wait to play with it.
The Flavor Apprentice Flavoring Thread
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Yum! That's awesome. I can't wait to play with it.
You bet. The AP is very optional, and adds a nutty taste, that I like, but it could be skipped. Also, I would keep my eye on the Graham Cracker. Seems like 5% may be better than 4%, but I would keep the mix at 30% or less flavoring, so if I did add the GC, I would likely reduce somewhere else, just depends on the taste and what needs adding or subtracting. Our taste buds know, regardless of the paper recipe's thoughts! Good luck!
I gave the recipe a try last night. It's much better than what I originally had. The butterscotch comes through much nicer and I can taste the pie crust. I loaded it in a crown tank with a stainless coil. I'm not sure if I like it better at 17w or 21w. I would still like to make it more creamy though. I'll have to give it some thought since it's already at 30%. It doesn't help either that I've developed a head cold so I'm not sure that my taste buds are working correctly.
You could knock back a certain percentage of the total flavoring, so the ratio of all the flavoring stays the same, hence the same taste and add a higher percentage of butterscotch or creams. It sounded good in my head. Did that make any sense?
Yes that does make some sense. I'm just not sure if I should sub in more Bavarian cream or something else to get it creamier.
I wonder how that recipe would work with just a touch of fruit for a background flavor instead of butterscotch and minus the sweetener.
Are you thinking what I'm thinkin? Pie base...Bill usually does recipes where you can switch out the flavor for another one. He's kinda smart that way.
Also, I don't use sweetener either
Glad I'm not alone. I can't vape anything that's too sweet.
I would try reducing the Bavarian Cream and substituting marshmallow for greater depth and creaminess. Works in a lot of similar recipes. good luck!
May have missed your question!
Regarding a pie base, I gave the base for one way to make that recipe a couple of years ago. I'll need to find it...Found it:
Pies
French Vanilla - 4%
Sweetener - 4%
Pie Crust - 4%
Graham Cracker - 3%
Brown Sugar - 2%
Butter - 1%
Cinnamon - .5% (OPTIONAL)
Add your fruit (10-15%) or nut (5-10%) to this recipe for a wonderful pie flavoring. I use this with peach, apple, pecan, etc.
Following are a few of my blogs that deal, in part, with pies and different percentages and ingredients, but check all the blogs out (skim) so you can get answers to whatever basic questions you may have (for the new DIY'er). Many of you know these recipes, but if you're new to the world of juice making, this thread has most of the ideas that we know about juice making, and it's one of the few threads where real juice makers share their "secrets" with the rest of the world. I've spoken about why this information has been slow to disseminate before, but thank you all for your generosity in giving away the tricks of the trade, so to speak, so the new DIY'er can try and Succeed in making their own juice. Like riding a bike, but perhaps, a little less obvious....technique-wise. Good luck!
Here's some specifics about different types of juices including pies:
Bill's Magic Vapor;14228238 said:If you want to make great single flavorings with TFA, try adding them to different mixes. They all seemingly improve with supporting flavors. Here's a couple of examples:
Custards
Cotton Candy - 7%
Vanilla Custard - 6%
Bavarian Cream - 6%
Add any single flavoring to this mix for a great custard. You just have to work out the total single flavoring you need, and it's generally going to fall in the 7 - 13% range. I would start at 10% and adjust up or down as required to match taste. I make this with Mango....YUMMY!
Danish
Vanilla Custard - 4%
Brown Sugar - 2%
Butter - 2%
Sweetener - 2%
Waffle - 1%
Sweet Cream - 1-2%
Add almost any fruit to this one for a great Danish. I like it with Peach, but works with apple, lemon, cherry, etc.
Creams
Sweet Cream - 5%
Vanilla Swirl - 5%
Hazelnut - 2-3%
Honey - 3%
Sweetener - 2-3%
This cream recipe is great with fruits and just about anything else. Add single ingredients to this in the 10 - 15% range. I would start at 10% and increase until you find the sweet spot. I use this with strawberry and banana.
Pies
French Vanilla - 4%
Sweetener - 4%
Pie Crust - 4%
Graham Cracker - 3%
Brown Sugar - 2%
Butter - 1%
Cinnamon - .5% (OPTIONAL)
Add your fruit (10-15%) or nut (5-10%) to this recipe for a wonderful pie flavoring. I use this with peach, apple, pecan, etc.
Tarts
Sweet Cream - 4%
Vanilla Swirl - 4%
Cotton Candy - 2%
Sweet and Tart - 2%
Wonderful starburst flavoring and great with cherry, lemon, strawberry, grape (with raspberry or strawberry), orange, etc.
Complex Creams
Add strong flavorings of almost anything to Cream Fantastico to make a delicious Complex Cream. This works particularly good with strong cinnamon's, tarts, etc.
Cream Fantastico
Blueberry Extra - 8%
Strawberries and Cream - 7%
Vanilla Swirl - 5%
Bavarian Cream - 4%
Cotton Candy - 4%
Sweetener - 2%
This cream mixture mixes surprisingly well with everything I've tried so far. In this way, it can "rescue" a bad mix along the way. So, adding this to other mixes can produce some remarkable results. Try adding this to my Red Vines recipe for example. Had one vendor say that mix was the best juice they had ever tasted. I mixed those two specially for her as she wanted a creamy red licorice juice. She claimed she could taste about 8 different flavorings and was blown away. Glad you liked it miss!
Anyway, if you are just starting out, get the flavorings in the recipes above from TFA. Add your favorite fruits, tobaccos, etc. to them and you'll be making great juice in no time. Of course, all recipes must be flavored to individual taste, but these will get you close, and most folks will like them just as they are.
Also, combine fruits too. Add pear and peach, or any other pairings together in the strengths suggested and make up your own magical juice that no one else has. Put your name on your new creation!
Also, you need a good juice mixing calculator:
eJuice Me Up - Best eJuice Calculator
Good luck!
Here some information on general percentages including pies:
Bill's Magic Vapor;14329272 said:Just an observation, but I have had really good success with vanillas and creams and sweetener in my juices. Often times when I hear about members having problems with their mixes, they don't use these supporting flavorings that enhance, brighten, thicken, and enrich their primary flavors. I thought I would go back to my post about how new juice makers can make great juice today and look at some of my rules of thumb. I thought it might be helpful to list primary flavoring(s), creams and vanillas, and sweeteners as a percentage of total mix. So, here's what that looks like:
Custards
Vanillas and Creams - 12%
Sweeteners - 7%
Primaries - 7-13%
Danish
Vanillas and Creams - 6-8%
Sweeteners - 4-8%
Primaries - 7-13%
Secondaries - 3-7%
Creams
Vanillas and Creams - 10%
Sweeteners - 5%
Primaries - 7-13%
Pies
Vanillas and Creams - 5-8%
Sweeteners - 4-6%
Primaries - 7-13%
Secondaries - 4-8%
Tarts
Vanillas and Creams - 8%
Sweeteners - 2-4%
Primaries - 7-15%
Ok, so overall, my favorite juice mixes have a range of uses of these common ingredients, as follows:
Overall Ranges
Vanillas and Creams - 5-12%
Sweeteners - 2-8%
Primaries - 7-15%
Secondaries - 3-8%
Every juice must be custom tweaked to match your taste sensibilities, but there are some rules of thumb that do work for me. My average juice will have vanillas and creams of about 8%, sweeteners of about 4%, Primary flavorings of about 10%, and secondary flavorings of about 5%, or an average overall flavoring of 27%:
Average Flavorings
Vanillas and Creams - 8%
Sweeteners - 4%
Primary Flavorings - 10%
Secondary Flavorings - 5%
Total Overall flavoring in the mix = 27%.
So, these are my rules of thumb, in hindsight, after making about two hundred different juices and over 50 ADV's. This is my happy place. Do you know yours?
Taste IS subjective. What works for me, may not work for you, so you have to develop your own flavorings that suit you. If you do this, you will develop profiles, probably similar to what I have shown here, with differences tailored for your tastes. After a while, the repetitive nature of juice making will cause you to instinctively know how to make juices that are going to match your tastes, as these lists show my tendencies. In so doing, you will find that you can easily design flavorings on paper, that surprisingly well work out upon first mix. It's because you have spent your time in the Vape Lab, finding what works for you. In the end, it's not magical vapor, but rather your experience that will give you the answers you need to make great juice for you, and your friends and loved ones.
Specifics about Pies:
Bill's Magic Vapor;14159318 said:I like pie. Yes, I'm a pie man. Here's some pies that I like:
Lemon Meringue Pie
Lemon - 12%
Marshmallow - 6%
Bavarian Cream - 4%
Cotton Candy - 5%
Graham Cracker - 3%
Dutch Apple Pie ala Mode, my Signature juice:
Apple - 12%
French Vanilla - 4%
Sweetener - 4%
Pie Crust - 4%
Graham Cracker - 3%
Brown Sugar - 2%
Butter - 1%
Cinnamon - .5%
Mango Custard
Mango - 11%
Cotton Candy - 7%
Vanilla Custard - 6%
Bavarian Cream - 6%
Vanilla Custard
Vanilla Custard - 13%
Sweetener - 6%
Vanilla Bean Ice Cream - 3.5%
Egg Nog - 2%
Butter - 2%
Graham Cracker - 1.5%
Chocolate Cream Pie
Milk Chocolate - 5%
Double Chocolate - 4%
Sweetener - 4%
Vanilla Swirl - 5%
Whipped Cream - 3%
Sweet Cream - 3%
Graham Cracker - 6%
Coconut Cream Pie
Vanilla Custard - 6%
Coconut Extra - 5%
Graham Cracker - 4%
Sweetener - 3%
Sweet Cream - 3%
Pie Crust - 2%
Vanilla Swirl - 2%
Peach Cobbler
Juicy Peach - 10%
Sweetener - 4%
Cinnamon - 1%
Brown Sugar - 2%
Graham Cracker - 1.5%
Vanilla Bean - 1%
Sweet Cream - 1%
Key Lime Pie
Key Lime - 13%
Pie Crust - 3%
Sweetener - 3%
Whipped Cream - 2%
Pecan Pie
Pecan - 5%
Graham Cracker - 5%
Pie Crust - 3%
Sweetener - 3%
Brown Sugar - 2%
Vanilla Bourbon - 2%
You can learn as much about pie making studying both the similarities and the differences. I can see the evolution in my juice because I remember making each one, and know a few tricks here and there. For example, if you are going to use pie crust, also use graham cracker. Not always true, but true to me today. There are many others. The patterns are there if you are interested. Another thing, some of these recipes are going on two years old. I could probably improve on them today, and so could you! Ciao!
Thanks,Bill I'll have to leave out the sweetener. My tastebuds are unwilling to vape any juice that's over mildly sweet.
I'll have to leave out the sweetener. My tastebuds are unwilling to vape any juice that's over mildly sweet.
That's awesome Bill! I'm going to have to give that a try too. I just put in another order with BCV. I got some of the biscuit to try and realized that I never got butter. Those along with some chocolates and other stuff should be a good addition to my growing stock.
Instead of starting over, I just added a couple drops of marshmallow to the tank of butterscotch pie. It's an improvement . I'm having a hard time getting used to the pie crust flavor. Even at 3% it is fairly dominant.
not to but in but maybe your getting a bit of the A/P taste, Its very strong even at 1%.
just a thought.
@Bill's Magic Vapor, I have been here for quite a while (years) and although I mostly read and take notes (have your blog bookmarked and recipes/notes in a file), I just want to thank you again for your patience and reposting of things/tips/blog notes you have posted so many times over. People come and go and this is a huge thread with so much valuable information it can be overwhelming for a new DIYer, yet you are always here. Thank you. From a long time fan and follower.
I hadn't thought of that. Maybe I'll try a batch this weekend and add the marshmallow and leave out the AP.
A friend shared this recipe with me and it's really pretty darn good if you like sweet stuff.
Caramel candy 4%
Brown sugar 3%
Butterscotch 4%
French vanilla 2%
VB ice cream 3%
Toasted Almond 1%
AP 1-2 drops per 10ml
As Art mentioned, could be the AP. Easy to check and rule it in or out (2 batches for comparison using 100DT). But, pie crust flavoring is finding the right combination of graham cracker and pie crust flavoring, both, working together. Slight changes to the percentages will change the "dough" flavoring to a rather large range of flavorings. So, perhaps play/tinker with those two to dial it in. I'll bet you can nail this recipe with five 100DT's or less. Once the ingredients are nailed, adjusting the percentages of the different flavorings is all we have to do. Using the 100DT method, the longest it's ever taken me to dial in a juice is two hours (100DT). So, I'm encouraging you to do a wee bit of experimenting here until you fine tune that flavor you're after. Good luck!
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